Author Topic: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion  (Read 386526 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Whoa. That escalated quickly! ;D

It's a positive time, so rather than trawling back through a sudden flood of report to mods...

Keep Calm and Falcon Heavy.

--

People ignored this, so now I'm trimming the thread. You only have yourselves to blame! :)

Thread title helps you. "SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion" <---we have threads for general FH stuff and most of it was about comparing with Shuttle, which is both wrong and totally not on topic.

Sent most of the longer off topic posts back to the members who created them. Personally I'd let you all go nuts, but people complain, lots of people.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #581 on: 12/28/2017 09:36 PM »
So  is it possible they would proceed directly to static fire TODAY???!!!???
No. Not this week Only dry tests and a dry dress rehearsal per say for now. The public side should here soon as to when the Static fire and targeted launch date is.

Offline Endeavour_01

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #582 on: 12/28/2017 11:39 PM »
What a beautiful site to see. FH on the pad.  :D I have to admit those comparison images that Lars-J posted make me feel a bit emotional. I guarantee you that if this thing launches during my Physics II class I am stopping lecture and putting it up on the screen. I have a good feeling that we will be witnessing an important part of space history.  :D
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Online david1971

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #583 on: 12/29/2017 02:26 AM »
I guarantee you that if this thing launches during my Physics II class I am stopping lecture and putting it up on the screen. I have a good feeling that we will be witnessing an important part of space history.  :D

You won't be the only physics professor doing that.

Offline Brovane

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #584 on: 12/29/2017 03:00 AM »
Is this just a fit test with payload/fairing attached to verify the TEL and will it be removed before the static fire?

 
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline mme

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #585 on: 12/29/2017 05:31 AM »
Is this just a fit test with payload/fairing attached to verify the TEL and will it be removed before the static fire?
I bet they leave it attached. It's not a "real" payload. But I have no inside information.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #586 on: 12/29/2017 06:20 AM »
ISTM it gets either a ride to space or a Viking funeral. Either is preferable to an auto parts yard.
« Last Edit: 12/29/2017 06:24 AM by docmordrid »
DM

Online zhangmdev

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #587 on: 12/29/2017 07:36 AM »
Will this static fire test be different? Longer duration? 20 sec? Or multiple times?
 

Offline topopesto

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #588 on: 12/29/2017 07:57 AM »
I'm very happy for this new news! I like to see the FH on the PAD 39A. The 2018 to start good!

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #589 on: 12/29/2017 08:45 AM »
It amazes me how difficult it is to scale some of these pictures in my head. I didn't really understand how wide the FH payload fairing is until I saw that a Tesla Roadster can be fit in one horizontally rather than be flipped up so it points along the long axis of the fairing!
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Offline ricmsmith

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #590 on: 12/29/2017 08:59 AM »
Is this just a fit test with payload/fairing attached to verify the TEL and will it be removed before the static fire?

 

I'm almost certain they'll leave it attached, it's not a customer payload - just a mass simulator, it's not a point of failure during the static fire. In fact, fuelling and COPV issues aside, I don't think the static fire itself is going to be at all problematic, certainly not from a catastrophic failure point of view. Things are only really going to get interesting post launch. Can they control 27 engines across 3 cores and keep them balanced? Will there be unanticipated mechanical or (perhaps more likely) aerodynamic loads? Any of those could lead to mission failure.

I don't have any inside line on this, just my personal view.

Offline matt_ellis

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #591 on: 12/29/2017 09:17 AM »
Is this just a fit test with payload/fairing attached to verify the TEL and will it be removed before the static fire?

 

I'm almost certain they'll leave it attached, it's not a customer payload - just a mass simulator, it's not a point of failure during the static fire. In fact, fuelling and COPV issues aside, I don't think the static fire itself is going to be at all problematic, certainly not from a catastrophic failure point of view. Things are only really going to get interesting post launch. Can they control 27 engines across 3 cores and keep them balanced? Will there be unanticipated mechanical or (perhaps more likely) aerodynamic loads? Any of those could lead to mission failure.

I don't have any inside line on this, just my personal view.

I think the static fire test has the potential to be interesting for exactly the same reasons as you list for launch - getting all 27 engines to fire up in a balanced manor without RUD... (e.g. torque stresses ripping the rocket apart, not to mention 3 times the potential failure points of a standard F9) 

No doubt the SpaceX engineers have run numerous simulations and looked at data from the nearly 50(!) previous F9 launches, but I am sure there will be a 'Pucker Factor' on this test as well as the launch.

Offline JamesH65

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #592 on: 12/29/2017 09:21 AM »
Is this just a fit test with payload/fairing attached to verify the TEL and will it be removed before the static fire?

 

I'm almost certain they'll leave it attached, it's not a customer payload - just a mass simulator, it's not a point of failure during the static fire. In fact, fuelling and COPV issues aside, I don't think the static fire itself is going to be at all problematic, certainly not from a catastrophic failure point of view. Things are only really going to get interesting post launch. Can they control 27 engines across 3 cores and keep them balanced? Will there be unanticipated mechanical or (perhaps more likely) aerodynamic loads? Any of those could lead to mission failure.

I don't have any inside line on this, just my personal view.

My view on the multi engine control thing is it's not a problem. They already control 9 engines very successfully. There are of course some added complications (The three cores need to be synchronised to know what each is doing in order to compensate for things going on) , but they have had a long time to work through the control software and should have it pretty much good enough by now! As for aero loads, again, they have had years to work this out in CFD sims, which of course are not perfect, but pretty damn good.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #593 on: 12/29/2017 10:12 AM »
Is this just a fit test with payload/fairing attached to verify the TEL and will it be removed before the static fire?

The only reason to remove the payload before the static fire is to protect the customer's payload from any possible catastrophic failure during the test. That isn't a consideration for this flight.
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Online StuffOfInterest

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #594 on: 12/29/2017 10:15 AM »
Seeing all of the photos of the FH vertical left me with two questions, one that can be answered if someone has better eyes than me and one that probably can't be answered yet.

First, can anyone tell if the TE is providing support to the top of the side boosters or are they only supported by the attachment to the center core?  The pictures of the back side of the rocket are not very clear and although it looks like there may be something back there I can't tell for sure.

Second, I know the top support will fold forward to get out of the way of the grid fins.  Any speculation on if that support will fold while the center core is under thrust or if they will wait until staging to fold it?  When the side boosters go I presume the rocket will be above enough of the atmosphere that there won't be any significant aerodynamic load on the support so it may just make sense to let it stay out there until first stage thrust shuts off.  Less power in the retraction piston required.

Online Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #595 on: 12/29/2017 10:53 AM »
My guess is they’ll remove the payload prior to static fire. Why? Because that’s now SOP for their customers’ payloads. So they will want to try to replicate that process as accurately as possible. Additionally, demating and mating a payload to a FH stack would be good practice as I’m sure there are subtle differences to the same operation for F9.

Regardless, we’ll know soon enough. Which is amazing!
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Online Chris Bergin

Yeah, I'm really not sure. Standard is to remove the payload, but yes it's not some expensive satellite....and they may want some three core ignition data on how the entire stack behaves.

I've seen notes claiming both scenarios, so I don't know for sure.

More people heading down to KSC today, so let's keep an eye on the rocket, in case they lower her off the pad, so we can at least warn people on a several hour car trip.

Offline deruch

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #597 on: 12/29/2017 12:07 PM »
Yeah, I'm really not sure. Standard is to remove the payload, but yes it's not some expensive satellite....and they may want some three core ignition data on how the entire stack behaves.

I've seen notes claiming both scenarios, so I don't know for sure.

More people heading down to KSC today, so let's keep an eye on the rocket, in case they lower her off the pad, so we can at least warn people on a several hour car trip.

I really wish SpaceX (or somebody else who had cameras in the vicinity) would livestream the first Falcon Heavy SF, like what happened for the first Falcon 9.  Even with zero commentary, discussion, talking, etc.  That would definitely be lit.  [sorry, couldn't help myself there]

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20787.0
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Online envy887

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Re: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #598 on: 12/29/2017 12:13 PM »
My guess is they’ll remove the payload prior to static fire. Why? Because that’s now SOP for their customers’ payloads. So they will want to try to replicate that process as accurately as possible. Additionally, demating and mating a payload to a FH stack would be good practice as I’m sure there are subtle differences to the same operation for F9.

Regardless, we’ll know soon enough. Which is amazing!

SOP is to fire first, then mate the payload. They don't demate during a nominal flow.

Online Chris Bergin

Yeah, I'm really not sure. Standard is to remove the payload, but yes it's not some expensive satellite....and they may want some three core ignition data on how the entire stack behaves.

I've seen notes claiming both scenarios, so I don't know for sure.

More people heading down to KSC today, so let's keep an eye on the rocket, in case they lower her off the pad, so we can at least warn people on a several hour car trip.

I really wish SpaceX (or somebody else who had cameras in the vicinity) would livestream the first Falcon Heavy SF, like what happened for the first Falcon 9.  Even with zero commentary, discussion, talking, etc.  That would definitely be lit.  [sorry, couldn't help myself there]


http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20787.0


Good call. I'll ask them as they absolutely have all the cameras for it.

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