Author Topic: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA  (Read 8591 times)

Offline eeergo

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Offline Blackstar

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #1 on: 03/06/2017 01:50 AM »
Nothing "possibly" about it--that's exactly what it is. QUASAR is derived from Intelsat VI, which you can see in the back right of the artwork.

« Last Edit: 03/06/2017 01:54 AM by Blackstar »

Offline Star One

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #2 on: 03/06/2017 06:00 AM »
So it may have been sitting in an NRO warehouse for quite a while dependent on if the QUASAR was still using the same bus up until 2014 or if it stopped in the mid-nineties. The former seems more likely than the latter.

Offline redliox

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #3 on: 03/06/2017 06:49 AM »
Not really sure what this could be used for either scientifically or as a testbed.  There were some comments made in the Space News website that got my attention though:

Quote
Syrio35 • a day ago
Data relay for missions to far side of the moon.

Avatar
MrSmartyAss • a day ago
Won't we need at some point a high-speed communications satellite for the Lunar poles?

Avatar
Eisenhorn • 2 days ago
Lunar orbit-based Laser Data Platform. Beef up the DSN relays with it in preparation for future Lunar missions , and the Mars Launch Glut of 2020.

Given that this satellite, while intended for military use, is essentially the core of a communication satellite, may as well use it as a lunar communication satellite.  Maybe attach a cubesat or 2 for more specific bonus sciences.  As far as where to put the thing, how about circling L2 where it can assist Far Side and otherwise distant communication?  Perhaps even with optical laser com to boot.
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Offline eeergo

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #4 on: 03/06/2017 08:20 AM »
Perhaps even with optical laser com to boot.

A spinning platform may not easily host laser comms?
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Offline redliox

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #5 on: 03/06/2017 09:03 AM »
Perhaps even with optical laser com to boot.

A spinning platform may not easily host laser comms?

True, but bear in mind Galileo was ALSO a spinning spacecraft, even more complicated than this thing.
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Offline eeergo

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #6 on: 03/06/2017 09:44 AM »
Perhaps even with optical laser com to boot.

A spinning platform may not easily host laser comms?

True, but bear in mind Galileo was ALSO a spinning spacecraft, even more complicated than this thing.

3 vs ~30 rpm ;) I agree it wouldn't be insurmountable, but at that point it'd possibly be cheaper to go with q current commercial 3-axis stabilized bus
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Offline Star One

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #7 on: 03/06/2017 10:45 AM »
Not really sure what this could be used for either scientifically or as a testbed.  There were some comments made in the Space News website that got my attention though:

Quote
Syrio35 • a day ago
Data relay for missions to far side of the moon.

Avatar
MrSmartyAss • a day ago
Won't we need at some point a high-speed communications satellite for the Lunar poles?

Avatar
Eisenhorn • 2 days ago
Lunar orbit-based Laser Data Platform. Beef up the DSN relays with it in preparation for future Lunar missions , and the Mars Launch Glut of 2020.

Given that this satellite, while intended for military use, is essentially the core of a communication satellite, may as well use it as a lunar communication satellite.  Maybe attach a cubesat or 2 for more specific bonus sciences.  As far as where to put the thing, how about circling L2 where it can assist Far Side and otherwise distant communication?  Perhaps even with optical laser com to boot.

I wonder if it being made to military specifications rather than civilian has made it more suitable for such an extreme mission, it probably has a higher level of redundancy.

Offline Jim

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #8 on: 03/06/2017 10:50 AM »
The bus has a despun platform.  What do you think kept the other antennas pointed at earth.

But anything outside of GEO is not really feasible.  It was not designed for that environment nor does the vehicle have the navigation/sensors other locations (just has sun and earth sensors for pointing at earth from GEO)

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #9 on: 03/06/2017 02:09 PM »
The bus has a despun platform.  What do you think kept the other antennas pointed at earth.

But anything outside of GEO is not really feasible.  It was not designed for that environment nor does the vehicle have the navigation/sensors other locations (just has sun and earth sensors for pointing at earth from GEO)

Jim, just a small nit. Where not the original Molniya orbit SDS/Quasar's also spin stabilized... Is it not possible this satellite was intended for a Molniya orbit and not GEO?



I now suspect a Mars relay is a no go only due to the lower amount of sunlight (less solar power) and different thermal environment.

Btw. As I pointed in the KH-11 KENNEN thread, here are the specs. of what you can do with the platform.
 
« Last Edit: 03/06/2017 02:51 PM by kevin-rf »
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Offline baldusi

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #10 on: 03/06/2017 02:38 PM »
The spinning part is the lower one, the one with the solar panels, the top half is counter rotated to offer a stabilized platform. I don't know about MEO, but it definitely is not a LEO bus. The difference between GEO and deep space is not that much. Still might be cheaper to go with a modern platform.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #11 on: 03/06/2017 03:05 PM »
While the released diagrams are a dead ringer for what is known about SDS Quasar, one other option, while slim does exist. Prowler, a "stealth" (difficult to detect) spinner satellite based on a Hughes bus for secretly gathering intelligence on satellites in GSO. Maybe a second was built... If truly based on HS-376 bus, it would have had a drop skirt.

http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/prowler.htm

In the straw pole, I would still vote SDS.
« Last Edit: 03/06/2017 03:07 PM by kevin-rf »
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #12 on: 03/06/2017 04:15 PM »
While the released diagrams are a dead ringer for what is known about SDS Quasar, one other option, while slim does exist. Prowler, a "stealth" (difficult to detect) spinner satellite based on a Hughes bus for secretly gathering intelligence on satellites in GSO. Maybe a second was built... If truly based on HS-376 bus, it would have had a drop skirt.

No.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #13 on: 03/06/2017 04:15 PM »
The spinning part is the lower one, the one with the solar panels, the top half is counter rotated to offer a stabilized platform. I don't know about MEO, but it definitely is not a LEO bus. The difference between GEO and deep space is not that much. Still might be cheaper to go with a modern platform.

No, the entire cylinder spins. The antennas sit on a table that is de-spun.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #14 on: 03/06/2017 04:18 PM »
Not really sure what this could be used for either scientifically or as a testbed.  There were some comments made in the Space News website that got my attention though:

Quote
Syrio35 • a day ago
Data relay for missions to far side of the moon.

Avatar
MrSmartyAss • a day ago
Won't we need at some point a high-speed communications satellite for the Lunar poles?

Avatar
Eisenhorn • 2 days ago
Lunar orbit-based Laser Data Platform. Beef up the DSN relays with it in preparation for future Lunar missions , and the Mars Launch Glut of 2020.

Given that this satellite, while intended for military use, is essentially the core of a communication satellite, may as well use it as a lunar communication satellite.  Maybe attach a cubesat or 2 for more specific bonus sciences.  As far as where to put the thing, how about circling L2 where it can assist Far Side and otherwise distant communication?  Perhaps even with optical laser com to boot.

Lunar comm for what?

If it is going to communications, it has to support something that either currently exists or will soon exist. There's no lunar architecture that this can serve, and it makes no sense to put it in storage another decade until needed.

It's going to end up with some kind of Earth sensing instruments, or maybe some heliophysics instruments, or it won't fly at all.

Offline Star One

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #15 on: 03/06/2017 05:06 PM »
Not really sure what this could be used for either scientifically or as a testbed.  There were some comments made in the Space News website that got my attention though:

Quote
Syrio35 • a day ago
Data relay for missions to far side of the moon.

Avatar
MrSmartyAss • a day ago
Won't we need at some point a high-speed communications satellite for the Lunar poles?

Avatar
Eisenhorn • 2 days ago
Lunar orbit-based Laser Data Platform. Beef up the DSN relays with it in preparation for future Lunar missions , and the Mars Launch Glut of 2020.

Given that this satellite, while intended for military use, is essentially the core of a communication satellite, may as well use it as a lunar communication satellite.  Maybe attach a cubesat or 2 for more specific bonus sciences.  As far as where to put the thing, how about circling L2 where it can assist Far Side and otherwise distant communication?  Perhaps even with optical laser com to boot.

Lunar comm for what?

If it is going to communications, it has to support something that either currently exists or will soon exist. There's no lunar architecture that this can serve, and it makes no sense to put it in storage another decade until needed.

It's going to end up with some kind of Earth sensing instruments, or maybe some heliophysics instruments, or it won't fly at all.

Because of its origins do you think we will see any pictures of it before launch?

I remember them saying no pictures would be released of the NRO telescopes after being handed to NASA.

Offline Jim

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #16 on: 03/06/2017 05:22 PM »

Because of its origins do you think we will see any pictures of it before launch?

I remember them saying no pictures would be released of the NRO telescopes after being handed to NASA.

Here is a picture of one like it

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/images/sds_nro_01.jpg
« Last Edit: 03/06/2017 05:22 PM by Jim »

Offline mn

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #17 on: 03/06/2017 05:26 PM »
But anything outside of GEO is not really feasible.  It was not designed for that environment nor does the vehicle have the navigation/sensors other locations (just has sun and earth sensors for pointing at earth from GEO)

From the RFI:
Quote
with a possible launch to low earth orbit, geostationary equatorial orbit, medium Earth orbit, Earth–Moon L1, or lunar orbit

https://nspires.nasaprs.com/external/viewrepositorydocument/cmdocumentid=554430/solicitationId=%7B16C0FA2D-C5B0-B41C-3BC5-CFAF14C6D483%7D/viewSolicitationDocument=1/NSTPRFI.pdf

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #18 on: 03/06/2017 05:50 PM »
The spinning part is the lower one, the one with the solar panels, the top half is counter rotated to offer a stabilized platform. I don't know about MEO, but it definitely is not a LEO bus. The difference between GEO and deep space is not that much. Still might be cheaper to go with a modern platform.

No, the entire cylinder spins. The antennas sit on a table that is de-spun.
From the document, The dimensions on specs on what is despun. Surprised no one has directly linked it yet. https://nspires.nasaprs.com/external/viewrepositorydocument/cmdocumentid=554430/solicitationId=%7B16C0FA2D-C5B0-B41C-3BC5-CFAF14C6D483%7D/viewSolicitationDocument=1/NSTPRFI.pdf

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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: NSTP-Sat: more NRO surplus going to NASA
« Reply #19 on: 03/06/2017 05:51 PM »
Document
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It's your med's!

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