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#2940 by Stormbringer on 15 Jan, 2018 15:07
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well i was going to post this https://phys.org/news/2018-01-device-negative-massand-lasers.html but i guess it is the same thing. Still; it gets the weird effect thing across doesn't it?
So this is yet another way to get negative mass/energy whether just apparent or really real. -
#2941 by graybeardsyseng on 18 Jan, 2018 10:44
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well i was going to post this https://phys.org/news/2018-01-device-negative-massand-lasers.html but i guess it is the same thing. Still; it gets the weird effect thing across doesn't it?
Interesting article and comments following article.
So this is yet another way to get negative mass/energy whether just apparent or really real.
No posts for three days in this thread - hmmm - or did I miss a switch to a new thread??
graybeardsyseng -
#2942 by Stormbringer on 18 Jan, 2018 16:35
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nope. It's really weird. I was feeling guilty because I thought I broke it or posted something so out of bounds it drove everyone away or have really bad personal hygiene or something.well i was going to post this https://phys.org/news/2018-01-device-negative-massand-lasers.html but i guess it is the same thing. Still; it gets the weird effect thing across doesn't it?
Interesting article and comments following article.
So this is yet another way to get negative mass/energy whether just apparent or really real.
No posts for three days in this thread - hmmm - or did I miss a switch to a new thread??
graybeardsyseng
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#2943 by WarpTech on 18 Jan, 2018 17:21
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nope. It's really weird. I was feeling guilty because I thought I broke it or posted something so out of bounds it drove everyone away or have really bad personal hygiene or something.well i was going to post this https://phys.org/news/2018-01-device-negative-massand-lasers.html but i guess it is the same thing. Still; it gets the weird effect thing across doesn't it?
Interesting article and comments following article.
So this is yet another way to get negative mass/energy whether just apparent or really real.
No posts for three days in this thread - hmmm - or did I miss a switch to a new thread??
graybeardsyseng
Right? A couple of years ago we had multiple experimenters all committing to getting to the bottom of this. Now it's like they all disappeared and nothing new is being reported. Peter? Jamie? Shells? Crickets!
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#2944 by SeeShells on 18 Jan, 2018 17:54
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Guys and Gals,
nope. It's really weird. I was feeling guilty because I thought I broke it or posted something so out of bounds it drove everyone away or have really bad personal hygiene or something.well i was going to post this https://phys.org/news/2018-01-device-negative-massand-lasers.html but i guess it is the same thing. Still; it gets the weird effect thing across doesn't it?
Interesting article and comments following article.
So this is yet another way to get negative mass/energy whether just apparent or really real.
No posts for three days in this thread - hmmm - or did I miss a switch to a new thread??
graybeardsyseng
Right? A couple of years ago we had multiple experimenters all committing to getting to the bottom of this. Now it's like they all disappeared and nothing new is being reported. Peter? Jamie? Shells? Crickets!
I'm still here and still committed to unraveling this enigma. Sadly it's slower going living at the top of the Rockies, the weather slows things down.
Not much more to report other than getting the new area set up correctly. It is tough trying to measure snow flakes, make sure you get it right and account for all the systemic errors. I'm also working on a paper when I need to be inside and snuggled next to the fire.
I know Paul and Jamie are working on their projects, so have faith and have patience, we are still taking notes and kicking you know what.
My Very Best to some of the finest people I know,
Shell -
#2945 by Monomorphic on 18 Jan, 2018 22:06
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Right? A couple of years ago we had multiple experimenters all committing to getting to the bottom of this. Now it's like they all disappeared and nothing new is being reported. Peter? Jamie? Shells? Crickets!
It's still too cold to get any work done. I thought moderate temperatures had returned, but then we've been having 14°F nights and days that barely get above freezing. I live in the south, so this is a little unusual. My workshop is fairly well insulated, but it is a large room and the small space heater just doesn't cut it.
Everything is finished and ready to go. As soon as warmer weather arrives, I will be completing the first round of tests using the new 30W amplifier and heat sink. In the mean time, I've been trying to record another walk-around video, but need to get an adapter for my tripod that fits my new iphone.
I've also been working with the Polish group to get their test rig updated with a laser displacement sensor. I set them up with the FEKO files they needed to run simulations of their own. Jakub found that with slight modifications to their current cavity, they should be able to excite mode TE012 within the frequency range of their amplifier, at ~2.35Ghz. Below is an image from them. I believe they will be in Philadelphia in May.
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#2946 by Bob Woods on 19 Jan, 2018 01:54
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I believe they will be in Philadelphia in May.
A public conference? -
#2947 by Monomorphic on 19 Jan, 2018 02:05
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A public conference?
It is a competition: https://www.crazynauka.pl/explory-2017-znamy-juz-zwyciezcow-tego-konkursu-naukowego/ -
#2948 by graybeardsyseng on 19 Jan, 2018 04:28
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Its the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair (ISEF) I think - IIRC there is usually an open to the public day I think it is 17 May this year; although usually they are also looking for volunteer judges etc. Some of the best and brightest students from around the world.A public conference?
It is a competition: https://www.crazynauka.pl/explory-2017-znamy-juz-zwyciezcow-tego-konkursu-naukowego/
graybeardsyseng -
#2949 by Chrochne on 19 Jan, 2018 11:19
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I recently checked, if there is some development about the EmDrive and I found out that two days ago many russian news sites posted about something in China.
The following text is translated from the the russian site - https://vistanews.ru/science/203299
I asked Oywz if he can find the chinese original. Or if there was any paper released for their claims. If there are any other chinese people that can help that would be great.
"Scientists from the Chinese Academy of Sciences explained why the work of the EmDrive sensational engine is in full compliance with the laws of physics. Previously, specialists did not take into account the strengths of the horizontal components when calculating the thrust, erroneously claiming a violation of the laws of physics by a unique engine.
Until now, calculation of thrust EmDrive took into account only 2 vertical forces, while the horizontal components were completely ignored. It is the consideration of all the above elements of the formula that avoids the erroneous opinion about the violation of the laws of physics by the sensational engine, scientists from CAS emphasize. EmDrive looks like an ordinary gilded bucket. The author of the project assured the scientific community of the ability of a unique engine to convert radiation into cravings. Since 1999 (the moment of invention EmDrive) disputes about the peculiarities of engine operation and its "relationships" with the laws of physics have not abated."
End of the text.
Ok found the original russian text here - https://dni.ru/tech/2018/1/16/389086.html
The principle of the EmDrive engine does not violate the laws of physics. The secrets of his work were explained by Chinese scientists.
The engine's creator, Roger Scheuer, calculated the thrust developed by EmDrive with only two forces acting vertically. And the forces that have horizontal components, the British decided to neglect. The work aroused controversy among the colleagues of the inventor - it seemed to them that the engine violated the law of conservation of momentum.
The scientist Chen Wu (Chrochne note: keep in mind google translation of names is horrible) of the Institute of Mechanics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences offered his explanation to the experts. In his opinion, it is precisely the account of horizontal forces that avoids the seeming contradiction. Their contribution mathematically reduces to the surface integral from the Umov-Poynting vector (the vector of the energy flux density of the electromagnetic field), and physically to the radiation pressure on the side walls of the EmDrive cavity.
Presented by Schoyer in 1999, the design, according to the inventor, should convert radiation into traction. EmDrive consists of a magnetron that generates microwaves, and a resonator that accumulates the energy of their oscillations. Outwardly, the unit resembles a bucket.
In 2016, a group of NASA scientists reported on the tests of EmDrive. In the article it was noted that the motor in a vacuum develops a thrust of 1.2 milliNontons per kilowatt. Errors in the design of the testers were not found, but they did not find the retroactive force responsible for the developed EmDrive reactive thrust. The latter must be present in accordance with the law of conservation of momentum. This fact caused heated debate in the academic community, writes Lenta.ru with reference to the journal Acta Astronautica.
The EmDrive technology can be described as a "fuelless rocket engine". It does not require fuel, and the absence of large volumes of fuel on board will make space ships easier. Theoretically, they will be easier to set in motion, and production will be much cheaper. In addition, the hypothetical engine will achieve incredibly high speeds: astronauts will be able to get to the outer boundaries of the solar system in a matter of months.
However, the concept of motion without reactive ejection of mass does not dovetail with the Newtonian law of conservation of momentum. In accordance with this within the closed system, the linear and angular momenta remain constant values, regardless of the changes occurring within this system. That is, if you do not apply an external force to the body, then you can not move it from its place.
End of text -
#2950 by Peter Lauwer on 20 Jan, 2018 10:40
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I recently checked, if there is some development about the EmDrive and I found out that two days ago many russian news sites posted about something in China.
...
"Scientists from the Chinese Academy of Sciences explained why the work of the EmDrive sensational engine is in full compliance with the laws of physics. Previously, specialists did not take into account the strengths of the horizontal components when calculating the thrust, erroneously claiming a violation of the laws of physics by a unique engine.
Until now, calculation of thrust EmDrive took into account only 2 vertical forces, while the horizontal components were completely ignored. It is the consideration of all the above elements of the formula that avoids the erroneous opinion about the violation of the laws of physics by the sensational engine, scientists from CAS emphasize. EmDrive looks like an ordinary gilded bucket. The author of the project assured the scientific community of the ability of a unique engine to convert radiation into cravings. Since 1999 (the moment of invention EmDrive) disputes about the peculiarities of engine operation and its "relationships" with the laws of physics have not abated."
...
It does not sound very impressive.
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#2951 by meberbs on 20 Jan, 2018 16:22
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The principle of the EmDrive engine does not violate the laws of physics. The secrets of his work were explained by Chinese scientists.
These sentences simply contradict each other, unless the first one also left out saying "the emDrive does nothing useful." The so-called explanation in between still describes "motion without reactive ejection of mass."
...
However, the concept of motion without reactive ejection of mass does not dovetail with the Newtonian law of conservation of momentum. In accordance with this within the closed system, the linear and angular momenta remain constant values, regardless of the changes occurring within this system. That is, if you do not apply an external force to the body, then you can not move it from its place. -
#2952 by ThinkerX on 21 Jan, 2018 00:10
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Quote
These sentences simply contradict each other, unless the first one also left out saying "the emDrive does nothing useful." The so-called explanation in between still describes "motion without reactive ejection of mass."
The posted bits looked like a poor summary gleaned from public sources...at least to me. It also looks like translation issues abound.
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#2953 by as58 on 21 Jan, 2018 21:54
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I think the article that the Russian sites are discussing is https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322261866
The article doesn't seem to say anything that hasn't been said many times before. -
#2954 by OnlyMe on 23 Jan, 2018 15:40
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Just this morning I noticed the NovaTech banner advertisement that supports every single NSF webpage view in the top right corner.
Even though I've seen it tens of thousands of times by now, I finally took a moment to actually look at their banner ad.
It turns out that they are an engineering company that specializes in developing customized force measurement solutions.
https://www.novatechloadcells.co.uk
How appropriate is that?!?
It sure would be nice if they'd participate in our Emdrive design and measurement discussions. *hint hint mods*
Perhaps because I am using an iOS device but I found no banner ad of any kind at the linked page.., or several layers deeper from that page? -
#2955 by D_Dom on 23 Jan, 2018 15:45
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I have contacted them in the past. Their instrumentation is capable of measurement at this scale. Very helpful and responded right away to my inquiry.
Exchanged private message with RERT at the time, he provided this link; www.micronewton.co.uk/info.html
This was some time ago, I haven't built anything suitable for experimentation yet... -
#2956 by meberbs on 23 Jan, 2018 16:26
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Just this morning I noticed the NovaTech banner advertisement that supports every single NSF webpage view in the top right corner.
Even though I've seen it tens of thousands of times by now, I finally took a moment to actually look at their banner ad.
It turns out that they are an engineering company that specializes in developing customized force measurement solutions.
https://www.novatechloadcells.co.uk
How appropriate is that?!?
It sure would be nice if they'd participate in our Emdrive design and measurement discussions. *hint hint mods*
Perhaps because I am using an iOS device but I found no banner ad of any kind at the linked page.., or several layers deeper from that page?
The banner ad is on THIS page. Clicking on the ad takes you to the page that was linked. -
#2957 by OnlyMe on 23 Jan, 2018 16:45
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Just this morning I noticed the NovaTech banner advertisement that supports every single NSF webpage view in the top right corner.
Even though I've seen it tens of thousands of times by now, I finally took a moment to actually look at their banner ad.
It turns out that they are an engineering company that specializes in developing customized force measurement solutions.
https://www.novatechloadcells.co.uk
How appropriate is that?!?
It sure would be nice if they'd participate in our Emdrive design and measurement discussions. *hint hint mods*
Perhaps because I am using an iOS device but I found no banner ad of any kind at the linked page.., or several layers deeper from that page?
The banner ad is on THIS page. Clicking on the ad takes you to the page that was linked.
Dah… Got it. Shows how much attention I pay to banner ads.
P.S. Still when mentioned I’d did check it out. -
#2958 by WarpTech on 23 Jan, 2018 17:20
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I have contacted them in the past. Their instrumentation is capable of measurement at this scale. Very helpful and responded right away to my inquiry.
Exchanged private message with RERT at the time, he provided this link; www.micronewton.co.uk/info.html
This was some time ago, I haven't built anything suitable for experimentation yet...
Nice that it can measure micro-Newtons, but my MEGA Drive weighs 1.4 kg. This load cell can't support the weight of the device AND measure the forces. Any suggestions? It would be nice to have a device that can hang a MEGA and measure such small changes in weight. -
#2959 by dustinthewind on 23 Jan, 2018 19:36
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I have contacted them in the past. Their instrumentation is capable of measurement at this scale. Very helpful and responded right away to my inquiry.
Exchanged private message with RERT at the time, he provided this link; www.micronewton.co.uk/info.html
This was some time ago, I haven't built anything suitable for experimentation yet...
Nice that it can measure micro-Newtons, but my MEGA Drive weighs 1.4 kg. This load cell can't support the weight of the device AND measure the forces. Any suggestions? It would be nice to have a device that can hang a MEGA and measure such small changes in weight.
Here is anther thought. Two opposing MET drives mounted on a pendulum. One driven in propulsion mode the other in a neutral mode.
The pendulum uses a bounced laser and you operate the drives at the resonant frequency of the pendulum.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42978.msg1691070#msg1691070
