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#500
by
bad_astra
on 01 Mar, 2017 14:33
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I would think that part of the package will be some deep familiarization with the craft anyway. Also I think that there WILL be some manual controls like attitude control. And in a pinch you also WILL want to be able to assure that the antenna points the right way to keep up communications. Note that neither SpaceX nor Musk have even touched the word "tourist" here.
I definitely would want to be able to do some troubleshooting, rebooting computers and so on. I doubt very much that anyone going for that would be happy with just being strapped in and being told to enjoy the ride.
Troubleshooting means there is trouble. No one sane actively WANTS trouble on a flight like this. No one is going to need anyone to "turn it off and on again," either. Except for a few brief moments the Dragon will be in contact of Earth with very little delay time.
In any case, you're not going to be a red-shirt running around the warp core with a wrench or writing miracle code to fix something on the way out. "MoonDragon this is ground control. Funny thing! We forgot to write a landing engine sequence program. Imagine that? Well, in the pocket of your suit you'll find a series of notecards called 'Python for Novices' also, did you bring a leatherman tool?"
If you want trouble, go kayaking.
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#501
by
wannamoonbase
on 01 Mar, 2017 14:47
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My opinion (of course)
The discussions about there not being enough demand for Falcon Heavy launches have now been put to rest. Plus, the business model has expanded in the near term to include private spaceflight for significant(?) profit. It also brings the re-use model into focus since this mission is not affordable without reuse.
Increasing the flight rate is so key to making reuse affordable.
I don't understand the debate on tourist versus astronaut. For the love of Pete, they'll be flying around the moon!!
For the first time since December 1972 someone has a realistic goal of going beyond low earth orbit. Enjoy it.
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#502
by
Surfdaddy
on 01 Mar, 2017 14:48
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So anyone on board one of these things is a passenger (I think the word tourist is inappropriate), whether they are paid by SpaceX to be there or have paid to be there.
A passenger that has no specific destination and is along for the ride and sightseeing is a tourist.
Actually,
Tourist: a person who is traveling or visiting a place for pleasure.
Astronaut and tourist are not mutually exclusive.
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#503
by
Elvis in Space
on 01 Mar, 2017 14:56
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Maybe this ultimately gets it's own thread, maybe I've missed the discussion elsewhere, but what will these passengers do during the trip? They are unlikely to be scientists so not much heavy science going on. It's an automated spacecraft so they won't have near the workload of an Apollo flight in that regard. There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?
Just wondering what they might actually do.
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#504
by
acsawdey
on 01 Mar, 2017 14:58
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If all these 'tourists' get out of it is a week of weightlessness, and peering at the Moon through the porthole, I think it would not be worth the money. Now, if they are trained to operate experiments located in the trunk it gets more interesting. And if there are cameras back there they would get a better view on their internal screens (Dragon 2 has great displays) than looking through a smudged window.
So, the question I have is: what is the largest telescope you could fit into Dragon 2's trunk? Point that at the back side of the moon and pipe the sensor data to the internal displays.
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#505
by
jpo234
on 01 Mar, 2017 15:01
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Maybe this ultimately gets it's own thread, maybe I've missed the discussion elsewhere, but what will these passengers do during the trip? They are unlikely to be scientists so not much heavy science going on. It's an automated spacecraft so they won't have near the workload of an Apollo flight in that regard. There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?
Just wondering what they might actually do.
To answer this question one would really need to know what "they know each other" means. Are they a couple? Is this a spectacular honeymoon cruise?
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#506
by
Phil Stooke
on 01 Mar, 2017 15:06
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What do you get out of climbing Everest? Hardship, danger and a few great views if the weather allows you to look at them. But the real point is to say you've done it. And the first participants also get a place in the history book - uh - websites. So I wouldn't be asking about what they can do, that's not likely to be the point. Maybe what they will do is live-tweet the whole thing for public engagement, and then go on the lecture circuit or make a documentary about it, being inspirational etc. Trying to find 'science' to do is probably not very important.
Note that I wouldn't be saying that about a future landing mission, where even amateurs can collect samples for scientific analysis back on Earth.
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#507
by
meberbs
on 01 Mar, 2017 15:12
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Eric Berger has a good piece on what parts of NASA may really be thinking about yesterday's announcement: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/02/if-you-think-nasa-is-frustrated-with-spacex-youre-probably-right/
Edit: clarified
I find that to be a rather negative article by Eric Berger, to be honest. At one point, in support of his overall argument, he quotes a certain Ms. Dittmar, who provides a negative view on Musk's endeavours. Only to reveal that Ms. Dittmar "serves as executive director of the Coalition for Deep Space Exploration, the organization formed by the principal contractors behind NASA's SLS rocket and Orion spacecraft".
Well shock and horror, the contractors building the SLS have bad things to say about SpaceX. What a surprise.
The general gist of it seems to be that NASA is bending over backwards for SpaceX despite SpaceX's commercial crew program slipping to 2018. No mention is made, however, of the fact that 2018 is still a year earlier than Boeing - a long established "old Space" company - can produce their version of a commercial crew vehicle.
I think you are being too harsh on Eric Berger here. He is not reporting on his opinions on this, but the opinion of NASA, and the attitudes and reasoning he described in the article certainly represent the feelings of at least some at NASA. His "argument" as you put it, is not that NASA shouldn't support SpaceX in this, it is that there are those in leadership at NASA that don't like this even though this kind of private use was part of the justification for how they structured commercial crew. He posted a response in the comments that helps clarify this:
There are things said publicly by NASA, and there are things said privately. I am fortunate to have some pretty good contacts high in NASA's administration who speak to me privately. They are not amused or enthused by this.
I will agree with you that a lot of younger engineers at NASA are very rah-rah when it comes to SpaceX. They see what the company is doing, and they love it. But, for the most part, they don't make the decisions.
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#508
by
bad_astra
on 01 Mar, 2017 15:21
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Are they hams? Could be the greatest DX-pedition in history.
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#509
by
GalacticIntruder
on 01 Mar, 2017 15:23
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Isn't it more likely two wealthy people were shopping for a Moon trip ASAP, and went to NASA first, and were told it is not possible or affordable (anytime soon), and then they went to SpaceX, who said yes.
I don't understand why NASA would be butt hurt over a private person paying his/her own money to SpaceX for a trip to LEO, Lunar, or Mars.
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#510
by
DanielW
on 01 Mar, 2017 15:24
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I am curious what they will do with the docking ring. Will they leave it to keep commonality with dragon 2 and allow for far-fetched rescue scenarios? Or, will they replace it with a lighter boilerplate or even a nice big window?
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#511
by
Kansan52
on 01 Mar, 2017 15:31
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NASA could point out that this flight is a success in both Commercial Cargo and Commercial Crew. Win for NASA. SX was literally saved from bankruptcy by that first contract. Now SX is strong enough to go the the Moon!
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#512
by
jtrame
on 01 Mar, 2017 15:31
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Are they hams? Could be the greatest DX-pedition in history.
QSL. It might take a good size array like the moon bouncers use to reach them. At least on VHF - UHF.
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#513
by
Mongo62
on 01 Mar, 2017 16:02
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There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?
Do we know that there would be no EVAs? How long would it take to train two paying passengers to do EVAs using SpaceX spacesuits? Doing an EVA while the Dragon is passing the Moon would be spectacular. Can you imagine floating in space next to the Dragon, watching the craters of the Moon sliding past, a few hundred km away?
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#514
by
rory
on 01 Mar, 2017 16:03
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There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?
Do we know that there would be no EVAs? How long would it take to train two paying passengers to do EVAs using SpaceX spacesuits? Doing an EVA while the Dragon is passing the Moon would be spectacular. Can you imagine floating in space next to the Dragon, watching the craters of the Moon sliding past, a few hundred km away?
SpaceX suits are for IVA, not EVA.
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#515
by
jpo234
on 01 Mar, 2017 16:05
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There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?
Do we know that there would be no EVAs? How long would it take to train two paying passengers to do EVAs using SpaceX spacesuits? Doing an EVA while the Dragon is passing the Moon would be spectacular. Can you imagine floating in space next to the Dragon, watching the craters of the Moon sliding past, a few hundred km away?
D2 has no airlock, AFAIK.
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#516
by
Mongo62
on 01 Mar, 2017 16:35
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There's no landing, orbiting, or EVA's to contend with. That leaves 8-10 days for CNN and selfies. How many times can you watch Apollo 13 and 2001?
Do we know that there would be no EVAs? How long would it take to train two paying passengers to do EVAs using SpaceX spacesuits? Doing an EVA while the Dragon is passing the Moon would be spectacular. Can you imagine floating in space next to the Dragon, watching the craters of the Moon sliding past, a few hundred km away?
D2 has no airlock, AFAIK.
Capture the cabin air with a pump, then just open the hatch? After the EVA is completed, close the hatch and return the air to the cabin.
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#517
by
vt_hokie
on 01 Mar, 2017 16:39
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What are the implications of a catastrophic failure for commercial crew, if any? Certainly this is additional risk - will it be seen as an Everest climb that won't slow down parallel climbs on other mountains if it goes the way Everest climbs sometimes do?
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#518
by
Jim
on 01 Mar, 2017 16:39
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Capture the cabin air with a pump, then just open the hatch? After the EVA is completed, close the hatch and return the air to the cabin.
a. What pumps? Never been done in space before.
b. Not everything in the cabin is compatible with a vacuum.
c. Again, the suits are not EVA suits.
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#519
by
Negan
on 01 Mar, 2017 16:47
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Capture the cabin air with a pump, then just open the hatch? After the EVA is completed, close the hatch and return the air to the cabin.
a. What pumps? Never been done in space before.
b. Not everything in the cabin is compatible with a vacuum.
c. Again, the suits are not EVA suits.
How did Gemini do it?
