Author Topic: SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : early 2018 : Discussion (non-payload)  (Read 149170 times)

Offline Basto

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Sorry if I missed this but has the TEL been moved back into the HIF?  Last I heard it was on the pad for modifications.

Offline cscott

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2 km/s is not a small number for a kerolox stage, hence why I'm pretty skeptical we'll be seeing this happen.

That's true, but this stage would be lightly loaded for the TMI burn and completely loaded after that, which should improve the delta-V noticeably.
I think you have that backwards, but good point. What's the mass ratio between a roadster and an FH S2?

Online jjyach

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Sorry if I missed this but has the TEL been moved back into the HIF?  Last I heard it was on the pad for modifications.

I believe yesterday it was still up at the pad.  Most of the crews at 39A went over to 40 to help.

Offline Proponent

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That's true, but this stage would be lightly loaded for the TMI burn and completely loaded after that, which should improve the delta-V noticeably.
I think you have that backwards, but good point. What's the mass ratio between a roadster and an FH S2?

Quite right, I meant unloaded and have corrected my previous post accordingly.

This site gives 2690 kg for a 2010 Tesla Roadster.  And this one won't need its full complement batteries, so it could easily be quite a bit lighter.  Either way, it's much less than Falcon Heavy's stated TMI payload of 16,800 kg.

On the Falcon simulation threads, someone must have worked pretty hard on estimating the stage's relevant masses, but let's start with Space Launch Report's estimates that the stage's dry mass at about 4100 kg and the propellant load a bit over 100,000 kg.  So, with the standard TMI payload, the mass ratio is 5.79 and the delta-V is 6000 m/s, assuming a vacuum specific impulse of 348 s.

Replace the standard TMI payload with a Tesla Roadster, and we've got a mass ratio of 15.7 and a delta-V of 9400 m/s.  In other words, we pick up an extra 3400 m/s, even if we assume that the Roadster remains attached to depletion.  And we actually do a little better than that, since the delta-V provided by the boosters and first stage will increase a bit due to the decreased payload mass.  Jettison the Roadster after TMI, and the delta-V increases further.

These numbers are rough, but they do suggest there is some delta-V to play with.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2017 03:31 PM by Proponent »

Offline envy887

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That's true, but this stage would be lightly loaded for the TMI burn and completely loaded after that, which should improve the delta-V noticeably.
I think you have that backwards, but good point. What's the mass ratio between a roadster and an FH S2?

Quite right, I meant unloaded and have corrected my previous post accordingly.

This site gives 2690 kg for a 2010 Tesla Roadster.  And this one won't need its full complement batteries, so it could easily be quite a bit lighter.  Either way, it's much less than Falcon Heavy's stated TMI payload of 16,800 kg.

On the Falcon simulation threads, someone must have worked pretty hard on estimating the stage's relevant masses, but let's start with Space Launch Report's estimates that the stage's dry mass at about 4100 kg and the propellant load a bit over 100,000 kg.  So, with the standard TMI payload, the mass ratio is 5.79 and the delta-V is 6000 m/s, assuming a vacuum specific impulse of 348 s.

Replace the standard TMI payload with a Tesla Roadster, and we've got a mass ratio of 15.7 and a delta-V of 9400 m/s.  In other words, we pick up an extra 3400 m/s, even if we assume that the Roadster remains attached to depletion.  And we actually do a little better than that, since the delta-V provided by the boosters and first stage will increase a bit due to the decreased payload mass.  Jettison the Roadster after TMI, and the delta-V increases further.

These numbers are rough, but they do suggest there is some delta-V to play with.

Those are pounds, not kg. See the curb weight at Car and Driver:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2010-tesla-roadster-sport-instrumented-test
« Last Edit: 12/07/2017 03:31 PM by envy887 »

Offline Nomadd

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This site gives 2690 kg for a 2010 Tesla Roadster.  And this one won't need its full complement batteries, so it could easily be quite a bit lighter.  Either way, it's much less than Falcon Heavy's stated TMI payload of 16,800 kg.

On the Falcon simulation threads, someone must have worked pretty hard on estimating the stage's relevant masses, but let's start with Space Launch Report's estimates that the stage's dry mass at about 4100 kg and the propellant load a bit over 100,000 kg.  So, with the standard TMI payload, the mass ratio is 5.79 and the delta-V is 6000 m/s, assuming a vacuum specific impulse of 348 s.

Replace the standard TMI payload with a Tesla Roadster, and we've got a mass ratio of 15.7 and a delta-V of 9400 m/s.  In other words, we pick up an extra 3400 m/s, even if we assume that the Roadster remains attached to depletion.  And we actually do a little better than that, since the delta-V provided by the boosters and first stage will increase a bit due to the decreased payload mass.  Jettison the Roadster after TMI, and the delta-V increases further.

These numbers are rough, but they do suggest there is some delta-V to play with.

Those are pounds, not kg. See the curb weight at Car and Driver:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2010-tesla-roadster-sport-instrumented-test
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Offline russianhalo117

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Sorry if I missed this but has the TEL been moved back into the HIF?  Last I heard it was on the pad for modifications.

I believe yesterday it was still up at the pad.  Most of the crews at 39A went over to 40 to help.
I recall that a final 2 week stint on the pad is required to finish everything for FH and that started when ZUMA's launcher was demated from the TEL and the TEL rolled back out and fully secured at the pad.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2017 04:01 PM by russianhalo117 »

Offline Formica

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All credit to u/TheRealWhiskers on Reddit. Here's some shots of the TEL at 39A and a peek inside the HIF. All eight holddowns are clearly installed and the F9 baskets can be seen removed from the base. The pictures were taken over the past three days.
« Last Edit: 12/07/2017 04:56 PM by Formica »

Offline StuffOfInterest

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The picture of the pickup next to the baskets sure gives a sense of scale.

I can see the hold-downs, but can any confirm if the rest of the tail service masts have been installed?

Offline russianhalo117

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All TSM's have been installed to the reaction frame, which is visibly confirmed by your photo and the pictures in Formica's post.

Offline rsdavis9

For the "what an object looks like" challenged...

The baskets are right above the pickup truck to the right and left?
I thought those looked like the hold down clamps?
Can somebody help me and put an arrow to a basket and a clamp?
Also what does the basket do?

thanks
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Offline nacnud

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The baskets are the white framework either side of the pickup. They support the weight of the rocket when it's vertical.

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Just to add a bit more clarity - the baskets are the white structures that live on the underside of the frame. The hold downs are attached to the baskets. You are seeing both the removed hold downs AND the baskets. All one structure.
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Offline Bob Shaw

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What Iím reading here suggests to me that one of Muskís objectives with this launch might be bragging rights regarding his Tesla making a fast transit to the distance of Mars (though IIRC Pioneer 10 & 11 are likely to remain the fastest spacecraft, his Tesla would be the first and fastest man-rated vehicle to make the journey). And yes, I appreciate that this thread isnít about payloads, but I reckon that the trajectory aspect makes this the appropriate place for this post!

Online Chris_Pi

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In that last photo through the open HIF door, Am I seeing a Heavy center/side core top connection with maybe a S2 in front of the side core? I think that's what it is.

Offline shuttlefan

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So is 39-A still capable of launching a Falcon 9 or has the configuration for Falcon Heavy taken that capability away?

Offline cppetrie

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So is 39-A still capable of launching a Falcon 9 or has the configuration for Falcon Heavy taken that capability away?
Still can do single sticks. Just swap out compression bridges and swap in hold down baskets. Probably a day or two op max.

Offline jpo234

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So is 39-A still capable of launching a Falcon 9 or has the configuration for Falcon Heavy taken that capability away?
Since 39A is the pad for Commercial Crew, it has to be able to handle regular F9s.
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Offline Michael Baylor

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SpaceX's Jenson at the CRS13 press conference confirms that the Falcon Heavy static fire is still on for this year. Launch will take place "a few weeks after that." All regulations are being followed for the Tesla Roadster.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:50 PM by Michael Baylor »

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