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#1240
by
pb2000
on 21 Jan, 2018 21:29
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Can SpaceX just pay the right people to come to work or are there some sort of rules similar to strikes/lockouts?
SpaceX doesn't pay for gov't workers directly
Which is why I asked if they could...
We are not talking about people to move road blocks, these are people trained to operate sophisticated equipment in government buildings. Access to buildings would be restricted, and skilled workers impossible to come by on short notice.
He didn't say hire replacements, he said to pay the appropriate people.
Technically, the answer is probably yes; practically the answer is probably not. If you have a contract, the gov't could expend your contract money to work, but the contracts people won't be working. I've worked with a gov't group that (in previous shutdowns) used money received through FMS (Foreign Military Sales) to keep people working. You just don't have FY18 budgetary funding. If you have prior year money, you can generally spend that, as the Smithsonian said was their plan. Or you can use money received by other means. Depending on their accounting, the range probably could stay open by expending range fees, if those fees are received directly into their accounts and not into more general ones. But if they don't do their accounting that way, or just don't feel like shuffling things there's not anything you can do.
Yeah, my bad on the ambiguity. Paying the salaries of the currently furloughed employees so they can work is indeed what I meant.
Hopefully the government sorts this out smart quick, but I'm sure someone at SpaceX is thinking about this, should it drag on for a while.
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#1241
by
ehb
on 21 Jan, 2018 21:55
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Can SpaceX just pay the right people to come to work or are there some sort of rules similar to strikes/lockouts?
SpaceX doesn't pay for gov't workers directly
Which is why I asked if they could...
We are not talking about people to move road blocks, these are people trained to operate sophisticated equipment in government buildings. Access to buildings would be restricted, and skilled workers impossible to come by on short notice.
He didn't say hire replacements, he said to pay the appropriate people.
Technically, the answer is probably yes; practically the answer is probably not.
...
Yeah, my bad on the ambiguity. Paying the salaries of the currently furloughed employees so they can work is indeed what I meant.
Hopefully the government sorts this out smart quick, but I'm sure someone at SpaceX is thinking about this, should it drag on for a while.
FWIW - I have a colleague working as a scientist at NIST that is furloughed now. They are not allowed to work in the field they are trained for at all! Nor maintain communications via email, phone etc. Don't know if this is NIST specific.
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#1242
by
gongora
on 21 Jan, 2018 21:58
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FWIW - I have a colleague working as a scientist at NIST that is furloughed now. They are not allowed to work in the field they are trained for at all! Nor maintain communications via email, phone etc. Don't know if this is NIST specific.
It's not NIST specific.
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#1243
by
midnightrider3000
on 21 Jan, 2018 21:59
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He didn't say hire replacements, he said to pay the appropriate people.
Does SpaceX pay any fees anytime they launch, WDR or static fires?
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#1244
by
Lar
on 21 Jan, 2018 22:10
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He didn't say hire replacements, he said to pay the appropriate people.
Does SpaceX pay any fees anytime they launch, WDR or static fires?
I heard a campaign all in runs about 1.5mil in fees, but I have no source for that, nor any idea if it is more for more attempts, more WDRs etc...
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#1245
by
gongora
on 21 Jan, 2018 22:38
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#1246
by
RocketLover0119
on 21 Jan, 2018 23:02
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welp, they got 2 options, either they continue WDRing ( no range needed), or they rollback and let everybody rest.
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#1247
by
mme
on 21 Jan, 2018 23:11
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welp, they got 2 options, either they continue WDRing ( no range needed), or they rollback and let everybody rest.
Or continue WDRing until everything looks perfect and then rollback and let some people rest and others get back to removing the RSS.
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#1248
by
IanThePineapple
on 21 Jan, 2018 23:39
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welp, they got 2 options, either they continue WDRing ( no range needed), or they rollback and let everybody rest.
Or continue WDRing until everything looks perfect and then rollback and let some people rest and others get back to removing the RSS.
Sounds like what they might do IMO. WDR the crap out of it, then give the poor thing a rest and work on the RSS and do some extreme data studying (New Olympic sport?
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#1249
by
Yeknom-Ecaps
on 21 Jan, 2018 23:49
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Is there a list of the all of the dates that WDRs actually occurred on since FH was raised on the pad on the 9th?
Several "looks like" or "could be" entries in posts/observations.
Thanks.
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#1250
by
CameronD
on 21 Jan, 2018 23:57
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welp, they got 2 options, either they continue WDRing ( no range needed), or they rollback and let everybody rest.
Or continue WDRing until everything looks perfect and then rollback and let some people rest and others get back to removing the RSS.
Sounds like what they might do IMO. WDR the crap out of it, then give the poor thing a rest and work on the RSS and do some extreme data studying (New Olympic sport? ).
There ARE risks (and costs) associated with WDRs, so I wouldn't expect them to do any more than they absolutely need to. Better to give themselves a rest.. or study more data.
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#1251
by
yokem55
on 22 Jan, 2018 00:58
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He didn't say hire replacements, he said to pay the appropriate people.
Does SpaceX pay any fees anytime they launch, WDR or static fires?
I heard a campaign all in runs about 1.5mil in fees, but I have no source for that, nor any idea if it is more for more attempts, more WDRs etc...
Hang on, if SpaceX is paying fees to the range for their ops, why is the range affected by the shutdown? I thought that if an agency or activity is funded through user fees, it could continue to operate? Is too much of the overall funding of the range not from the commercial operator fees?
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#1252
by
Jim
on 22 Jan, 2018 01:51
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He didn't say hire replacements, he said to pay the appropriate people.
Does SpaceX pay any fees anytime they launch, WDR or static fires?
I heard a campaign all in runs about 1.5mil in fees, but I have no source for that, nor any idea if it is more for more attempts, more WDRs etc...
Hang on, if SpaceX is paying fees to the range for their ops, why is the range affected by the shutdown? I thought that if an agency or activity is funded through user fees, it could continue to operate? Is too much of the overall funding of the range not from the commercial operator fees?
User fees only funds an offset and not the greater portion
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#1253
by
pb2000
on 22 Jan, 2018 04:41
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He didn't say hire replacements, he said to pay the appropriate people.
Does SpaceX pay any fees anytime they launch, WDR or static fires?
I heard a campaign all in runs about 1.5mil in fees, but I have no source for that, nor any idea if it is more for more attempts, more WDRs etc...
Hang on, if SpaceX is paying fees to the range for their ops, why is the range affected by the shutdown? I thought that if an agency or activity is funded through user fees, it could continue to operate? Is too much of the overall funding of the range not from the commercial operator fees?
User fees only funds an offset and not the greater portion
Lar had an unconfirmed value of 1.5m per launch campaign for commercial launches, so lots(ish) of external money is funding it. The military part of it is much more difficult to quantify and making accurate cost assignments therein is...well *****d if I know.
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#1254
by
Jim
on 22 Jan, 2018 05:35
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Lar had an unconfirmed value of 1.5m per launch campaign for commercial launches, so lots(ish) of external money is funding it. The military part of it is much more difficult to quantify and making accurate cost assignments therein is...well *****d if I know.
That isn't lots. And it isn't funding the range, it is funding the direct support that Spacex gets such as range safety analysis or overtime work. It does not pay for keeping the doors open.
The range is a mix of civil servants, military and contractor personnel.
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#1255
by
woods170
on 22 Jan, 2018 07:02
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Keep in mind that FH has a key value to NSS for the program to advance. Few could launch the largest payloads.
Not really
How long has a DIVH sit on the pad, 9 months?
So, you like to live with no contingencies, no backup? Doesn't sound like the AF I've known.
Not the best of arguments. USAF has been without a backup for Delta IVH since 2005. Why would they be in a rush to have one now?
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#1256
by
deruch
on 22 Jan, 2018 13:23
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Hang on, if SpaceX is paying fees to the range for their ops, why is the range affected by the shutdown? I thought that if an agency or activity is funded through user fees, it could continue to operate? Is too much of the overall funding of the range not from the commercial operator fees?
SpaceX is paying for the marginal costs of their launch, but not the general overhead of running the range. Or maybe the marginal costs plus some nominal amount towards overhead on a per launch basis. But the range is multiuser and many of those uses are not going to be done during shutdown. SpaceX paying only their portion doesn't cover everything.
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#1257
by
Jim
on 22 Jan, 2018 13:49
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Keep in mind that FH has a key value to NSS for the program to advance. Few could launch the largest payloads.
Not really
How long has a DIVH sit on the pad, 9 months?
So, you like to live with no contingencies, no backup? Doesn't sound like the AF I've known.
Not the best of arguments. USAF has been without a backup for Delta IVH since 2005. Why would they be in a rush to have one now?
Or Titan IV from 1989 to 2004
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#1258
by
LouScheffer
on 22 Jan, 2018 13:58
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I heard a campaign all in runs about 1.5mil in fees, but I have no source for that, nor any idea if it is more for more attempts, more WDRs etc...
Hang on, if SpaceX is paying fees to the range for their ops, why is the range affected by the shutdown? I thought that if an agency or activity is funded through user fees, it could continue to operate? Is too much of the overall funding of the range not from the commercial operator fees?
User fees only funds an offset and not the greater portion
It would appear from the article
Raytheon Team Wins $2 Billion Air Force Range Support Contract, on contracts to run the Eastern and Western ranges, that the total government expenditures to run the ranges is about $200 million per year. Even if there was a launch per week, that would be about $4 million per launch.
So if the user fees are indeed $1.5 million per launch, they are nowhere close to covering the cost of running the range. Of course the range also supports military and other government operations, so commercial launches should not be expected to pay for all of it, but it looks like commercial launches are paying a pretty small share.
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#1259
by
clongton
on 22 Jan, 2018 14:00
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Bottom line is that range personnel are either government employees or government contract employees. Either way their paychecks are funded by government expenditures. So when there is a government shutdown no government employee except essential personnel get paid. So until the shutdown is over all non-essential activities are suspended. That includes everything Falcon Heavy. It is shut down.
This is rapidly becoming a dead horse that people want to keep beating and is also in danger of going off topic so can we please just accept the bad news and leave it alone?
).