Author Topic: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion  (Read 325323 times)

Offline cscott

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2949
  • Liked: 2059
  • Likes Given: 664
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1000 on: 08/09/2018 09:09 pm »
So Berger is saying that all 5 loading tests will be on the DM-1, IFA test, and DM-2 vehicles, all in the crew configuration with Dragon.

Called it!

Is it possible that static fires will count toward the five events?  In which case, the static fire before the crewed launch would be magic number 5.


Online DigitalMan

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 660
  • Liked: 174
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1001 on: 08/10/2018 02:11 am »
Does this suggest that the new COPVs will not be flown on any non crew-dragon missions?  Or some kind of subset of F9 missions?

Online marsbase

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 115
  • North Carolina
  • Liked: 89
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1002 on: 08/10/2018 03:07 am »
Does this suggest that the new COPVs will not be flown on any non crew-dragon missions?  Or some kind of subset of F9 missions?
I wouldn't be surprised if the new COPVs have already flown on the most recent 1046.2 mission. This was suggested by Off Nominal (http://offnominal.space/11) and it seems reasonable.  We know 1046 was torn completely down so replacing the COPV would not be a major addition. The new COPV is clearly ready to go because it's on the 1051 booster headed to McGregor.  And 1046.2 underwent some additional load-and-go testing at its static firing.  I know that Berger stated 1051 was the first of the new COPV series, but SpaceX doesn't talk about everything.

Offline deruch

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2407
  • California
  • Liked: 1968
  • Likes Given: 5228
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1003 on: 08/10/2018 09:08 pm »
Does this suggest that the new COPVs will not be flown on any non crew-dragon missions?  Or some kind of subset of F9 missions?
I wouldn't be surprised if the new COPVs have already flown on the most recent 1046.2 mission. This was suggested by Off Nominal (http://offnominal.space/11) and it seems reasonable.  We know 1046 was torn completely down so replacing the COPV would not be a major addition. The new COPV is clearly ready to go because it's on the 1051 booster headed to McGregor.  And 1046.2 underwent some additional load-and-go testing at its static firing.  I know that Berger stated 1051 was the first of the new COPV series, but SpaceX doesn't talk about everything.
I'd guess that SpaceX would stay true to their prior form and maybe fly some missions with increasing numbers of the new COPVs in various locations.  And that way have loading/flight data on both versions from the same flight for better comparisons.  So, it mayn't be inconsistent to say that DM-1 will be the first mission where all the COPVs will be the new type, while still allowing for the possibility that SpaceX has flown some of them already (as seems to be suggested by other statements).
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Online cwr

Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1004 on: 08/11/2018 12:34 am »
Does this suggest that the new COPVs will not be flown on any non crew-dragon missions?  Or some kind of subset of F9 missions?
I wouldn't be surprised if the new COPVs have already flown on the most recent 1046.2 mission. This was suggested by Off Nominal (http://offnominal.space/11) and it seems reasonable.  We know 1046 was torn completely down so replacing the COPV would not be a major addition. The new COPV is clearly ready to go because it's on the 1051 booster headed to McGregor.  And 1046.2 underwent some additional load-and-go testing at its static firing.  I know that Berger stated 1051 was the first of the new COPV series, but SpaceX doesn't talk about everything.
I'd guess that SpaceX would stay true to their prior form and maybe fly some missions with increasing numbers of the new COPVs in various locations.  And that way have loading/flight data on both versions from the same flight for better comparisons.  So, it mayn't be inconsistent to say that DM-1 will be the first mission where all the COPVs will be the new type, while still allowing for the possibility that SpaceX has flown some of them already (as seems to be suggested by other statements).

There may be a better thread for this but I'll leave it up to the mods to move it.

I have no special knowledge on this topic, but I do observe the following:
1) We've had 4 F9 flights with a block 5 S1.
2) The 1st two  [1046.1 and 1047.1] seemed to use the same RP1 and LOX loading rules
    as block 4 in terms of starting with RP1 about an hour before T=0.
3) The last two [1048.1 and 1046.2] started RP1 and LOX loading into S1 at T-35m. When I saw that
    on the Iridium Next 7 timeline [for 1048.1] it made me wonder if that was the 1st flight
    with all COPV 2.0?

Pure speculation on my part, but I thought COPV 2.0 was the enabling technology for the return to
shorter propellant loading times - does anybody have hard data?

Carl

Offline Alexphysics

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
  • Spain
  • Liked: 416
  • Likes Given: 319
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1005 on: 08/11/2018 01:22 am »
All four flights have had the same fueling timings

Offline butters

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1789
  • Liked: 419
  • Likes Given: 159
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1006 on: 08/11/2018 01:29 am »
Something tells me that the COPV situation on B1046-B1050 will remain shrouded in mystery and that even decades from now, former NASA and SpaceX personnel who were involved will be reluctant to talk about this particular episode. Whatever the situation may be, I don't think it makes either organization look good.

Offline guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6902
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1884
  • Likes Given: 1933
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1007 on: 08/11/2018 08:16 am »
I don't think it makes either organization look good.

More importantly it does not make them look bad. Just somewhat annoying to fans and to those who seek a fly in the ointment.

Offline Hauerg

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 774
  • Berndorf, Austria
  • Liked: 376
  • Likes Given: 1284
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1008 on: 08/11/2018 08:52 am »
Something tells me that the COPV situation on B1046-B1050 will remain shrouded in mystery and that even decades from now, former NASA and SpaceX personnel who were involved will be reluctant to talk about this particular episode. Whatever the situation may be, I don't think it makes either organization look good.
What makes you think SpaceX has to inform ANYbody (except NASA, of course) about this?

Offline su27k

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1447
  • Liked: 1294
  • Likes Given: 116
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1009 on: 08/11/2018 09:34 am »
Something tells me that the COPV situation on B1046-B1050 will remain shrouded in mystery and that even decades from now, former NASA and SpaceX personnel who were involved will be reluctant to talk about this particular episode. Whatever the situation may be, I don't think it makes either organization look good.

What is bad about the COPV situation on B1046-B1050?

Online Jcc

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 953
  • Liked: 261
  • Likes Given: 127
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1010 on: 08/11/2018 12:12 pm »
Something tells me that the COPV situation on B1046-B1050 will remain shrouded in mystery and that even decades from now, former NASA and SpaceX personnel who were involved will be reluctant to talk about this particular episode. Whatever the situation may be, I don't think it makes either organization look good.

An ironic sense of humor? ;D

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7533
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 8409
  • Likes Given: 2850
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1011 on: 08/13/2018 04:12 am »
Quote
SpaceXís Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket looks no worse for wear after dual launches

By Eric Ralph
Posted on August 12, 2018

SpaceXís first Falcon 9 Block 5 booster has returned to Port Canaveral, FL once again after the rocketís second successful launch, likely the first of countless reuses to come over the next months and years. Of note, B1046.2 (Booster 1046, flight 2) was by all appearances in as good of condition as it was when it lifted off from Pad 40 just three days prior

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-block-5-no-worse-for-wear-two-orbital-launches/

Online RDMM2081

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 169
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 259
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1012 on: 08/13/2018 04:16 pm »
Quote
SpaceXís Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket looks no worse for wear after dual launches

By Eric Ralph
Posted on August 12, 2018

SpaceXís first Falcon 9 Block 5 booster has returned to Port Canaveral, FL once again after the rocketís second successful launch, likely the first of countless reuses to come over the next months and years. Of note, B1046.2 (Booster 1046, flight 2) was by all appearances in as good of condition as it was when it lifted off from Pad 40 just three days prior

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-block-5-no-worse-for-wear-two-orbital-launches/

Does anyone with the time/ability feel an inclination to do a side-by-side of 1046.0 (on pad before first launch) / 1046.1 (on droneship or on pad before second launch) / 1046.2 (on droneship)

That would be awesome!

Offline niwax

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Germany
    • SpaceX Booster List
  • Liked: 249
  • Likes Given: 53
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1013 on: 08/13/2018 08:40 pm »
Quote
SpaceXís Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket looks no worse for wear after dual launches

By Eric Ralph
Posted on August 12, 2018

SpaceXís first Falcon 9 Block 5 booster has returned to Port Canaveral, FL once again after the rocketís second successful launch, likely the first of countless reuses to come over the next months and years. Of note, B1046.2 (Booster 1046, flight 2) was by all appearances in as good of condition as it was when it lifted off from Pad 40 just three days prior

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-block-5-no-worse-for-wear-two-orbital-launches/

Does anyone with the time/ability feel an inclination to do a side-by-side of 1046.0 (on pad before first launch) / 1046.1 (on droneship or on pad before second launch) / 1046.2 (on droneship)

That would be awesome!

Here's a few images by these fantastic people:
The Aerospace Geek
Tom Cross / Teslarati
John Kraus / AmericaSpace
SpaceX
Marek Cyzio
Marcus Cote

They seem to have nailed the engines/grid fins, especially compared to how toasty those aluminium fins were
Which booster has the most soot? SpaceX booster launch history! (discussion)

Offline Hominans Kosmos

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 201
  • Vacuum dweller
  • Tallinn
  • Liked: 105
  • Likes Given: 1806
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1014 on: 08/20/2018 06:18 pm »
Lots of little curiosities on the Merlins there. What's the green, copper-oxide looking stuff on the end of the nozzles? What's the protrusion on the side of the bell for? Why does one of the engines have a rivet or other fastener sticking out?

Referring to the appended photo, on the middle engine, and the one in front of it to the left. These are said to be bumpers. From the choice of term I assume they are to soften nozzle to nozzle contact that may occur. These bumps have been there through many versions, not sure if from the very beginning of octaweb flights.

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28810
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 8965
  • Likes Given: 5770
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1015 on: 09/09/2018 11:51 pm »
Do we know when the new COPVs will fly?
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online cppetrie

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
  • Liked: 382
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1016 on: 09/09/2018 11:56 pm »
Do we know when the new COPVs will fly?
DM1 has been the working theory as far as I know. There has been no definitive statement to my knowledge just strong indications itíll be the DM1 mission.

Offline jpo234

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1433
  • Liked: 1378
  • Likes Given: 436
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1017 on: 09/11/2018 09:44 pm »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1039531798034882561

Quote
Shotwell: Falcon 9 first stages come back in much better shape than anticipated. Have refurbishment time down to four weeks; goal is still a one-day turnaround next year. #WSBW
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3584
  • Florida
  • Liked: 2018
  • Likes Given: 243
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1018 on: 09/11/2018 10:54 pm »
With a turnaround time of 4 weeks you only need 4 S1s 1046-1050 to provide for launches for an entire year period. During the next year we may see just a couple more S1s built. This includes a center core FH version and another core possibly a second FH as insurance or for customer that demands a new core (and pays extra for it).

Online John Alan

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 841
  • Central IL - USA - Earth
  • Liked: 547
  • Likes Given: 2115
Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #1019 on: 09/12/2018 03:07 am »
I kinda figure on a someday fleet of about 12 active boosters and 4 more inactive...
2 - NASA Crew and RTLS only... dedicated usage
2 - NASA Cargo and RTLS only... dedicated usage
2 - FH cores (one active, one spare)
2 - FH side boosters (one pair always set up as needed)
2 - East coast GTO active fleet...
2 - West coast SSO active fleet...
4- inactive in heavy overhaul or as new or rebuilt spares for last 6 above...

A Starlink launch campaign would likely add 4 more boosters and really amp up the flight rate...

May never see a booster number 1080 or beyond is my guess... :-\
Plenty of S2's flown I bet by 2026 or so... (will not end up reusing S2 except MAYBE a Starlink dedicated setup)

BFR/BFS slowly take on all the work and the F9 fleet shrinks to a handful active...

2 cents on subtopic...  ;)
« Last Edit: 09/12/2018 03:35 am by John Alan »

Tags: