Author Topic: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018 (October 3, 2018)  (Read 7474 times)

Offline envy887

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Re: Re: Upcoming Talks - SpaceX Related
« Reply #20 on: 10/03/2018 03:46 pm »
If Intelsat 35e used a minimum residual shutdown, it would naturally end up in a "better" orbit than a guidance targeted cutoff where provisions for propellant margins have to be made.

True, an MRS shutdown would be the case in a "max capability". 1800 kg of residual fuel would be about 1.6% of the initial fuel load, which is a fairly high residual for a commanded shutdown. 0.5% to 1% is more typical.

Hans listed 23.8 t to LEO and 63.8 t to LEO for F9 and FH respectively, which match the website's listing for max expended capability. He also listed 16.8 tonnes to Mars for FH, which again matches the website's max expended capability numbers.

It's curious that he would list different numbers for GTO but not LEO (lower energy) or Mars (higher energy).

Offline abaddon

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018
« Reply #21 on: 10/03/2018 04:07 pm »
Thanks for the correction @envy887, so much for my memory!  My only other thought is that the B5 might have some weight growth for reliability purposes, but I'd guess those would be more aimed at the 1st stage for rapid reuse, and the 1st stage is of course relatively weight-insensitive.  And you're right that the GTO numbers don't really line up with the LEO or high-energy numbers either.  Definitely curious.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018
« Reply #22 on: 10/03/2018 04:33 pm »
Intelsat 35e was a heavier payload (6761 kg) to a higher orbit (supersync) with an older block of F9, compared to what Hans showed.
IIRC Intelsat 35e was worse than -1800m/s from GSO, regardless of the apogee of the orbit.  Referencing the launch thread the inclination was around 25 degrees, so only a couple degrees of inclination reduction.  Unfortunately, there isn't a reference in that thread for the calculated dv to GSO, although I do recall seeing it referenced elsewhere.

Nope. Intelsat 35e went to GEO-1719 m/s, quite a bit better than the GEO-1800 m/s that Hans has right there on his slide.

GSO deficit calculated here from TLEs:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41426.msg1699946#msg1699946
The Falcon 9 that launched Intelsat 35e did not have landing legs or grid fins, an effect that may not have been considered in the presentation number calculations.  Also, that Falcon 9 used a Block 3 first stage and Block 4 second stage.  It is entirely possible that SpaceX has given up some capability with Block 5 to improve reusability.  It is also possible, since the B1037 first stage only flew this single flight, that it was a special case, designed to maximize payload for Intelsat.  Finally, there is the fact that this was a minimum residual shutdown flight.  Presentation numbers will always include contingency propellant to ensure a guidance cutoff to a given orbit with a high degree of certainty.  An MRS mission can't make the same guarantee, but in this case Intelsat won the lottery.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 10/03/2018 04:46 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline LouScheffer

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018
« Reply #23 on: 10/04/2018 03:23 am »
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1047420731401953280
This is weird, because the SpaceX website says 8,300 kg for GTO.
But they don't say *how good* of GTO for 8,300 kg.   6500 kg is the max if you need GEO-1800.   If you are willing to accept GEO-2200 (made up figure), or something similar, SpaceX can do 8,300 kg.

Of course, using this terminology,  what is called a GTO is sort of a matter of definition.   You could consider LEO as a GEO-4200 GTO orbit.  Then you would have something like a 22000 kg payload, but people would laugh at your claim that this is a GTO.   So the limit is set by how far you can stretch the meaning of GTO before customers start laughing.

Offline Aussie_Space_Nut

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018
« Reply #24 on: 10/04/2018 12:10 pm »
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/10/a-shadowy-op-ed-campaign-is-now-smearing-spacex-in-space-cities/

Edit.Lar: Off topic for this thread. Being discussed here
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35717.msg1863396#msg1863396
Unless you can make a direct relevance connection, Take discussion there. thank you.
« Last Edit: 10/05/2018 12:25 am by Lar »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018 (October 3, 2018)
« Reply #25 on: 10/04/2018 03:41 pm »



Offline mme

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018 (October 3, 2018)
« Reply #26 on: 10/04/2018 05:15 pm »
...

Really good talk giving an overview of everything SpaceX has done from the 1st successful launch in 2008. My favorite part was at the end, after showing the Starman launch video. He says:

Quote
Somebody asked me yesterday what I think the biggest thing we did in those 15 years and to me it's that we actually got people excited about this. That people are watching launches again.  That people come.  There's people that came from all over the world to watch this launch and watching a launch is a little bit like, I don't know, like aurora borealis. You never know it's really happening. People took the risk, they bought the ticket. They went there and they camped out there and watched this launch. In my eyes it's a little bit like how I envisage it was in the 60s when we had Apollo and went to the moon. So the biggest thing for me is that we acually got people excited. We have the ability to reenergize this whole thing.

Rockets, payloads, economics it's all important it's all important at the end of the day. But getting people excited and getting to the point where we all work on this is in my eyes actually way more of an achievement than anything else that we've done.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018
« Reply #27 on: 10/04/2018 06:33 pm »
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/10/a-shadowy-op-ed-campaign-is-now-smearing-spacex-in-space-cities/

I'm not sure how relevant this is to this thread - This is being discussed in the Commercial Crew section.

Offline IainMcClatchie

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018 (October 3, 2018)
« Reply #28 on: 10/05/2018 07:29 am »
My wife's company offers free automatic sound cleaning on videos: https://babblelabs.com/products/clear-cloud/

They're still working on it (that's why it's free), but it's often pretty good.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Hans Koenigsmann talk at IAC 2018 (October 3, 2018)
« Reply #29 on: 10/28/2018 02:19 am »
Official IAC video of Hansí talk:


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