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#3180 by TheTraveller on 11 Apr, 2018 08:50
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Robert Zubrin (@robert_zubrin) Tweeted:
On Friday April 14, I will speak at the Breakthrough Initiatives conference at Stanford.
My talk, around 2 pm PST, will be on a new type of propellentless space propulsion system that I call the Dipole Drive.
It will be live streamed online.
https://t.co/IOKzTs6c40
https://twitter.com/robert_zubrin/status/983886343607541760?s=17
Getting crowded in P-P (Propellant Less Propulsion) land:
EmDrive,
Q Thruster,
Cannae Drive,
WDrive,
Qi Drive,
MEGA Drive,
and now Dipole Drive. -
#3181 by cvbn on 11 Apr, 2018 10:33
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Getting crowded in P-P (Propellant Less Propulsion) land:
EmDrive,
Q Thruster,
Cannae Drive,
WDrive,
Qi Drive,
MEGA Drive,
and now Dipole Drive.
Taylor's Drive:
http://www.jbis.org.uk/paper.php?p=2017.70.238
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323278529_Propulsive_forces_using_high-Q_asymmetric_high_energy_laser_resonators -
#3182 by fvlad on 11 Apr, 2018 12:43
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Added note: I still don’t see how this applies to an EmDrive. I see no where any of the above can be associated with how an EmDrive works. The only possibility is if you were suggesting that an EmDrive is essentially a direction receiving antenna of gravitational waves... which would result in an inertial bias as a function of the “equivalence principal”, but nothing has been presented to support that.
The key factor in the successful construction of Em Drive is my answer to your question "how any force is produced". The rest is naturally explained on the basis of this.
I gave an example of "demonstrating how any force is produced"
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation_videoquality_6_framerate_5.ogv
Read the description of the video here. This video in no way supports any of your claims, and just demonstrates the effect of the slightly elliptical orbit of the moon combined with the different orbital period of the ring material compared to the moon.
Meberbs, in my opinion, you do not pay attention to the main thing, to the "radial structure" of the "dark drapes". Let us read on the link you gave
«This movie sequence from Cassini shows dark drapes in the inner strands of the F ring caused by the gravitational influence of the shepherd moon Prometheus (102 kilometers, 63 miles across).
Prometheus appears first in the sequence, interior to the F ring, and Pandora (84 kilometers, 52 miles across) follows along outside of the ring. Radial structure in the bright core of the ring is visible throughout the movie».
Let us read through another link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherd_moon
«Due to their gravitational effect, they pick up particles and deflect them from their original orbits through orbital resonance. This causes gaps in the ring system, such as the particularly striking Cassini Division, as well as other characteristic bands, or strange "twisted" deformation of rings».
Thus, in the modern concept, there is an understanding that the force acting on the satellites and matter of the rings of Saturn is formed through orbital resonance ("Due to their gravitational effect, they collect particles and deflect them," "dark drapes in the inner threads of the ring F are caused by the gravitational influence of the shepherd moon Prometheus» "). Attention is also drawn to the "strange" twisted "deformation of the rings." http://www.spacenewsbg.com/data/Saturn_rings1.jpg
Unlike the above texts from Wikipedia, I just explain the mechanism of formation of orbital resonances forming force, as an action by means of toroidal gravitational waves.
Concerning gravitational waves then in my essay it is said:
«Gravitational waves are stationary, as particles and they are vortex gravitational toroidal fields, which can be transforming into photons and vice versa. Their action is observing in shape of plurality annular orbital resonances». https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/5836/?category=images (the image of the Earth in the orbital gravitational wave "orbital resonance").
For example, Memberbs saw on drawings (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42978.0;attach=1486082;sess=53555 )"simply circles", these are the orbital resonances formed by toroidal gravitational waves that can be observed in one form or another.
The second set of images are photographs of toroidal formations, showing the actions of toroidal gravitational waves,
Most of those images don't even have toroid shapes in them. Many are simply circles, or crosssections of other shapes like spheres or cylinders that you are using to feed your confirmation bias. A lot of them have absolutely nothing to do with gravity either.
At the same time, in the generally accepted concept, the mechanisms of formation of orbital resonances are not generally explained or these explanations are enveloped in a "fog".
Let us look and read the following link
https://cseligman.com/text/moons/prometheus.htm
https://cseligman.com/text/moons/prometheusstreaks.jpg
«Prometheus' interaction with the F ring pulls material toward it, but most of the time, as it moves past the ring particals (its smaller orbit gives it a higher physical and angular velocity), very little of the material actually reaches it. Most of the ring particles surge toward Prometheus then gradually fall backward and behind the moon towards the ring, creating waves and ripples in the ring. As a result of this process, the pull of the moon tends to actually concentrate material in the ring, rather than spreading it out. This paradoxical result is due to the interaction of the ring particles with the small temporary pull of Prometheus and the much larger permanent pull due to Saturn's gravity (see how satellites shepherd rings)».
From these vague explanations we should single out the following experimental fact. The matter of the rings of Saturn is an indicator of the action of the force of attraction between two satellites of Saturn.
When Prometheus and Pandora here are on different sides of Saturn, the force of attraction acts on Prometheus in the direction of Saturn. When Pandora is next to Prometheus, then the force of attraction acts on Prometheus from Saturn, and on Pandora the force acts toward Saturn.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1MvF-AefpMmNWJ2MGJkRmJvR00/view
Therefore, Newton's law of gravitation is at best an approximating function of the interaction of toroidal gravitational waves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_resonance
«In celestial mechanics, an orbital resonance occurs when orbiting bodies exert a regular, periodic gravitational influence on each other, usually because their orbital periods are related by a ratio of small integers».
I believe that orbital resonances are formed on the harmonics and subharmonics of parametric resonance, therefore "their orbital periods are related to the ratio of small integers".
In my opinion, the interaction of the toroidal gravitational waves of de Broglie is the only and universal mechanism for the formation of force, there are no other mechanisms in the Universe, and there are no other fundamental elements besides toroidal structures.
Toroidal gravitational waves have a strictly defined topology and are formed as a result of the classical quantum parametric resonance of high Q in the medium of a physical vacuum that has a viscosity related to the Hubble parameter. The medium of the physical vacuum also consists of de Broglie's dynamic and material waves, so this is a nonlinear medium.
At the same time, we read the definition of orbital resonance in Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Orbital_resonance
«The resonance is important for synchronizing planetary orbits and preventing a chaos, that would result from perturbances, should there be no stabilization factor.
The true world is not chaotic!»
«Mechanism
This page needs a clear explanation of the best available theories as to how orbital resonance occurs. For an example, see the section Tidal_locking#Mechanism. Without that, this page represents astronomy at its scholastic stage, a mere record of remarkable facts, and unfortunately lends credence to numerological or astrological interpretations. The physical science of astronomy must explain observed facts in terms of more general and fundamental physical laws. 124.191.50.199 16:46, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Well It's not so much a matter of there being competing theories, but a matter of delving into mathematical complexity and making the relevant part of the page rather technical. Worth doing of course. The article also lacks an explanation of the difference in conditions which make a resonance destabilize or stabilize an orbit. Deuar 08:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree. I came to this article having just found out about Laplace resonance, and wanted to understand how something like that comes about. After reading a loong article, and realizing that there are many such resonances in the solar system, I still have no idea how any of them come about! And I'm a physicist, and have done my share of resonance related readings and calculations! --Gargletheape (talk) 20:07, 12 August 2009 (UTC)»
The physicist does not understand how orbital resonances appear and this characterizes modern science that cannot comprehend real photos and studies. https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42978.0;attach=1486082;sess=53555
Vladimir
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#3183 by Monomorphic on 11 Apr, 2018 13:02
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Getting crowded in P-P (Propellant Less Propulsion) land:
EmDrive,
Q Thruster,
Cannae Drive,
WDrive,
Qi Drive,
MEGA Drive,
and now Dipole Drive.
Zubrin's reply to Phil's tweet is quite the burn...
"But mine is based on well known laws of physics." -
#3184 by Monomorphic on 11 Apr, 2018 14:27
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Based on my measurements of Oyzw's frustum, Big_D = 29cm, Height = 24cm, Small_D = 17cm, I would estimate mode TE013 to be near 2.498Ghz. This is closer than we thought it would be (2.54Ghz), but the cavity will still need to be slightly lengthened with a spacer to get to 2.45Ghz for testing. Since the small end does not appear to be below cutoff, we could add a spacer to that end, or we could add another spacer to the big end.
I am also running a full sweep from 2.3Ghz to 2.6Ghz to see what other modes are potentially available. Will post those shortly.
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#3185 by meberbs on 11 Apr, 2018 14:40
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Meberbs, in my opinion, you do not pay attention to the main thing, to the "radial structure" of the "dark drapes". Let us read on the link you gave
Again, you are prefacing a factually incorrect statement with "opinion."
«This movie sequence from Cassini shows dark drapes in the inner strands of the F ring caused by the gravitational influence of the shepherd moon Prometheus (102 kilometers, 63 miles across).
Prometheus appears first in the sequence, interior to the F ring, and Pandora (84 kilometers, 52 miles across) follows along outside of the ring. Radial structure in the bright core of the ring is visible throughout the movie».
If you continue reading the link I provided it explicitly addresses why the drapes are slanted radially:QuoteThe material closer to Prometheus orbits the planet faster than the material closer to the bright F ring core. The gores, together with the sheared-out material due to differential orbital motion, create the dark, diagonal drapes.
I had also briefly mentioned the effect of different periods as a function of radius directly in my post as well:combined with the different orbital period of the ring material compared to the moon.
Thus, in the modern concept, there is an understanding that the force acting on the satellites and matter of the rings of Saturn is formed through orbital resonance
Not entirely sure why you think that is relevant, unless you think it somehow supports your claims of there being special frequencies. It doesn't however, since it is talking about interactions between objects in orbit that have orbital periods that are small interger numbers of each other.Unlike the above texts from Wikipedia, I just explain the mechanism of formation of orbital resonances forming force, as an action by means of toroidal gravitational waves.
The texts from Wikipedia describe effects that scientists precisely know the origin of and can explain in detail all based on the simple Newtonian 1/r^2 gravitational law.
Concerning gravitational waves then in my essay it is said:
«Gravitational waves are stationary, as particles and they are vortex gravitational toroidal fields, which can be transforming into photons and vice versa. Their action is observing in shape of plurality annular orbital resonances». https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/5836/?category=images (the image of the Earth in the orbital gravitational wave "orbital resonance").
That image you linked does not show anything about "orbital resonance" the rings shown on it are a camera effect as stated in the link: "Coincidentally, Earth lies right in the center of one of the scattered light rays resulting from taking the image so close to the sun."
Your text does not actually constitute an explanation. There is nothing "toroidal" about the gaps in the rings, and you do not explain how gravitational waves have to do with anything.For example, Memberbs saw on drawings
First, spend 5 seconds and spell people's user names correctly. Second, what follows is not an "example of anything you were just discussing. My statement about your random collection of mostly unrelated images remains true.At the same time, in the generally accepted concept, the mechanisms of formation of orbital resonances are not generally explained or these explanations are enveloped in a "fog".
The explanation that you quote after this is more detailed than any explanation you have given. It explicitly refers to the magnitude direction and effective time period of the forces. Orbital resonance is a well understood effect among scientists that study orbital motion, and the only thing in a "fog" are your claims where you make random jumps from "toroidal gravitational waves" to "observed effect that is neither toroidal in shape, or has any relation to gravitational waves"Therefore, Newton's law of gravitation is at best an approximating function of the interaction of toroidal gravitational waves.
Your excessively long description that can be summarized as "the force of attraction between any 2 bodies is towards each other" Does not support any claim of inaccuracy of Newtonian gravitation, and certainly does not show your claims as superior in any way.I believe that orbital resonances are formed on the harmonics and subharmonics of parametric resonance, therefore "their orbital periods are related to the ratio of small integers".
You are going to have to explain what you mean by "parametric resonance," but if you are just referring to orbital period as a parameter, you aren't saying anything that isn't already described in the Wikipedia quote, and you are just supporting standard science.
Since orbits are ellipses, not toroids, and non-toroidal shapes (spheres, oblate spheroids, etc.) are common, this statement is clearly wrong.
In my opinion, the interaction of the toroidal gravitational waves of de Broglie is the only and universal mechanism for the formation of force, there are no other mechanisms in the Universe, and there are no other fundamental elements besides toroidal structures.
Toroidal gravitational waves have a strictly defined topology and are formed as a result of the classical quantum parametric resonance of high Q in the medium of a physical vacuum that has a viscosity related to the Hubble parameter. The medium of the physical vacuum also consists of de Broglie's dynamic and material waves, so this is a nonlinear medium. [/quote]At the same time, we read the definition of orbital resonance in Wikipedia
That is not the definition on Wikipedia, it is a quote from someone on the discussion page that clearly does not know what they are talking about. (Particularly since chaos is a well defined phenomenon with countless real world examples.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Orbital_resonance
«The resonance is important for synchronizing planetary orbits and preventing a chaos, that would result from perturbances, should there be no stabilization factor.
The true world is not chaotic!»The physicist does not understand how orbital resonances appear and this characterizes modern science that cannot comprehend real photos and studies.
One physicist not understanding the details of a concept that he was only just introduced to through a source that doesn't contain the technical details (because Wikipedia is not a physics textbook, so it isn't going to have the detailed math for every subject) does not say anything about the state of physics in general. It just means that orbital motion is not that person's area of expertise. The actual mechanism of resonance is well understood by people who have actually studied it.
You are the one who doesn't seem to comprehend any actual scientific studies. And you certainly don't understand the random collage of pictures you have, or you wouldn't include pictures of things like aircraft wingtip vortices, which have nothing to do with gravitational waves, and are roughly cylindrical in shape. -
#3186 by PotomacNeuron on 11 Apr, 2018 14:46
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Based on my measurements of Oyzw's frustum, Big_D = 29cm, Height = 24cm, Small_D = 17cm, I would estimate mode TE013 to be near 2.498Ghz. This is closer than we thought it would be (2.54Ghz), but the cavity will still need to be slightly lengthened with a spacer to get to 2.45Ghz for testing. Since the small end does not appear to be below cutoff, we could add a spacer to that end, or we could add another spacer to the big end.
I am also running a full sweep from 2.3Ghz to 2.6Ghz to see what other modes are potentially available. Will post those shortly.
Why not just use 2.498 GHz to test it? The frequency of 2.45 is not special, after all. -
#3187 by Monomorphic on 11 Apr, 2018 14:54
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Why not just use 2.498 GHz to test it? The frequency of 2.45 is not special, after all.
My 30W amplifier doesn't work as well up to that frequency. At 2.45Ghz I will only get around 25W. After that it drops off dramatically. I am not sure if running it at ~2.498Ghz will be bad for the equipment, but the power will be several dB lower.
See image below. Now that I look at it, I can probably get 5W - 10W out at 2.498Ghz. It might be worth a test at that level.
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#3188 by TheTraveller on 12 Apr, 2018 00:08
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Getting crowded in P-P (Propellant Less Propulsion) land:
EmDrive,
Q Thruster,
Cannae Drive,
WDrive,
Qi Drive,
MEGA Drive,
and now Dipole Drive.
Zubrin's reply to Phil's tweet is quite the burn...
"But mine is based on well known laws of physics."
My Twitter reply to Robert Zubrin:
=======
Drive validity is based on generating P-P thrust.
Theory follows later.
At the same conference will be Dr. Harold White (Q Thruster) and Dr Heidi Fearn (MEGA Drive). Might be a good idea to have a talk with them & review their experimental P-P thrust data. -
#3189 by Bob Woods on 12 Apr, 2018 01:44
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It's been a while Phil. Hope things are going well for you these days.
My Twitter reply to Robert Zubrin:
=======
Drive validity is based on generating P-P thrust.
Theory follows later.
At the same conference will be Dr. Harold White (Q Thruster) and Dr Heidi Fearn (MEGA Drive). Might be a good idea to have a talk with them & review their experimental P-P thrust data. -
#3190 by arc2 on 12 Apr, 2018 02:17
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Hello folks
Been a long time since I was last here. Can anyone advise me if member SeeShells had a positive outcome to her experiments, or if anyone else had or still is performing live experiments
And there used to be a listing of csv files eg copper-exy copper-exz etc around here some place, I remember creating a few 3d diags from them to authenticate another poster. can anyone advise if that line of experiments continued and if more csv files resulted
cheers -
#3191 by RotoSequence on 12 Apr, 2018 02:19
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Hello folks
Been a long time since I was last here. Can anyone advise me if member SeeShells had a positive outcome to her experiments, or if anyone else had or still is performing live experiments
And there used to be a listing of csv files eg copper-exy copper-exz etc around here some place, I remember creating a few 3d diags from them to authenticate another poster. can anyone advise if that line of experiments continued and if more csv files resulted
cheers
I believe we're still waiting on data from Seashells. -
#3192 by ThatOtherGuy on 12 Apr, 2018 10:17
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Based on my measurements of Oyzw's frustum, Big_D = 29cm, Height = 24cm, Small_D = 17cm, I would estimate mode TE013 to be near 2.498Ghz. This is closer than we thought it would be (2.54Ghz), but the cavity will still need to be slightly lengthened with a spacer to get to 2.45Ghz for testing. Since the small end does not appear to be below cutoff, we could add a spacer to that end, or we could add another spacer to the big end.
I am also running a full sweep from 2.3Ghz to 2.6Ghz to see what other modes are potentially available. Will post those shortly.
Jamie, just a quick question; even if I went to "lurk mode", I've followed your new builds; I wonder... did you abandon that "3d printed" cavity you built, or are you postponing, for some reasons, the tests on it (just curious) ?
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#3193 by ThatOtherGuy on 12 Apr, 2018 10:18
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Getting crowded in P-P (Propellant Less Propulsion) land:
EmDrive,
Q Thruster,
Cannae Drive,
WDrive,
Qi Drive,
MEGA Drive,
and now Dipole Drive.
Zubrin's reply to Phil's tweet is quite the burn...
"But mine is based on well known laws of physics."
I'm really wondering which kind of critter that "dipole drive" may be; oh well, we'll see it in a short, I suppose
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#3194 by Monomorphic on 12 Apr, 2018 14:33
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Jamie, just a quick question; even if I went to "lurk mode", I've followed your new builds; I wonder... did you abandon that "3d printed" cavity you built, or are you postponing, for some reasons, the tests on it (just curious) ?
The 3D printed cavity is still being used. But now that Oyzw has sent me another cavity, I will have a total of three cavities to test. The 3D printed cavity has spherical end-plates, while the other two have flat. Right now i'm trying to finish up on the liquid metal contacts so i can set up the experiment in LabView more easily. I ordered clear PLA, which arrives today, as that was recommended for use in a vacuum and it will allow us to see the level of the liquid metal since it is transparent. That should all be finished this weekend, with the liquid metal arriving Tuesday. Then everything gets reattached to the thrust balance and we should be good to go. -
#3195 by otlski on 12 Apr, 2018 23:49
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Will the liquid metal boil off at near vacuum?
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#3196 by Monomorphic on 13 Apr, 2018 01:52
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Will the liquid metal boil off at near vacuum?
My understanding is the liquid metal will evaporate, but it will be at a very slow rate. I do not think it will boil unless taken to very high vacuum. -
#3197 by Star-Drive on 13 Apr, 2018 03:58
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Will the liquid metal boil off at near vacuum?
My understanding is the liquid metal will evaporate, but it will be at a very slow rate. I do not think it will boil unless taken to very high vacuum.
Jamie:
If you add a drop of vacuum pump oil over each liquid metal pot container, but only after you first add in the liquid metal to each contact pot, metal evaporation raters goes to near zero even in a 1x10-6 Torr vacuum, and the liquid metal now has a dielectric capping layer that can keep it from arcing under high voltage differentials.
Best, -
#3198 by cvbn on 13 Apr, 2018 12:01
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Will the liquid metal boil off at near vacuum?
My understanding is the liquid metal will evaporate, but it will be at a very slow rate. I do not think it will boil unless taken to very high vacuum.
What exactly liquid metal we are talking about? -
#3199 by X_RaY on 13 Apr, 2018 19:14
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The stuff is called "Galinstan", the mixture is liquid at room temperature and less dangerous than mercury...Will the liquid metal boil off at near vacuum?
My understanding is the liquid metal will evaporate, but it will be at a very slow rate. I do not think it will boil unless taken to very high vacuum.
What exactly liquid metal we are talking about?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galinstan
As far as i know the teststand of Monomorphic is designed to operate in "normal" ambient pressure (because there is no proper vac teststand available in the garage lab, especially of the size needed
)
)