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#40
by
wannamoonbase
on 11 Oct, 2017 20:15
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#41
by
Kaputnik
on 16 Oct, 2017 11:54
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#42
by
envy887
on 16 Oct, 2017 14:13
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As reported here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43976.msg1738038#msg1738038
SpaceX pitched the idea of a flown booster for CRS-13 to NASA and they will give them an answer in early November.
Source is a credible Reddit user.
A reused Dragon and a reused booster... I would love to see that 
What exactly would NASA's motivation be to go with a used booster? It sounds like SpaceX is phasing out the discount, which was already so low that NASA probably wouldn't be very interested. Other customers would be interested in the schedule availability of a used booster, but to my understanding NASA already has #1 schedule priority.
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#43
by
abaddon
on 16 Oct, 2017 14:26
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Does NASA contractually have the right to refuse SpaceX use a used booster? I would imagine not, for CRS at least.
Obviously SpaceX won't do it if NASA objects, but I think the question is more on the other foot, meaning what NASA's motivation is to argue that it not use a previously flown booster. As time goes by and (hopefully) more previously flown boosters are employed without failure, that seems harder and harder to justify.
CRS-13 might be too early, but it will happen at some point.
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#44
by
gongora
on 16 Oct, 2017 14:37
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Does NASA contractually have the right to refuse SpaceX use a used booster? I would imagine not, for CRS at least.
Obviously SpaceX won't do it if NASA objects, but I think the question is more on the other foot, meaning what NASA's motivation is to argue that it not use a previously flown booster. As time goes by and (hopefully) more previously flown boosters are employed without failure, that seems harder and harder to justify.
CRS-13 might be too early, but it will happen at some point.
Unless the contract explicitly allows the reflight of boosters, of course NASA has a right to refuse them. The qualification process was for new boosters.
NASA could probably negotiate compensation from SpaceX for allowing the reuse of boosters, such as getting additional analysis/design/testing/data that would normally be paid for as additional "special studies" contracts, or getting addtional cargo mass/payload flexibility that would otherwise incur additional charges on a CRS flight (or even CCTCap test flights).
It would be great for SpaceX. Other customers would see NASA accepting the refurbished boosters and it would provide a steady stream of launches for the refurbished boosters. The uptake of refurbished boosters by customers is promising so far but there hasn't exactly been a stampede to switch to the used boosters.
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#45
by
Mike_1179
on 16 Oct, 2017 14:41
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Does NASA contractually have the right to refuse SpaceX use a used booster? I would imagine not, for CRS at least.
Obviously SpaceX won't do it if NASA objects, but I think the question is more on the other foot, meaning what NASA's motivation is to argue that it not use a previously flown booster. As time goes by and (hopefully) more previously flown boosters are employed without failure, that seems harder and harder to justify.
CRS-13 might be too early, but it will happen at some point.
NASA is not a business. It's not trying to reduce costs or increase profits so that its shareholders get more. Part of its mandate is advancing the study aeronautics and space. Does allowing a US company to advance the study of hyersonic retropropulsion and orbital booster re-use align with those aims while still meeting the requirements of law requires them to do (ISS) while being good stewards of taxpayer money?
If it requires thousands of hours of civil-service employee time (which means it costs more), increases the cost of the flight or makes the risk of failure beyond what they see as acceptable, then of course you can see why they'd refuse to allow a re-flown booster. Even if there is no direct link between this re-use and cheaper CRS flights in the future, it is in the interest of NASA to support it at a reasonable level.
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#46
by
abaddon
on 16 Oct, 2017 14:58
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Unless the contract explicitly allows the reflight of boosters, of course NASA has a right to refuse them. The qualification process was for new boosters.
And yet we've heard many times on this site from people who appear to know what they are talking about is that NASA paid for delivery of cargo to the station, not for specific boosters or rides. Unless you've seen the contract, how do you know? I'm not claiming to know, by the way, because I don't. That's why I asked the question.
Anyway, at some point I firmly believe it will happen (yes, without specific knowledge of the contract), but I think CRS-13 is likely too soon.
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#47
by
su27k
on 16 Oct, 2017 16:53
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Does NASA contractually have the right to refuse SpaceX use a used booster? I would imagine not, for CRS at least.
Obviously SpaceX won't do it if NASA objects, but I think the question is more on the other foot, meaning what NASA's motivation is to argue that it not use a previously flown booster. As time goes by and (hopefully) more previously flown boosters are employed without failure, that seems harder and harder to justify.
CRS-13 might be too early, but it will happen at some point.
NASA can refuse if it feels the vehicle is not safe or ready based on its insights on the vehicle design and production. I don't think they can refuse just because it's reused or demand price reduction for a reused booster, since the price is written in the contract but the launch vehicle is not. We have seen both providers changing launch vehicle several times in the past, so I don't think it's a big deal, just need some work on both sides.
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#48
by
rockets4life97
on 16 Oct, 2017 18:07
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The CRS contracts are a major part of SpaceX's future manifest. If all those flights move to flight proven cores that will be a major win for SpaceX and re-use.
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#49
by
ChrisGebhardt
on 16 Oct, 2017 18:11
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#50
by
mn
on 16 Oct, 2017 21:40
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... since the price is written in the contract but the launch vehicle is not...
Do we know for a fact what is in the contract?
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#51
by
Formica
on 17 Oct, 2017 00:14
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#52
by
deruch
on 17 Oct, 2017 03:49
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From the "Customers Views on Reuse" thread:
Back on topic. In NASA's pre-launch briefing for CRS-10, Dan Hartman--Deputy Manager, ISS Program--addressed NASA's near term plans for reusing the Dragon capsule and future plans for reuse of the Falcon 9 boosters in response to a question from Stephen Clark from SFN.
Our plan for CRS-11, it's going to be the Dragon [that will be reused]. Not the Falcon, not a reused booster. We've done a lot of work with SpaceX, over the last year and a half or two, looking at delta-verification requirements that we need to be comfortable to satisfy ourselves that Dragon can approach the ISS, get within the ellipsoid, and be done safely. So, a lot of technical work is happening. I'll tell you, everything is leaning good. That the next dragon mission that we'll launch will be reused.
As far as the booster, we've just started those discussions. We've got some teams off generating how we'll even go about requesting information from SpaceX. Laying out our plan. I imagine we'll have some sort of preliminary review on that in the April/May time period. I think planning-wise, it may not happen this year. But shortly thereafter.
The exchange can be found at time mark 22m:25s in the below youtube video.
The fact that NASA has been in the process of determining exactly what needs review and how to go about approving the use of flight proven cores isn't new information. That they may be in a position to approve using one this year is.
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#53
by
vaporcobra
on 18 Oct, 2017 17:00
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TSIS confirmed to be launching on CRS-13, as well as a fancy conflicting launch date
TSIS is an International Space Station-bound instrument that will measure the sun's energy input to Earth. TSIS was build by LASP, integrated at Kennedy Space Center, and will launch in November on a SpaceX Falcon 9.
Just a fun Instagram account to follow in general, too!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BaZHxh6D3hF/
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#54
by
ChrisGebhardt
on 18 Oct, 2017 22:32
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NET 4 December at 1952 GMT (1452 EST) according to Spaceflightnow.
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#55
by
Raul
on 19 Oct, 2017 11:55
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NASA Patch for SpX-13 mission
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#56
by
ChrisGebhardt
on 19 Oct, 2017 12:40
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Per article on site, if NASA management approves flight-proven boosters for CRS missions, CRS-13 will use the CRS-11 booster from June of this year.
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#57
by
jacqmans
on 19 Oct, 2017 12:45
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NET 4 December at 1952 GMT (1452 EST) according to Spaceflightnow.
ESA confirms the Dec 04 launch date..
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#58
by
gongora
on 19 Oct, 2017 18:45
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Tweet from LASP TSIS
All planned activities at KSC are complete and TSIS is ready for turnover to SpaceX!
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#59
by
almightycat
on 25 Oct, 2017 01:01
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Wired claims that the next two cargo missions for nasa will be on flown boosters:
https://www.wired.com/story/spacex-keeps-lining-up-covert-military-launches/"NASA’s interest in SpaceX’s reusable technology seems to be growing as well. Sources at Kennedy Space Center tell WIRED that NASA and SpaceX have preliminarily agreed to launch the next two cargo resupply missions to ISS atop reusable rockets."
