Author Topic: SpaceX IVA Suit  (Read 90524 times)

Online Lar

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #220 on: 11/03/2018 02:01 PM »
Don't you think SpaceX has a vacuum chamber already for testing Dragons and components of Falcon vehicles?
I have no definitive answer but I think the answer is no. They use NASA facilities for vacuum testing I think. Didn't they just test the DM1 capsule and trunk at Stennis? I don't quite remember where....
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
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Offline IanThePineapple

Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #221 on: 11/03/2018 02:24 PM »
Don't you think SpaceX has a vacuum chamber already for testing Dragons and components of Falcon vehicles?
I have no definitive answer but I think the answer is no. They use NASA facilities for vacuum testing I think. Didn't they just test the DM1 capsule and trunk at Stennis? I don't quite remember where....

I think they have a small vacuum chamber at Hawthorne (not entirely sure), but likely not large enough to hold a Dragon capsule.

Offline LastStarFighter

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #222 on: 11/03/2018 02:30 PM »
Don't you think SpaceX has a vacuum chamber already for testing Dragons and components of Falcon vehicles?
I have no definitive answer but I think the answer is no. They use NASA facilities for vacuum testing I think. Didn't they just test the DM1 capsule and trunk at Stennis? I don't quite remember where....

I believe they use the Plum Brook one through NASA Glenn.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkQ8w0mFoxa/

My guess is after the initial certification thermal vac they will just use positive pressure to simulate the vacuum of space. Meaning they just increase the pressure in the suit or dragon to make sure there arenít leaks. Just my recollection though.

Online oiorionsbelt

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #223 on: 11/03/2018 03:04 PM »
Don't you think SpaceX has a vacuum chamber already for testing Dragons and components of Falcon vehicles?
I have no definitive answer but I think the answer is no. They use NASA facilities for vacuum testing I think. Didn't they just test the DM1 capsule and trunk at Stennis? I don't quite remember where....
Umm, there's a large vacuum chamber right outside HQ in Hawthorne that they use for Hyperloop competitions.

Online ChrisWilson68

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #224 on: 11/03/2018 03:24 PM »
Don't you think SpaceX has a vacuum chamber already for testing Dragons and components of Falcon vehicles?
I have no definitive answer but I think the answer is no. They use NASA facilities for vacuum testing I think. Didn't they just test the DM1 capsule and trunk at Stennis? I don't quite remember where....

I believe they use the Plum Brook one through NASA Glenn.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkQ8w0mFoxa/

My guess is after the initial certification thermal vac they will just use positive pressure to simulate the vacuum of space. Meaning they just increase the pressure in the suit or dragon to make sure there arenít leaks. Just my recollection though.

The fact that they use a NASA vacuum chamber for some purposes doesn't preclude them having their own vacuum chamber for other purposes.  The Plum Brook facility is a thermal vacuum chamber, and it's big enough for Dragon plus trunk.  They could also have one at Hawthorne that is smaller and/or doesn't have the same thermal range, so they'd still want to  use the Plum Brook chamber for more rigorous testing while still being able to do some vacuum testing more cheaply and easily back home.

Online DigitalMan

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #225 on: 11/03/2018 03:35 PM »
Don't you think SpaceX has a vacuum chamber already for testing Dragons and components of Falcon vehicles?
I have no definitive answer but I think the answer is no. They use NASA facilities for vacuum testing I think. Didn't they just test the DM1 capsule and trunk at Stennis? I don't quite remember where....

I believe they use the Plum Brook one through NASA Glenn.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkQ8w0mFoxa/

My guess is after the initial certification thermal vac they will just use positive pressure to simulate the vacuum of space. Meaning they just increase the pressure in the suit or dragon to make sure there arenít leaks. Just my recollection though.

The fact that they use a NASA vacuum chamber for some purposes doesn't preclude them having their own vacuum chamber for other purposes.  The Plum Brook facility is a thermal vacuum chamber, and it's big enough for Dragon plus trunk.  They could also have one at Hawthorne that is smaller and/or doesn't have the same thermal range, so they'd still want to  use the Plum Brook chamber for more rigorous testing while still being able to do some vacuum testing more cheaply and easily back home.


There is also that mile long partial-vacuum tube right outside their office.  I wonder how that got there.

Online Lar

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #226 on: 11/03/2018 06:10 PM »
I suspect that humans in space suits testing consoles are not going to go in just any chamber. There has to be provision for rapid repressurization and egress in case of emergency that might possibly not be present in any random chamber (or in a hyperloop test track intended for nonhuman tests.... )

« Last Edit: 11/03/2018 06:10 PM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online DigitalMan

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #227 on: 11/03/2018 07:05 PM »
I suspect that humans in space suits testing consoles are not going to go in just any chamber. There has to be provision for rapid repressurization and egress in case of emergency that might possibly not be present in any random chamber (or in a hyperloop test track intended for nonhuman tests.... )


My point was that if SpaceX built something like that to encourage STEM, then properly testing space suits in support of getting humans into space is probably not an issue.

Online Lar

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #228 on: 11/03/2018 09:35 PM »
I suspect that humans in space suits testing consoles are not going to go in just any chamber. There has to be provision for rapid repressurization and egress in case of emergency that might possibly not be present in any random chamber (or in a hyperloop test track intended for nonhuman tests.... )


My point was that if SpaceX built something like that to encourage STEM, then properly testing space suits in support of getting humans into space is probably not an issue.
my point is we don't for sure know they have one suitable[1] for suits[1]. I'll grant it's easily within their capability... I'll even give you a probably do, but I'm not that confident.

My other point was that it has to have some special features. Humans have to be able to leave in a hurry. not just any vacuum chamber has that attribute.

1 - yeah I went there. 
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online obi-wan

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #229 on: 11/04/2018 03:39 AM »
I suspect that humans in space suits testing consoles are not going to go in just any chamber. There has to be provision for rapid repressurization and egress in case of emergency that might possibly not be present in any random chamber (or in a hyperloop test track intended for nonhuman tests.... )


My point was that if SpaceX built something like that to encourage STEM, then properly testing space suits in support of getting humans into space is probably not an issue.
my point is we don't for sure know they have one suitable[1] for suits[1]. I'll grant it's easily within their capability... I'll even give you a probably do, but I'm not that confident.

My other point was that it has to have some special features. Humans have to be able to leave in a hurry. not just any vacuum chamber has that attribute.

1 - yeah I went there. 

To the best of my knowledge the only human-rated vacuum chamber in the U.S. is Chamber B at JSC, which is where NASA does all of their suit testing in vacuum and almost certainly where they would have had SpaceX test their suit, even if there were a vacuum chamber at Hawthorne. Human-rated chambers have to have sizable antechambers and quick-opening valves for emergency repressurization. During suit testing, paramedics are in the antechamber at 40,000 ft altitude breathing pure oxygen. If there is a problem in the main chamber, it can be repressurized to the 40,000 level within 30-45 seconds so the rescue personnel can lock into the chamber and take care of the test subject. There was a test in the '60s where the suit hoses pulled out of the wall and the test subject was exposed to vacuum; he passed out in 5-6 seconds but the paramedics were in the chamber with him in less than a minute. No lasting harm (but breathing vacuum not recommended...)

Offline speedevil

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #230 on: 11/04/2018 01:02 PM »
To the best of my knowledge the only human-rated vacuum chamber in the U.S. is Chamber B at JSC, which is where NASA does all of their suit testing in vacuum and almost certainly where they would have had SpaceX test their suit, even if there were a vacuum chamber at Hawthorne. Human-rated chambers have to have sizable antechambers and quick-opening valves for emergency repressurization.
None of this is actually very difficult to do, unless you need very, very large chambers.

For example, with the hyperloop test track of 3.3m diameter, you add a bulkhead 10m in, and put on the door at the end four groups of ten ~20cm gas valves, independently actuated normally open valves, each of which go to four dead-man switches and four observers.
Any one of these groups can repressurise in a second. (any one of the forty valves, in ~15)
Add a burst disk and a guy with a knife, if you are worried about all of the valves stopping working.

If access to NASAs equipment is cheap enough, it may be reasonable to use it, but SpaceX does need to be working on this sort of stuff for their own purposes - working out how to get airlocks and personnel reasonably safe, and it's far from ridiculous they'd want to start early.



Online Bananas_on_Mars

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #231 on: 11/04/2018 01:14 PM »
Current diameter for the hyperloop test track is 1.83m or 72 inch with an inner diameter of 1.79m. And they don't have an air lock, which could by itself serve as a vacuum chamber.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #232 on: 11/04/2018 01:29 PM »
Enough with the vacuum chambers!
We saw video of two astros in IVA suits (the subject to this thread) operating consoles in a Dragon simulator.
There is no suggestion they are ever under vacuum even when their helmets are closed.
If SpaceX wants to test the impact of working in vacuum there are inexpensive ways to do that wherever they are, like adding 0.25 atmospheres of extra air to the suits. 
We don’t need to hypothesize systems or relocations of enormous expense and complexity. (although I did enjoy the story about the space suit vacuum testing accident, and comparing it in my mind to the critical scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey.)

(I guess a five week gap between SpaceX launches is stressing on many of us.)
« Last Edit: 11/05/2018 05:04 AM by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Cheapchips

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #233 on: 11/04/2018 05:33 PM »
Current diameter for the hyperloop test track is 1.83m or 72 inch with an inner diameter of 1.79m. And they don't have an air lock, which could by itself serve as a vacuum chamber.

Is the test hyperloop capable of full vacuum?  Doesn't the hyperloop run at 1/6 atmosphere? 
« Last Edit: 11/04/2018 09:32 PM by Cheapchips »

Online Bananas_on_Mars

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #234 on: 11/04/2018 05:56 PM »
Quote
Internal pressure: 0.14Ė100 kilopascals(0.02Ė14.7 psi) (competitors may select tube operating pressure "in order to support various types of propulsion systems, compressors (if applicable), and outer mold lines"
Specifications

I would say 0.02 psi is pretty close to full vacuum.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2018 05:58 PM by Bananas_on_Mars »

Offline mgeagon

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #235 on: 11/05/2018 03:41 AM »
To the best of my knowledge the only human-rated vacuum chamber in the U.S. is Chamber B at JSC.
There is at least one other human rated vacuum chamber at the University of North Dakota in Grand Forks. I've been in it. They acquired it from the USAF around 1990. AIUI, there are multiple units serving pilot training operations for all military branches.

Offline CT Space Guy

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Re: SpaceX IVA Suit
« Reply #236 on: 11/05/2018 12:43 PM »
I suspect that humans in space suits testing consoles are not going to go in just any chamber. There has to be provision for rapid repressurization and egress in case of emergency that might possibly not be present in any random chamber (or in a hyperloop test track intended for nonhuman tests.... )


My point was that if SpaceX built something like that to encourage STEM, then properly testing space suits in support of getting humans into space is probably not an issue.
my point is we don't for sure know they have one suitable[1] for suits[1]. I'll grant it's easily within their capability... I'll even give you a probably do, but I'm not that confident.

My other point was that it has to have some special features. Humans have to be able to leave in a hurry. not just any vacuum chamber has that attribute.

1 - yeah I went there. 

To the best of my knowledge the only human-rated vacuum chamber in the U.S. is Chamber B at JSC, which is where NASA does all of their suit testing in vacuum and almost certainly where they would have had SpaceX test their suit, even if there were a vacuum chamber at Hawthorne. Human-rated chambers have to have sizable antechambers and quick-opening valves for emergency repressurization. During suit testing, paramedics are in the antechamber at 40,000 ft altitude breathing pure oxygen. If there is a problem in the main chamber, it can be repressurized to the 40,000 level within 30-45 seconds so the rescue personnel can lock into the chamber and take care of the test subject. There was a test in the '60s where the suit hoses pulled out of the wall and the test subject was exposed to vacuum; he passed out in 5-6 seconds but the paramedics were in the chamber with him in less than a minute. No lasting harm (but breathing vacuum not recommended...)

We have a chamber exactly like that right here in CT. Although it hasn't kept up it's manned rating in many years.

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