Author Topic: EM Drive Developments - related to space flight applications - Thread 10  (Read 1167029 times)

Offline Chrochne

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Found some interesting information regarding the High-Q Asymmetric High Energy
Laser Resonators by Dr. Travis Taylor. Paper is from april 2017

AIR COMMAND AND STAFF COLLEGE
AIR UNIVERSITY

MOVEMENT AND MANEUVER IN DEEP SPACE:
A Framework to Leverage Advanced Propulsion


The link for the paper is here http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1042207.pdf
It seems that Dr. Travis Taylor concept is in sights for a while already.

Here is the text from page 28. Please also check pages 29 and 30 for interesting table.

"As a recommended next step for the DoD, Travis Taylor of U.S. Army Space and Missile
Defense Command offers an experimental verification methodology based on increased levels of
EM input energy, up to and including coherent laser energy, which could theoretically produce thrust in the 30 N/kW range (see Table 1, below).

Combined with a rigorous but affordable experimental design on the order of $100-200,000 over 9-
12 months (before analysis and review), Marc Millis and fellow researchers at the Tau Zero Foundation have the requisitebackground and expertiseto move the research forward by creating reliable data

  The Aerospace Corporation, a Federally Funded Research and Development Center (FFRDC) also
has the facilities, expertise, and credibility to accomplish such testing.  DARPA expressed
interest but remains in a holding pattern.


Offline fvlad

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You know perfectly well that we will never understand each other.
I don't know that because I know nothing about you other than that you currently have some problems with your understanding of physics.

Meberbs,
Thank you for supporting our conversation.
You are right, I had problems with understanding physics, right after I heard to Stephen Hawking, who tried to explain to me and everyone that photons have ideal properties to carry real energy without losses.
I'm not a physicist, I'm not a physicist, I'm the mechanical engineer, the radio engineer, Graduate School Research Institute of Intrascopy in Moscow, devices of non-destructive testing and structural analysis.
My profession was not in demand in Russia.
 
Because I'm primarily an experimenter and author of more than 10 inventions, immediately after the excitement and shock from Stephen Hawking, I had the idea of verifying that gravity waves and the physical vacuum medium have a material basis.

I will tell only the history of the experiment that in 2006 I read a lot about the gravitational waves of LIGO and I had an idea that gravitational waves from stars can be recorded with the help of the Casimir effect on the surfaces of bodies. Then I hung on a torsion balance a package of many sheets of writing paper between framed by pairs of frames of the same paper. I assumed that such a package should be a similarity to a gravitational telescope with a flat radiation pattern, and signals from stars should be repeated every day, but I did not see it. But what I saw turned all my ideas about physics.

When I processed the data and plotted the graph for 2 weeks of measurement, I realized that some neutrino matter is registered from the eastern quadrature of the Earth's orbit, obviously those detected by Michelson and Morley.

I assembled the second installation, where I placed just a packet of writing paper without frames. There were practically no variations. But when I replaced it with a package with frames, I got the same variations of large amplitude as in the first setup. Those. The package of paper with frames was approximately 100 times more efficient when receiving gravitational waves than a packet without frames.
August 2006.jpg
https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2806 

These experiments were not intended for publication, they were for me.
So, I realized that:
1. Gravitons exist. Flows of gravitons can be focused and manage them.
2. Gravitational waves can be easily registered with the help of packets of parallel planar bodies. X-ray telescopes can easily be converted into gravitational telescopes.
3. The space is filled with neutrino rigid and superfluid matter.
4. The Earth does not fall from the orbit, not because space is empty, but because there is a soliton toroidal gravitational wave in orbit that pushes the Earth along orbit from the eastern quadrature of the orbit, compensating for the resistance.
I understood many other interesting points.

The most vivid impression of observations on the monitor (using LabView) in real time was stable periodic signals of large amplitude with a period of 72 seconds for several hours. For me it was a enigma. I thought I was on the verge of a great discovery. It is now known to us that such the periodic signals of 72 seconds are recorded in the LISA project in million kilometers from the Earth.

This is now I brought in the essay 2018 https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3080 the simple relationships for the calculation, in practice, of all possible resonance frequencies of gravitational waves.
In addition, In this paper we give the frequencies of the observed emission maxima of 14 known and not yet known, but observed, backgrounds of the medium of the physical vacuum, including the spectrum of radiation of Sun, are given. The maximum of the last calculated low-frequency background coincides with the maximum of the noise spectrum adopted by Monomorphic.
I give for comparison, the graphs of spectra of registered the gravitational-waves in the LISA Pathfinder project and of spectrum of the signal Monomorphic

.
Powered_test03_2 The subtracted signal 36 s end 72 s__comparison with_LISA PhysRevLett_116_231101_pdf_01.jpg
https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3080
Thus, the noise, wich registers Monomorphic is due not to the internal factors of its installation, with which Jamie tries to fight, but is caused by the action of the outer orbital gravitational wave of the Earth. The earth rotates, so it periodically screens the orbital gravitational wave, and the minimum of effect of noise on EM Drive installations should be observed, approximately, from 3 to 9 hours in local solar time.
If it turns out that in this quiet time EM Drive significantly reduces the traction force, then the presence of an external disturbance by a gravitational wave is an indispensable condition for its operation. Then it is necessary to artificially create similar gravitational waves by modulating the EM Drive signal with useful frequencies.
The maximum of the action of the orbital gravitational wave coincides in time with the passage of the infrared spot through the zenith in the sky, which lags behind the sun for 6 hours, or for 90 degrees in the sky.
Dipolnaya_sostavlayushaya_infrarad.jpg
https://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/~wyatt/dgdj01.pdf

I.e. during the maximum of the action of the orbital gravitational wave of the Earth, the Sun is gone beyond the horizon. Infrared spot in the firmament is formed due to the dipolar component of the background zodiacal infrared radiation of the medium of the physical vacuum. The medium moves to Earth from the eastern quadrature of the Earth's orbit with an average speed of 8 km/s, as determined by Michelson and Morley. It is assumed that this constant movement of the physical vacuum medium to Earth forms such a dynamic mass of the Earth that on the Earth's surface is formed a gravitational potential equal to the square of the first cosmic velocity of the Earth of 8 km/s.

Vladimir
«Experience is what allows us to repeat our mistakes only with more finesse!» - Derwood Fincher

Offline fvlad

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Dear Jamie,
The noise with that you are trying to fight is due not to the internal causes of EM Drive installation, but to external causes of the integral action of the Earth's orbital gravitational wave on the surface of your installation. All the surfaces of the installation are weak reflectors of gravitational waves, that is due of the Casimir effect, and they are the formers of the periodic force. Therefore, the most radical means to combat noise is the balanced (mirror) scheme of installing two identical EM drives on opposite sides of the center of rotation of the torsion balance. Then the signal of one EM Drive will be protected from noise.

In order to make sure of my words, you can repeat my experiment with placing on your installation a package of many sheets of writing paper with frames between them and without them. Such a package with frames can be called a "Casimir lattice". I do not think it will take you more than one or two days. But you will make a great discovery of the simple registration of gravitational waves and open the mechanism to control the force of gravity and inertia.

You have already taken the first step to controlling the force of gravity and inertia when you experimented with a vibrator on your installation. After that, I think many were disappointed in EM Drive, judging by the sharp decline in activity on the forum. Do not pay attention to it.

I'm guessing that with the help of a vibrator you formed toroidal gravitational waves of matter inertia that interacted with the de Broglie toroidal gravitational waves of the Earth's gravisphere. The generated toroidal gravitational waves of de Broglie created the thrust force, seeking to uniform motion of matter in the potential well of stability. Thus, you deceived the vibrator's inertia force and controlled it, changing the frequency.

It should be noted that electrical engineering and radio engineering are based on deceiving the force of inertia of electrons, which always tend to be in the potential stability pit of their de Broglie toroidal gravitational waves, with their uniform motion. Let's try to learn how to ménage the forces of gravity and inertia!
It would be useful to continue experiments with the vibrator, but it is necessary to change the frequencies with a small step in frequency in order to detect the maxima, minima and reversal of the force in the dispersion curves of the traction force around the useful resonance frequencies of the medium of the physical vacuum in the Earth's gravisphere.
For example, an analogous phenomenon of dispersion interaction between toroidal gravitational waves of the medium of the physical vacuum of the Earth's gravisphere and toroidal gravitational waves of the acoustic vibrations of the drum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djembe , lead to an auto-tuning of its sound spectrum to the spectrum of the resonance frequencies of toroidal gravitational waves , registered in the project Virgo http://www.virgo-gw.eu/resources/pub/sensitivity.png .
Virgo_02_10_2017___Steelpan_02.jpg

Then you need to turn on the EM Drive. Only the sharing of high-frequency and low-frequency oscillations of modulation or the action of a vibrator, will allow for the implementation of the highly effective one-sided traction force EM Drive. About useful frequencies you can read in my essay 2018
https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3080 .

Vladimir
«Experience is what allows us to repeat our mistakes only with more finesse!» - Derwood Fincher

Online meberbs

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I will tell only the history of the experiment that in 2006 I read a lot about the gravitational waves of LIGO and I had an idea that gravitational waves from stars can be recorded with the help of the Casimir effect on the surfaces of bodies. Then I hung on a torsion balance a package of many sheets of writing paper between framed by pairs of frames of the same paper. I assumed that such a package should be a similarity to a gravitational telescope with a flat radiation pattern, and signals from stars should be repeated every day, but I did not see it.
Several points:
-Casmir effect is only between conducting surfaces, it doesn't happen between pieces of paper
-your assumption that your device is a gravitational waves antenna with a specific pattern is baseless and also very wrong.
-Even if you used thin foil sheets to have a casmir effect, your device is too small compared to the wavelength of gravitational waves (plus their tiny magnitude by the time they get to Earth) that it simply could not ever detect gravitational waves, even if there was a principle under which it could do so in theory.

When I processed the data and plotted the graph for 2 weeks of measurement, I realized that some neutrino matter is registered from the eastern quadrature of the Earth's orbit, obviously those detected by Michelson and Morley.
You apparently don't have a clue what neutrinos are. They have no relation to the Michelson-Morley experiment, in fact the existence of neutrinos was not theorized or detected by any experiment until after Michelson and Morley were both dead for decades. They also would not have anything to do with your experiment. they barely interact with most matter at all, because they are uncharged and do not interact via electromagnetic force.

So, I realized that:
Your conclusions are based on completely incorrect assumptions, and for most of them it is unclear how you could get to them even if there was any basis to your assumptions.

The most vivid impression of observations on the monitor (using LabView) in real time was stable periodic signals of large amplitude with a period of 72 seconds for several hours. For me it was a enigma. I thought I was on the verge of a great discovery. It is now known to us that such the periodic signals of 72 seconds are recorded in the LISA project in million kilometers from the Earth.
LISA has made no such observations, in fact LISA has not flown yet, only a tech demo to prove that instruments could be built and calibrated to sufficient precision and stability for the LISA mission to work.
« Last Edit: 03/12/2018 02:23 PM by gongora »

Offline Mulletron

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https://m.wikihow.com/Criticize-Tactfully

Very Respectfully,
Mulletron (Jeremiah)
And I can feel the change in the wind right now - Rod Stewart

Offline Mulletron

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Is it a coincidence that when I divide 2/c I get 6.67x10-9, and I get 6.67x10-11 for big G? I left off the units because they're different.
And I can feel the change in the wind right now - Rod Stewart

Offline Mulletron

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I've learned something from studying the life and work of Carver Mead, it's much more difficult to understand a brand new concept than it is to learn (or said another way, to be taught) one.

http://worrydream.com/refs/Mead%20-%20American%20Spectator%20Interview.html

"It always worked out that when I understood something, it turned out to be simple. Take the connection between the quantum stuff and the electrodynamics in my book. It took me thirty years to figure out, and in the end, it was almost trivial. It's so simple that any freshman could read it and understand it. But it was hard for me to get there because all of this historical junk was in the way."

Edit: filled in the quote
« Last Edit: 03/10/2018 02:13 PM by Mulletron »
And I can feel the change in the wind right now - Rod Stewart

Offline Amit

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Offline fvlad

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Dear Meberbs,
You asked me many very interesting questions. I think that the respected members of the forum will be interested to hear my answers.

I will tell only the history of the experiment that in 2006 I read a lot about the gravitational waves of LIGO and I had an idea that gravitational waves from stars can be recorded with the help of the Casimir effect on the surfaces of bodies. Then I hung on a torsion balance a package of many sheets of writing paper between framed by pairs of frames of the same paper. I assumed that such a package should be a similarity to a gravitational telescope with a flat radiation pattern, and signals from stars should be repeated every day, but I did not see it.
Several points:
-Casmir effect is only between conducting surfaces, it doesn't happen between pieces of paper

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
«Casimir alone formulated the theory predicting a force between neutral conducting plates in 1948 which is called the Casimir effect in the narrow sense. Predictions of the force were later extended to finite-conductivity metals and dielectrics, and recent calculations have considered more general geometries».

Indeed, due to the Casimir effect, any nano powders are strongly attracted, both from conductive and from dielectric materials.

Other questions have answers in my essays.
https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2806
https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3080
Perhaps text is not quite clear, I'll think about how to answer more clearly.

Yours faithfully,
Vladimir




«Experience is what allows us to repeat our mistakes only with more finesse!» - Derwood Fincher

Online meberbs

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Indeed, due to the Casimir effect, any nano powders are strongly attracted, both from conductive and from dielectric materials.
"Nano powders" are irrelevant to the discussion, and paper is not a strong dielectric, so the already small Casimir effect would be even harder to detect for it.  Generally the surface roughness and non-rigidity of paper would negate its usefulness in any Casimir effect related experiment.

Other questions have answers in my essays.
No, actually they aren't answered there. It doesn't have anything to do with the text not being clear, but does have to do with the fact that you are using terms like "neutrino" in contexts that have nothing to do with neutrinos. This makes it appear that you do not actually know what any of the words you are using mean. Before you try to rewrite all of physics, you have to actually learn enough physics to know what you are talking about and what experiments have already been done.

Offline SteveD

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Any progress on monomorphics build?  Been quite here for a while.

Offline Bob Woods

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Any progress on monomorphics build?  Been quite here for a while.
One of the things Jamie was very concerned about was thermal atmospheric fluctuation due to to his very cold work space in the winter. He was waiting for the ground/walls to get warmer so that heating his space would not introduce too many air currents.

Offline Chrochne

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Pertinent image from the paper. The gain medium is Neodymium-doped yttrium orthovanadate crystal. The cavity is 5cm in length, with two highly reflecting mirrors at each end.

Is anyone able to make a graphic simulation of this optical EmDrive? It would be interesting to know how it may work internaly..

I also pressume like in the Eagleworks case Dr. Travis S. Taylor will not be able to post anything on currect progress of his optical EmDrive? Anyone knows please? Also...if you can, invite him here!
« Last Edit: 03/12/2018 06:10 AM by Chrochne »

Online Monomorphic

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Any progress on monomorphics build?  Been quite here for a while.
One of the things Jamie was very concerned about was thermal atmospheric fluctuation due to to his very cold work space in the winter. He was waiting for the ground/walls to get warmer so that heating his space would not introduce too many air currents.

In addition to waiting for more temperate weather, I am beginning the process of automating the experiment using LabView. I have experience with visual scripting through Autodesk applications and UE4, but it is still another application to learn - and a number of components that need to communicate over a wireless network. I can run the experiment manually now, but I need a programmable controller so I can run a number of identical experiments and average the results.

Offline Bob012345

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Is it a coincidence that when I divide 2/c I get 6.67x10-9, and I get 6.67x10-11 for big G? I left off the units because they're different.

Yes, a completely meaningless coincidence. Each number has been measured to high precision and after the first three digits in scientific notation they are very different. The odds that the first three digits of any two numbers are the same should be 1 in 900 (since the first digit won't be zero but the other two could be).
« Last Edit: 03/12/2018 04:08 PM by Bob012345 »

Online meberbs

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Is it a coincidence that when I divide 2/c I get 6.67x10-9, and I get 6.67x10-11 for big G? I left off the units because they're different.

A total yet meaningless coincidence. Each number has been measured to high precision and after the first three digits in scientific notation they are very different. The odds that the first three digits of any two numbers are the same should be 1 in 900 (since the first digit won't be zero but the other two could be).
G isn't known to much better precision than that, uncertainty is wide enough to change the next digit, still good enough to break this matching though. (We know gravitational parameters of planets and the sun much better, but uncertainty in their masses prevents this from really helping with G itself)

The main reason this is certainly a coincidence is the difference in units. Our unit system is very arbitrary, so any matching numbers in fundamental parameters with different units is a coincidence.

As a note, odds of finding a match like this are better than the 1 in 900. There is the extra free parameter in the 2 that c is divided into, it could have been any small number 1-9, so this moves it up to 1 in 100. when considering the number of constants you can choose from cross correlated with each other, and with options like multiply versus divide, this type of coincidence should be more common than intuition would make you think.

Offline Bob012345

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Is it a coincidence that when I divide 2/c I get 6.67x10-9, and I get 6.67x10-11 for big G? I left off the units because they're different.

A total yet meaningless coincidence. Each number has been measured to high precision and after the first three digits in scientific notation they are very different. The odds that the first three digits of any two numbers are the same should be 1 in 900 (since the first digit won't be zero but the other two could be).
G isn't known to much better precision than that, uncertainty is wide enough to change the next digit, still good enough to break this matching though. (We know gravitational parameters of planets and the sun much better, but uncertainty in their masses prevents this from really helping with G itself)

The main reason this is certainly a coincidence is the difference in units. Our unit system is very arbitrary, so any matching numbers in fundamental parameters with different units is a coincidence.

As a note, odds of finding a match like this are better than the 1 in 900. There is the extra free parameter in the 2 that c is divided into, it could have been any small number 1-9, so this moves it up to 1 in 100. when considering the number of constants you can choose from cross correlated with each other, and with options like multiply versus divide, this type of coincidence should be more common than intuition would make you think.

Yes, I was going to mention units being arbitrary but edited that out. My odds were only for two arbitrary three digit numbers, not this specific case which assumed a division by 2. I actually measured G in an undergraduate physics lab and got a value only about 10% different from the accepted value. Not bad but also not surprising since Cavendish himself got within 1% of the now accepted value nearly two centuries earlier.
« Last Edit: 03/12/2018 05:08 PM by Bob012345 »

Offline Chrochne

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In reference to past superconductor EmDrive materials (and debate) - MIT made breaktrough discovery on the superconductivity of the grafen. It was made almost by chance as quite a lot of great finds happen. It is now possible for superconductivity to happen in room temperature. The article was published on 5th March 2018.

It may be relevant for future tests of the EmDrive. Such discovery will open our way for many interesting new technologies and inventions and may decrease cost of the superconductivity tests.

http://news.mit.edu/2018/graphene-insulator-superconductor-0305

I am sure many laboratories around the world will jump on this and if there is some problem with that, they will discover it very fast. I think we should all try to follow it and see the progress - in relevance to the 3rd generation of the EmDrive as mentioned by Shawyer.

From the text:

"is not just the thinnest material known in the world, but also incredibly light and flexible, hundreds of times stronger than steel, and more electrically conductive than copper.

"the team reports it can tune graphene to behave at two electrical extremes: as an insulator, in which electrons are completely blocked from flowing; and as a superconductor, in which electrical current can stream through without resistance"

End of the text citation.

As we know original EmDrive is made from a copper. Now that would be interesting to make a layer of this superconductive type of layer there to enhance it capabilities. Or perhaps in some future make one out of it.
« Last Edit: 03/13/2018 05:26 AM by Chrochne »

Offline fvlad

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I am beginning the process of automating the experiment using LabView.

Your license for LabView is a license for using SignalExpress, this soft is even higher level, which is more than LabView adapted to the user and researchers. Missing specialized elements can be written in LabView and inserted.
For example, on SignalExpress I wrote in just one day soft, which interrogated 32 different sensors, with individual calibration data, with real-time spectral processing of signals, and instantaneous output of the protocol with the final result.
I recommend that you pay attention to SignalExpress.

Vladimir
«Experience is what allows us to repeat our mistakes only with more finesse!» - Derwood Fincher

Offline RotoSequence

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In reference to past superconductor EmDrive materials (and debate) - MIT made breaktrough discovery on the superconductivity of the grafen. It was made almost by chance as quite a lot of great finds happen. It is now possible for superconductivity to happen in room temperature. The article was published on 5th March 2018.

It may be relevant for future tests of the EmDrive. Such discovery will open our way for many interesting new technologies and inventions and may decrease cost of the superconductivity tests.

http://news.mit.edu/2018/graphene-insulator-superconductor-0305

I am sure many laboratories around the world will jump on this and if there is some problem with that, they will discover it very fast. I think we should all try to follow it and see the progress - in relevance to the 3rd generation of the EmDrive as mentioned by Shawyer.

From the text:

"is not just the thinnest material known in the world, but also incredibly light and flexible, hundreds of times stronger than steel, and more electrically conductive than copper.

"the team reports it can tune graphene to behave at two electrical extremes: as an insulator, in which electrons are completely blocked from flowing; and as a superconductor, in which electrical current can stream through without resistance"

End of the text citation.

As we know original EmDrive is made from a copper. Now that would be interesting to make a layer of this superconductive type of layer there to enhance it capabilities. Or perhaps in some future make one out of it.

I think there's some confusion about what was discovered regarding Graphene. What was discovered is that graphene sheets rotated at an angle become superconducting in a manner that seems similar to cuprate superconductors, but at temperatures closer to traditional superconductors. It's hoped that the more easily understood nature of graphene will help unlock the mystery about why cuprate superconductors work at all, which could hopefully lead to room temperature superconductors.

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