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#280
by
jjyach
on 07 Dec, 2017 14:55
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Sorry if I missed this but has the TEL been moved back into the HIF? Last I heard it was on the pad for modifications.
I believe yesterday it was still up at the pad. Most of the crews at 39A went over to 40 to help.
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#281
by
Proponent
on 07 Dec, 2017 15:27
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That's true, but this stage would be lightly loaded for the TMI burn and completely loaded after that, which should improve the delta-V noticeably.
I think you have that backwards, but good point. What's the mass ratio between a roadster and an FH S2?
Quite right, I meant
unloaded and have corrected my previous post accordingly.
This site gives 2690 kg for a 2010 Tesla Roadster. And this one won't need its full complement batteries, so it could easily be quite a bit lighter. Either way, it's much less than
Falcon Heavy's stated TMI payload of 16,800 kg.
On the Falcon simulation threads, someone must have worked pretty hard on estimating the stage's relevant masses, but let's start with
Space Launch Report's estimates that the stage's dry mass at about 4100 kg and the propellant load a bit over 100,000 kg. So, with the standard TMI payload, the mass ratio is 5.79 and the delta-V is 6000 m/s, assuming a vacuum specific impulse of 348 s.
Replace the standard TMI payload with a Tesla Roadster, and we've got a mass ratio of 15.7 and a delta-V of 9400 m/s. In other words, we pick up an extra 3400 m/s, even if we assume that the Roadster remains attached to depletion. And we actually do a little better than that, since the delta-V provided by the boosters and first stage will increase a bit due to the decreased payload mass. Jettison the Roadster after TMI, and the delta-V increases further.
These numbers are rough, but they do suggest there is some delta-V to play with.
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#282
by
envy887
on 07 Dec, 2017 15:31
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That's true, but this stage would be lightly loaded for the TMI burn and completely loaded after that, which should improve the delta-V noticeably.
I think you have that backwards, but good point. What's the mass ratio between a roadster and an FH S2?
Quite right, I meant unloaded and have corrected my previous post accordingly.
This site gives 2690 kg for a 2010 Tesla Roadster. And this one won't need its full complement batteries, so it could easily be quite a bit lighter. Either way, it's much less than Falcon Heavy's stated TMI payload of 16,800 kg.
On the Falcon simulation threads, someone must have worked pretty hard on estimating the stage's relevant masses, but let's start with Space Launch Report's estimates that the stage's dry mass at about 4100 kg and the propellant load a bit over 100,000 kg. So, with the standard TMI payload, the mass ratio is 5.79 and the delta-V is 6000 m/s, assuming a vacuum specific impulse of 348 s.
Replace the standard TMI payload with a Tesla Roadster, and we've got a mass ratio of 15.7 and a delta-V of 9400 m/s. In other words, we pick up an extra 3400 m/s, even if we assume that the Roadster remains attached to depletion. And we actually do a little better than that, since the delta-V provided by the boosters and first stage will increase a bit due to the decreased payload mass. Jettison the Roadster after TMI, and the delta-V increases further.
These numbers are rough, but they do suggest there is some delta-V to play with.
Those are pounds, not kg. See the curb weight at Car and Driver:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2010-tesla-roadster-sport-instrumented-test
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#283
by
Nomadd
on 07 Dec, 2017 15:38
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This site gives 2690 kg for a 2010 Tesla Roadster. And this one won't need its full complement batteries, so it could easily be quite a bit lighter. Either way, it's much less than Falcon Heavy's stated TMI payload of 16,800 kg.
On the Falcon simulation threads, someone must have worked pretty hard on estimating the stage's relevant masses, but let's start with Space Launch Report's estimates that the stage's dry mass at about 4100 kg and the propellant load a bit over 100,000 kg. So, with the standard TMI payload, the mass ratio is 5.79 and the delta-V is 6000 m/s, assuming a vacuum specific impulse of 348 s.
Replace the standard TMI payload with a Tesla Roadster, and we've got a mass ratio of 15.7 and a delta-V of 9400 m/s. In other words, we pick up an extra 3400 m/s, even if we assume that the Roadster remains attached to depletion. And we actually do a little better than that, since the delta-V provided by the boosters and first stage will increase a bit due to the decreased payload mass. Jettison the Roadster after TMI, and the delta-V increases further.
These numbers are rough, but they do suggest there is some delta-V to play with.
Those are pounds, not kg. See the curb weight at Car and Driver:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2010-tesla-roadster-sport-instrumented-test
Where were you when the Mars Climate Orbiter was on it's way?
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#284
by
russianhalo117
on 07 Dec, 2017 15:59
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Sorry if I missed this but has the TEL been moved back into the HIF? Last I heard it was on the pad for modifications.
I believe yesterday it was still up at the pad. Most of the crews at 39A went over to 40 to help.
I recall that a final 2 week stint on the pad is required to finish everything for FH and that started when ZUMA's launcher was demated from the TEL and the TEL rolled back out and fully secured at the pad.
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#285
by
Formica
on 07 Dec, 2017 16:51
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All credit to
u/TheRealWhiskers on Reddit. Here's some shots of the TEL at 39A and a peek inside the HIF. All eight holddowns are clearly installed and the F9 baskets can be seen removed from the base. The pictures were taken over the past three days.
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#286
by
StuffOfInterest
on 07 Dec, 2017 18:45
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The picture of the pickup next to the baskets sure gives a sense of scale.
I can see the hold-downs, but can any confirm if the rest of the tail service masts have been installed?
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#287
by
russianhalo117
on 07 Dec, 2017 19:15
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All TSM's have been installed to the reaction frame, which is visibly confirmed by your photo and the pictures in Formica's post.
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#288
by
rsdavis9
on 07 Dec, 2017 19:49
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For the "what an object looks like" challenged...
The baskets are right above the pickup truck to the right and left?
I thought those looked like the hold down clamps?
Can somebody help me and put an arrow to a basket and a clamp?
Also what does the basket do?
thanks
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#289
by
nacnud
on 07 Dec, 2017 19:54
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The baskets are the white framework either side of the pickup. They support the weight of the rocket when it's vertical.
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#290
by
Johnnyhinbos
on 07 Dec, 2017 19:58
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Just to add a bit more clarity - the baskets are the white structures that live on the underside of the frame. The hold downs are attached to the baskets. You are seeing both the removed hold downs AND the baskets. All one structure.
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#291
by
Bob Shaw
on 07 Dec, 2017 20:16
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What I’m reading here suggests to me that one of Musk’s objectives with this launch might be bragging rights regarding his Tesla making a fast transit to the distance of Mars (though IIRC Pioneer 10 & 11 are likely to remain the fastest spacecraft, his Tesla would be the first and fastest man-rated vehicle to make the journey). And yes, I appreciate that this thread isn’t about payloads, but I reckon that the trajectory aspect makes this the appropriate place for this post!
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#292
by
Chris_Pi
on 10 Dec, 2017 19:15
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In that last photo through the open HIF door, Am I seeing a Heavy center/side core top connection with maybe a S2 in front of the side core? I think that's what it is.
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#293
by
shuttlefan
on 10 Dec, 2017 19:46
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So is 39-A still capable of launching a Falcon 9 or has the configuration for Falcon Heavy taken that capability away?
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#294
by
cppetrie
on 10 Dec, 2017 19:57
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So is 39-A still capable of launching a Falcon 9 or has the configuration for Falcon Heavy taken that capability away?
Still can do single sticks. Just swap out compression bridges and swap in hold down baskets. Probably a day or two op max.
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#295
by
jpo234
on 10 Dec, 2017 21:14
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So is 39-A still capable of launching a Falcon 9 or has the configuration for Falcon Heavy taken that capability away?
Since 39A is the pad for Commercial Crew, it has to be able to handle regular F9s.
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#296
by
vaporcobra
on 10 Dec, 2017 21:54
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Pro tip: If you have time to ask questions about it here, please please please read around a bit first (SpaceNews, NASASpaceflight (!), Florida Today, etc.). Articles posted this week alone can answer all your questions and then some, more likely than not.
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#297
by
Michael Baylor
on 11 Dec, 2017 15:50
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SpaceX's Jenson at the CRS13 press conference confirms that the Falcon Heavy static fire is still on for this year. Launch will take place "a few weeks after that." All regulations are being followed for the Tesla Roadster.
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#298
by
AbuSimbel
on 11 Dec, 2017 17:15
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The original plan was to fit test FH by the end of November and Fire it 15 days later. If the SF is now slated for the end of December we should see the beast vertical on the pad soon. A few days after CRS-13 maybe?
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#299
by
jimvela
on 14 Dec, 2017 00:05
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No idea if this actually belongs in this section, but...
I was taking a sponsored community college kid on a bus tour at KSC a few days back on the 8th.
We got stopped by the escort vehicles for... this.
Headed to 39A as far as I could tell...