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#1300 by WarpTech on 08 Sep, 2017 05:16
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Well, let me pull another quote then, that also fits in :
Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible..
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/02/21/impossible/
If you ask for the impossible you will be disappointed... -- me -
#1301 by oyzw on 08 Sep, 2017 07:31
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Recently, CCTV interviewed Dr. Chen Yue of China Aerospace Science and Technology Group on the progress of research and development of emdrive. Dr. Chen Yue showed the emdrive device and research process to the public. It is reported that emdrive has been installed on experimental satellites, waiting for space testing.
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#1302 by Chrochne on 08 Sep, 2017 08:09
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Recently, CCTV interviewed Dr. Chen Yue of China Aerospace Science and Technology Group on the progress of research and development of emdrive. Dr. Chen Yue showed the emdrive device and research process to the public. It is reported that emdrive has been installed on experimental satellites, waiting for space testing.
Hi Oyzw,
Thank you for the update! Can you by chance provide us with the link to the news report or if some chinese news media wrote about it? -
#1303 by oyzw on 08 Sep, 2017 08:15
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Yes, of course.Recently, CCTV interviewed Dr. Chen Yue of China Aerospace Science and Technology Group on the progress of research and development of emdrive. Dr. Chen Yue showed the emdrive device and research process to the public. It is reported that emdrive has been installed on experimental satellites, waiting for space testing.
Hi Oyzw,
Thank you for the update! Can you by chance provide us with the link to the news report or if some chinese news media wrote about it? -
#1304 by Chrochne on 08 Sep, 2017 08:21
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Also if you can find the link for the video. Can you find it in some CCTV archive perhaps? I can send it to some people for translation.
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#1305 by oyzw on 08 Sep, 2017 08:21
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Also if you can find the link for the video. Can you find it in some CCTV archive perhaps? I can send it to some people for translation.
http://tv.cctv.com/lm/jjbxs/ -
#1306 by Chrochne on 08 Sep, 2017 08:25
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Also if you can find the link for the video. Can you find it in some CCTV archive perhaps? I can send it to some people for translation.
http://tv.cctv.com/lm/jjbxs/
Thank you Oyzw you rock!
I am asking around for the translation from chinese. Please do the same folks
I found link for YouTube starts around 18 minutes
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#1307 by oyzw on 08 Sep, 2017 08:36
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Also if you can find the link for the video. Can you find it in some CCTV archive perhaps? I can send it to some people for translation.
http://tv.cctv.com/lm/jjbxs/
Thank you Oyzw you rock!
I am asking around for the translation from chinese. Please do the same folks
This is my new cavity
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#1308 by Flyby on 08 Sep, 2017 09:42
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Interesting indeed, but I'm surprised to notice the cylindrical shape of Dr. Chen Yue's EMdrive...
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#1309 by Chrochne on 08 Sep, 2017 09:54
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Interesting indeed, but I'm surprised to notice the cylindrical shape of Dr. Chen Yue's EMdrive...
Exactly I noticed that too. -
#1310 by Flyby on 08 Sep, 2017 10:01
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Well, let me pull another quote then, that also fits in :
Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible..
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/02/21/impossible/
If you ask for the impossible you will be disappointed... -- me
Not as catchy as the above one, but .. yeah.. i can relate to that...
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#1311 by Peter Lauwer on 08 Sep, 2017 11:51
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Well, let me pull another quote then, that also fits in :
Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible..
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/02/21/impossible/
It might no be from Escher, I read.
I have it listed in my citations collection as: 'Only those who attempt the absurd...will achieve the impossible. I think...I think it's in my basement...Let me go upstairs and check.'
'You can't believe everything you read on the internet anymore.' Abraham Lincoln 
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#1312 by Peter Lauwer on 08 Sep, 2017 11:54
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Also if you can find the link for the video. Can you find it in some CCTV archive perhaps? I can send it to some people for translation.
http://tv.cctv.com/lm/jjbxs/
Thank you Oyzw you rock!
I am asking around for the translation from chinese. Please do the same folks This is my new cavity
Nice copper work! -
#1313 by Monomorphic on 08 Sep, 2017 12:23
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This is my new cavity
Would you mind sharing the dimensions and operating mode? -
#1314 by Monomorphic on 08 Sep, 2017 12:30
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Interesting indeed, but I'm surprised to notice the cylindrical shape of Dr. Chen Yue's EMdrive...
There also appears to be another mode very nearby.
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#1315 by Rodal on 08 Sep, 2017 13:25
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Recently, CCTV interviewed Dr. Chen Yue of China Aerospace Science and Technology Group on the progress of research and development of emdrive. Dr. Chen Yue showed the emdrive device and research process to the public. It is reported that emdrive has been installed on experimental satellites, waiting for space testing.
What does "Roger" [as TheTraveller refers to Shawyer] have to say about Dr. Chen Yue of China Aerospace Science and Technology Group instead of the tapered design promoted by Shawyer shows a cylindrical EM Drive both in these pictures, the China TV video, and most important in some of his patents?
It is interesting that "Roger" who has so much to say on "a list" [posted by TheTraveller as being authored by "Roger"] https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42978.msg1719903#msg1719903 has been silent on the fact that Yue shows a cylindrical cavity, not even following his first commandment of having ends with unequal diameter.
How does "Roger" "theory" explain thrust by such a cylindrical cavity? How does "Roger" explain that Dr. Yue is apparently not following "Roger's rules"?
If an EM Drive does not even need to have unequal end diameters, what makes an EM Drive in the first place? Just being a closed electromagnetically resonant cavity? Are there any known rules to this?
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#1316 by X_RaY on 08 Sep, 2017 13:54
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Regarding the amplitude in this diagram (however logarithmic-magnitude over frequency or linear-magnitude over frequency) i guess it's either strong over or likewise under coupled. Maybe this was posing for the camera onlyInteresting indeed, but I'm surprised to notice the cylindrical shape of Dr. Chen Yue's EMdrive...
There also appears to be another mode very nearby.
(I have several years of experience with a similar agilent VNA.) -
#1317 by Rodal on 08 Sep, 2017 14:10
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您可能忘记了我曾上传过陈粤教授的专利，在圆柱腔体中设置了金属膜片，改变了电磁场形态，构成不对称电磁场形态，依然遵循共同的原理。Recently, CCTV interviewed Dr. Chen Yue of China Aerospace Science and Technology Group on the progress of research and development of emdrive. Dr. Chen Yue showed the emdrive device and research process to the public. It is reported that emdrive has been installed on experimental satellites, waiting for space testing.
What does "Roger" have to say about Dr. Chen Yue of China Aerospace Science and Technology Group instead of the tapered design promoted by "Roger" shows a cylindrical EM Drive both in these pictures, the China TV video, and most important in some of his patents?
It is interesting that "Roger" who has so much to say on "a list" https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42978.msg1719903#msg1719903 has been silent on the fact that Yue shows a cylindrical cavity, not even following his first commandment of having ends with unequal diameter.
How does "Roger" "theory" explain thrust by such a cylindrical cavity? How does "Roger" explain that Dr. Yue is apparently not following "Roger's rules"?
If an EM Drive does not even need to have unequal end diameters, what makes an EM Drive an EM Drive in the first place? Just being a closed electromagnetically resonant cavity?
Thank you. I do not remember Chen Yue's patent with such details.
Are you referring to this document (posted by Flux_Capacitor)
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/691fd8a52a01660d076b/CN105947224A.pdf
English translation https://www.google.com/patents/CN105947224A?cl=en ?
[0039] The electromagnetic propulsion module includes a resonant cavity inside an asymmetric structure, the use of electromagnetic propulsion module inside the resonator cavity asymmetric structure, produce uneven microwave radiation pressure, and then in the resonant cavity be unbalanced electromagnetic force to external output thrust. Asymmetric structure is preferable to adopt a resonant cavity electromagnetic propulsion resonant cavity, electromagnetic propulsion system around the resonant cavity electromagnetic propulsion structures, electromagnetic propulsion resonant cavity shown in FIG. 1, respectively. As can be seen, electromagnetic propulsion resonant cavity is divided into four faces: plane Sa, surface Sb, plane Sc, plane Sd, as shown in FIG. Sa mounted on a plane microwave power input device on a plane Sc plane fitted with microwave power extraction apparatus. Input to the feedback power control module from the microwave power extraction means to extract microwave power as a feedback power. Electromagnetic propulsion thrust output of the resonant cavity Preferred conditions: input microwave power frequency electromagnetic propulsion within 3dB bandwidth of the center frequency of the resonant cavity. Under the operating conditions of the effect of microwave power, electromagnetic propulsion resonant cavity can be unbalanced microwave radiation pressure, and thus in the resonant cavity be unbalanced electromagnetic force, thrust externally output, as shown in FIG. Select the lowest electromagnetic propulsion mode resonator center frequency f〇 electromagnetic propulsion system frequency. Semicylindrical cavity of the radius R (meters), length L (in meters) and preferably the relationship between the center frequency F0 (Unit GHz) between the semi-cylindrical cavity of:
[0040]
[0041] Preferably R = 86 mm, L = 117.7 mm, using the formula (1) f0 were solver to 2.45 GHz.
Simulation by X_Ray:
Comment by X_Ray:QuoteThis cavity is related to the other patent (please compare the numbers ). An asymmetry should be present for the surface currents, the way along the curved face is much longer than at the flat surface while the total resistance of each path is given by an integral over the skin penetration depth times the resistance of the copper and the path length as well as the temperature of the local resistor. Because of the temperature grows faster at the middle bottom section (higher current density) the resistance grows faster in this region.(Not sure if this construction is usable fore constant thrust generation in space
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Does it make sense?
What you describe sounds like a sort of bandpass filter. The periodic structure may better compared to the slotted cannae device.
Simulation by Monomorphic:
Comment by Monomorphic:QuoteConfirmed at 2.48Ghz. Though I used a half loop antenna mounted in the center.
While the cavity geometry is asymmetric, the e-fields are pretty uniform throughout the cavity. I'm not surprised they are having trouble getting thrust. What would TE013 look like in this geometry?
Comment by TheTraveller (in case he answers as to what "Roger" has to say):QuoteLooks like TE011 mode in a 1/2 cylindrical "Pill Box" resonator. Doubt there is any "Shawyer Effect" thrust being generated.
(Bold added to quotation for emphasis)
We would very much appreciate it if you could upload Chen Yue's patent again and explain how he sets up a metal diaphragm in the cylindrical cavity, to change the shape of the electromagnetic field into an asymmetric electromagnetic field, and hence still follow the common principle? I do not understand the purpose of doing it that way instead of the way that Shawyer promotes it.
(It is very difficult, next to impossible, to search for old posts in this website) -
#1318 by Star-Drive on 08 Sep, 2017 15:00
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Jose':
"I do not understand the purpose of doing it that way instead of the way that "Roger" promotes it."
How about finding ways to avoid infringements on Roger's EMdrive patents?
Best, Paul M. -
#1319 by Rodal on 08 Sep, 2017 15:04
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Jose':
The problems with that explanation are as follows:
"I do not understand the purpose of doing it that way instead of the way that "Roger" promotes it."
How about finding ways to avoid infringements on Roger's EMdrive patents?
Best, Paul M.
1) Shawyer's original patents for asymmetric resonant cavities of that vintage [not superconducting] were UK patents (this refers to his patents before his association with Gilo, when finally Shawyer+Gilo applied for new patents with new designs with applicability outside the UK). There appears to be no Chinese patent, or a Worldwide patent of that vintage design. Therefore no infringement issue in China, (or in the USA concerning the designs followed by Monomorphic and other Do-It-Yourself) for UK patents.
In any case, I doubt that the Chinese Space Agency had at any time the intention to sell their EM Drives in the UK. Even if that would have been the case: Shawyer's patents of this vintage design have expired:
2) It appears that Shawyer's patents of that vintage (for example GB (11) 2 229 865(13)A 1990 ) have expired even in the UK, there is one patent (2 334 761 (13) A 1999) close to expiration. Presently valid patents with significant life remaining (starting with his -13 year old already, and having just 7 more years of life assuming 20 year life- 2004 patent covering [Claim1: An engine comprising a gimbal mounted matrix of a number of superconducting microwave thrusters which are supplied with pulses of microwave energy via an array of switches and enclosed in a dewar which is maintained at low temperature by liquefied gas.]) appear to cover other things like designs for superconductivity, etc. Such superconductive designs are not discussed by the Chinese patents that we are addressing.
Patent infringement law: you get a specific patent for the UK: then infringement applies in the UK. If you like to discuss infringement you have to:
1) discuss presently valid patent claims. Once the patent expires then there are no infringement issues. This is basic patent law, as a monopoly is given to the inventor for a finite amount of time in exchange for the monopoly. When the patent expires everybody is free to pursue the patent's design for commercial purposes. The patent infringement issue applies to specific claims.
2) patents valid in the geographical locality where a patent was awarded.
Chinese are very much aware of patent law. It seems to me that Yue must have had some other reason in mind to pursue this unusual design. Also the presence and nature of the "internal diaphragm" mentioned by oyzw does not appear to have been obvious to either Monomorphic or X_Ray, as (please correct me if I am wrong) their simulations do not appear to include such an internal diaphragm providing asymmetry.
QUESTION: Is the geometrical and material design of the "internal diaphragm in Yue's design" clear to anybody reading this? If so please post !
Best,
JR
