Author Topic: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion  (Read 323347 times)

Offline JamesH65

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #540 on: 03/25/2018 08:39 am »
I don't see it like that. Because the cost to MAKE a new Block 5 is less than $567m, the maximum amount SpaceX would lose is the cost to replace the booster with a new one, plus any delay costs. But of course, they won't lose it - it will be charged to the customer.
You're missing one small detail in this.

Musk wants to shift all launches to BFR.

They don't want to retain any F9 booster mfg capacity at all and if there's one thing we'll learned about SX by now it's they don't keep "spare" stages lying around.

So flying an F9 booster as an expendable is a very big deal unless it's at end-of-life.

Now that quote by Musk, saying blk 5 has got a potential life of 100s of launches with minor refurb just pushes the SX further away from wanting fly any expendable missions on a blk 5.

So if you want near max capacity on F9 payload or delta V (especially if it's both) I'd expect them to say "you'll have to use FH"

No, I didn't miss that. Point still stands that the cost to SpaceX is the cost to build a new booster. They don't want to do that. But that doesn't change the costs.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #541 on: 03/25/2018 10:46 am »
No, I didn't miss that. Point still stands that the cost to SpaceX is the cost to build a new booster. They don't want to do that. But that doesn't change the costs.

Or no cost at all if they have more uses in the remaining stock than they need. They may have to fly Falcon for a while for NASA and DoD. But all the commercial launches will shift quickly to BFS which is the majority.

Offline Star One

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #542 on: 03/25/2018 07:54 pm »
Round up of the Falcon 9 fleet and the introduction of the Block 5.

SpaceX Falcon 9 Block 5 will usher in a new era of rapid reuse rockets

Quote
Despite all missions being readily in the range of recovery, SpaceX has only attempted to recover its Falcon boosters after two of the companyís five 2018 launches. If anything, the attachment to Falcon boosters and the apparent melancholy felt by many observers when they are not recovered is a testament to the staggeringly abrupt success of SpaceXís reusable rocketry program.

Aside from Falcon Heavyís center core and 1044, each booster expended in the last several months (Iridium-4, GovSat-1, and PAZ) was aging, flight-proven, and nearing the end of its operational life: Block 3 and Block 4 Falcon 9s were simply not designed or expected to fly more than two or three times total. Their seemingly premature deaths were thus a necessary step along the path to Block 5 and truly rapid and cheap booster reuse; perhaps as pragmatic as quite literally making space for new and superior hardware at SpaceXís many facilities. The demise of Falcon Heavyís center core nevertheless made for a spectacular video (skip to 1:10, or watch the whole thingÖ).

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-falcon-9-block-5-rapid-reuse-rockets/

Online envy887

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #543 on: 03/26/2018 12:39 pm »
Are there estimates on how long the burns are going to be the Block 5 Booster and US?

They've got to be shorter, but by how much?

If the block 4 booster is at 92% thrust, and block 5 at 100%, then because thrust is proportional to mass flow, you might assume the block 5 burns would take 92% of the block 4 times. However, the throttle back at launch, for Max-Q, and to limit acceleration before MECO all still need to occur, and would all reduce the difference. I'm guessing they'll be around 95% of the block 4 burn times. I'm not sure yet if the S2 thrust will change as much.

They also might change the prop load timing or subcooling temperatures to fit more mass in the tanks. Just to throw another potential variable out there...

Offline guckyfan

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #544 on: 03/31/2018 05:10 am »
With block 5 coming soon, do we have any news on the service facility at Port Canaveral?

Offline CraigLieb

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #545 on: 04/02/2018 09:33 pm »
Was there a significant change to the Merlin engines themselves for block 5? Otherwise I wonder why they didnít save some block 4 stages to keep some spare engines on hand for swaps.
Also, weíre any enignes swapped on reuse launches? Did they have any engine that launched 3 times? (Not counting test fires )
« Last Edit: 04/02/2018 09:35 pm by CraigLieb »
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Offline mme

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #546 on: 04/02/2018 09:35 pm »
SpaceX to Debut Falcon 9 Block 5 in April

CAPE CANAVERAL - The upgraded Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket SpaceX needs to taxi NASA astronauts to and from the International Space Station (ISS) and deliver U.S. national security spacecraft into orbit will make its first flight on a commercial mission for Bangladesh, SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell says. Bangabandhu Satellite-1, which was built by Thales Alenia Space for the Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission, will be the first Bangladeshi geostationary satellite, ...

http://m.aviationweek.com/space/spacex-debut-falcon-9-block-5-april
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Online cppetrie

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #547 on: 04/02/2018 09:42 pm »
Was there a significant change to the Merlin engines themselves for block 5? Otherwise I wonder why they didnít save some block 4 stages to keep some spare engines on hand for swaps.
Also, weíre any enignes swapped on reuse launches? Did they have any engine that launched 3 times? (Not counting test fires )
Yes. They now use a blisk (disk with blades all in one piece) in the turbines instead of a disk with blades welded on. I doubt this is a swap out part so Block 4 engines arenít the same as Block 5.

Offline Kansan52

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #548 on: 04/02/2018 10:12 pm »
With block 5 coming soon, do we have any news on the service facility at Port Canaveral?

Apparently Teslarati got a photo of the Paz fairing at the new facility:

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-recovered-fairing-appears-mars-rocket-factory/

Offline RocketLover0119

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #549 on: 04/02/2018 10:18 pm »
He is talking about port Canaveral, and yes, they should be starting work soon on the new facilitit


With block 5 coming soon, do we have any news on the service facility at Port Canaveral?

Apparently Teslarati got a photo of the Paz fairing at the new facility:

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-recovered-fairing-appears-mars-rocket-factory/
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Offline Kansan52

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #550 on: 04/02/2018 10:55 pm »
He is talking about port Canaveral, and yes, they should be starting work soon on the new facilitit


With block 5 coming soon, do we have any news on the service facility at Port Canaveral?

Apparently Teslarati got a photo of the Paz fairing at the new facility:

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-recovered-fairing-appears-mars-rocket-factory/

Ooooooooo...should have read that better.

Thanks!!

Offline Nomadd

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #551 on: 04/03/2018 01:09 am »
Was there a significant change to the Merlin engines themselves for block 5? Otherwise I wonder why they didnít save some block 4 stages to keep some spare engines on hand for swaps.
Also, weíre any enignes swapped on reuse launches? Did they have any engine that launched 3 times? (Not counting test fires )
Yes. They now use a blisk (disk with blades all in one piece) in the turbines instead of a disk with blades welded on. I doubt this is a swap out part so Block 4 engines arenít the same as Block 5.
Was that related to the cracking issue?
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Online cppetrie

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #552 on: 04/03/2018 01:12 am »
Was there a significant change to the Merlin engines themselves for block 5? Otherwise I wonder why they didnít save some block 4 stages to keep some spare engines on hand for swaps.
Also, weíre any enignes swapped on reuse launches? Did they have any engine that launched 3 times? (Not counting test fires )
Yes. They now use a blisk (disk with blades all in one piece) in the turbines instead of a disk with blades welded on. I doubt this is a swap out part so Block 4 engines arenít the same as Block 5.
Was that related to the cracking issue?
Thatís my understanding.

Online Cheapchips

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #553 on: 04/03/2018 07:05 am »

It wasn't clear from I'd read whether SX the switch to a blisk was a block 5 upgrade they were doing anyway or a response to NASA's concerns about cracking.

(Although I'd assume that for many reuses it wouldn't be something that either party would be fine with)

Offline livingjw

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #554 on: 04/03/2018 11:45 am »
I thought they always used a blisk type turbine design, and just redesigned it to eliminate small cracks near the base of the blades.

John

Online abaddon

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #555 on: 04/03/2018 01:29 pm »
I thought they always used a blisk type turbine design, and just redesigned it to eliminate small cracks near the base of the blades.

John
As @cppetrie wrote:
Quote
Yes. They now use a blisk (disk with blades all in one piece) in the turbines instead of a disk with blades welded on. I doubt this is a swap out part so Block 4 engines arenít the same as Block 5.
So the part is the same shape, it is how it is manufactured that is different.  I hadn't heard about the cracks being near the base of the blades, but that would make sense as that was where the welds were.  Eliminate the welds, eliminate the cracks.

Offline Prettz

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #556 on: 04/03/2018 06:05 pm »
I wonder how much that change adds to the cost of an M1D.

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #557 on: 04/03/2018 07:28 pm »
I wonder how much that change adds to the cost of an M1D.
it may remove cost. We don't know.

Surprised they didn't go with a new version (M1E) ... although we don't know they haven't.
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Online Elmar Moelzer

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Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #558 on: 04/03/2018 08:53 pm »
it may remove cost. We don't know.
Since they are planning to reuse them often, a small cost increase should not matter that much.

Online IanThePineapple

Re: F9 Block 5 Updates and Discussion
« Reply #559 on: 04/03/2018 09:05 pm »
I wonder how much that change adds to the cost of an M1D.
it may remove cost. We don't know.

Surprised they didn't go with a new version (M1E) ... although we don't know they haven't.

To be honest, they could have done that (make a new version name) for Full Thrust, but didn't.

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