SpaceX Crewed Dragon Circumlunar Mission

[abaddon]

The SpaceNews article cites the Space Show interview, in which she does mention the Lunar mission.  She even said it was a mission she would be interested in (unlike going to Mars).  It is predicated on the crew missions and FH going well first, is all.

[jak Kennedy]

So after a search in this discussion, I don't see any reference to whether the Dragon would be able to do a Direct Return Burn as the Apollo was capable of doing. I know without adding extra fuel and motors it currently isn't able to but wouldn't this be critical?

[mainmind]

The SpaceNews article cites the Space Show interview, in which she does mention the Lunar mission.  She even said it was a mission she would be interested in (unlike going to Mars).  It is predicated on the crew missions and FH going well first, is all.

Ah. Thanks for clarifying that! Didn't have time to listen to the whole interview. Here's a link to that show for those who do have time: http://www.thespaceshow.com/show/22-jun-2017/broadcast-2934-ms.-gwynne-shotwell

[whitelancer64]

So after a search in this discussion, I don't see any reference to whether the Dragon would be able to do a Direct Return Burn as the Apollo was capable of doing. I know without adding extra fuel and motors it currently isn't able to but wouldn't this be critical?

Assuming the 2nd stage stays on the Dragon after the TLI burn, it could do a direct abort.

[envy887]

So after a search in this discussion, I don't see any reference to whether the Dragon would be able to do a Direct Return Burn as the Apollo was capable of doing. I know without adding extra fuel and motors it currently isn't able to but wouldn't this be critical?

Depends how the risk analysis trades out. Adding some fuel and motors increases the risk of something going wrong, and of course if something does go wrong there's a good chance that it will kill your return motor (this happened on Apollo 13, BTW). There are a limited number of scenarios where a return motor does more good than it harms.

So adding other system redundancies might be worth more than a return motor.

[ChrisWilson68]

So after a search in this discussion, I don't see any reference to whether the Dragon would be able to do a Direct Return Burn as the Apollo was capable of doing. I know without adding extra fuel and motors it currently isn't able to but wouldn't this be critical?

Apollo went into orbit around the Moon, then had to do a burn to go from lunar orbit back to Earth.  This mission won't go into orbit around the Moon, so there's no need for a further burn.  It will just be in an orbit around the Earth that is highly eccentric -- eccentric enough to go all the way around the Moon.  It will come back to very near the Earth.  A very small burn (or perhaps even a nudge from the Moon's gravity) will cause the orbit to intersect with Earth's atmosphere and it will reenter.

[jak Kennedy]

So after a search in this discussion, I don't see any reference to whether the Dragon would be able to do a Direct Return Burn as the Apollo was capable of doing. I know without adding extra fuel and motors it currently isn't able to but wouldn't this be critical?

Assuming the 2nd stage stays on the Dragon after the TLI burn, it could do a direct abort.

Unless the second stage has a problem

[jak Kennedy]

So after a search in this discussion, I don't see any reference to whether the Dragon would be able to do a Direct Return Burn as the Apollo was capable of doing. I know without adding extra fuel and motors it currently isn't able to but wouldn't this be critical?

Apollo went into orbit around the Moon, then had to do a burn to go from lunar orbit back to Earth.  This mission won't go into orbit around the Moon, so there's no need for a further burn.  It will just be in an orbit around the Earth that is highly eccentric -- eccentric enough to go all the way around the Moon.  It will come back to very near the Earth.  A very small burn (or perhaps even a nudge from the Moon's gravity) will cause the orbit to intersect with Earth's atmosphere and it will reenter.

No I was thinking if the second stage is not able to complete the burn. Perhaps then Dragon would just loop below the moon and return anyway

[envy887]

So after a search in this discussion, I don't see any reference to whether the Dragon would be able to do a Direct Return Burn as the Apollo was capable of doing. I know without adding extra fuel and motors it currently isn't able to but wouldn't this be critical?

Assuming the 2nd stage stays on the Dragon after the TLI burn, it could do a direct abort.

Unless the second stage has a problem

If the 2nd stage has a problem during TLI that leaves Dragon in an orbit short of the correct lunar free return, Dragon can always do a burn with its Dracos that lowers it's apogee significantly and gets it back to Earth in no more than 8 hours and probably much less.

After TLI, the 2nd stage would likely be jettisoned. Dragon has enough fuel (for the landing engines) to shorten it's return significantly for some time after TLI. After it reaches a certain point of no return, it's going round the Moon regardless...

Apollo did the same thing, although its point of no return was much further than Dragon's would be.

[MATTBLAK]

The SpaceNews article cites the Space Show interview, in which she does mention the Lunar mission.  She even said it was a mission she would be interested in (unlike going to Mars).  It is predicated on the crew missions and FH going well first, is all.

The Dragon circumlunar flight is all the spaceflight I would ever need. Would that I could afford it!!

[jstrout]

In February, SpaceX announced that they would be flying two paying tourists around the Moon in 2018 (see also Wikipedia).

I can't find it now, but I'm sure I read at the time that this the two participants would begin training around the end of this year (2017).

Since the original announcement, I haven't seen anything at all.  Chirping crickets, all quiet on the space front.

But the community here is more in touch with space goings-on than anywhere else... any signs of life for this mission?  Any chance it's still on target for launch a year from now?

[Jarnis]

In February, SpaceX announced that they would be flying two paying tourists around the Moon in 2018 (see also Wikipedia).

I can't find it now, but I'm sure I read at the time that this the two participants would begin training around the end of this year (2017).

Since the original announcement, I haven't seen anything at all.  Chirping crickets, all quiet on the space front.

But the community here is more in touch with space goings-on than anywhere else... any signs of life for this mission?  Any chance it's still on target for launch a year from now?

First, until the first FH flies (and flies good, ie. no unplanned disassembly events), the schedule is very notional. There are at least 2 other unmanned FH missions prior to the lunar trip and Dragon 2 itself has to be proven (for Commercial Crew). So many major tickboxes that need to be filled which, if any issues crop up, instantly push this mission to the right.

2018 is theoretically possible but would require about half-dozen major items going right on first try without further delays. 2019 is far more likely, but the date is very much up in the air until we have FH and Dragon 2 tested and working.

No news that I've heard about any training etc. I thought the paying customers wanted to keep low profile until closer to launch - which makes sense, because it would look mighty silly to go public and then end up getting delayed and delayed due to any problems that cropped up. They really have no reason to publicize anything until few months prior to the mission when actual hardware for the mission is built and "happening"-status is "go".

[vapour_nudge]

The SpaceNews article cites the Space Show interview, in which she does mention the Lunar mission.  She even said it was a mission she would be interested in (unlike going to Mars).  It is predicated on the crew missions and FH going well first, is all.

The Dragon circumlunar flight is all the spaceflight I would ever need. Would that I could afford it!!

Perhaps you could start a thread for crowd funding Matt's circumlunar trip through NSF?

[Bob Shaw]

Apollo 12 flew through Earth’s shadow back in 1969, and recorded the event on film. Been there, done that!

[MATTBLAK]

The SpaceNews article cites the Space Show interview, in which she does mention the Lunar mission.  She even said it was a mission she would be interested in (unlike going to Mars).  It is predicated on the crew missions and FH going well first, is all.

The Dragon circumlunar flight is all the spaceflight I would ever need. Would that I could afford it!!

Perhaps you could start a thread for crowd funding Matt's circumlunar trip through NSF?

I'd approve that! I'd even face my extreme distaste for being motion-sick for the privilege of doing such a mission. And at age 52; I'm still plenty young enough to do it. But in my story 'Flight Of The Lunar Dragon'; the characters of 'John Smith' and 'Peter Jones' will have to act instead as my avatars on a ship of the imagination... (I'm writing the sequel now )

[Svetoslav]

I'd say that the schedule is quite optimistic.

Saturn V flew for a first time on 9 November 1967 as an unmanned test - Apollo 4. Then if flew for another test - Apollo 6. It took a year+another month to send humans around the Moon - in December 1968.

Thus said, if the first Falcon Heavy is successful (which I doubt) in December 2017, I see the first lunar mission in January 2019 at the earliest. Not impossible, but very improbable. SpaceX doesn't have an Apollo budget, the vehicle should have some successful unmanned flights before a manned lunar shot. Plus we're not living in Apollo times, companies aren't in hurry and they launch when they feel confident.

[Lar]

SpaceX doesn't NEED an "Apollo budget" for this project since all the pieces are being developed for other uses.

[woods170]

In February, SpaceX announced that they would be flying two paying tourists around the Moon in 2018 (see also Wikipedia).

I can't find it now, but I'm sure I read at the time that this the two participants would begin training around the end of this year (2017).

Since the original announcement, I haven't seen anything at all.  Chirping crickets, all quiet on the space front.

But the community here is more in touch with space goings-on than anywhere else... any signs of life for this mission?  Any chance it's still on target for launch a year from now?

SpaceX stated that the mission could fly as early as 2018. More specifically SpaceX noted a 2018 -2020 timeframe. Which means that the 2018 date was very much a NET: No Earlier Then. Which, in the case of SpaceX, automatically translates into: Probably Later Then.

Also, this circumlunar mission will not fly until Crew Dragon has proven itself on both its demo missions and at least one operational mission. Given the current delays in CCP it is fairly safe to guesstimate that the circumlunar mission will not occur before 2019.

Also: FH needs to be fully operational. That requires several launches.

[MATTBLAK]

In February, SpaceX announced that they would be flying two paying tourists around the Moon in 2018 (see also Wikipedia).

I can't find it now, but I'm sure I read at the time that this the two participants would begin training around the end of this year (2017).

Since the original announcement, I haven't seen anything at all.  Chirping crickets, all quiet on the space front.

But the community here is more in touch with space goings-on than anywhere else... any signs of life for this mission?  Any chance it's still on target for launch a year from now?

SpaceX stated that the mission could fly as early as 2018. More specifically SpaceX noted a 2018 -2020 timeframe. Which means that the 2018 date was very much a NET: No Earlier Then. Which, in the case of SpaceX, automatically translates into: Probably Later Then.

Also, this circumlunar mission will not fly until Crew Dragon has proven itself on both its demo missions and at least one operational mission. Given the current delays in CCP it is fairly safe to guesstimate that the circumlunar mission will not occur before 2019.

Also: FH needs to be fully operational. That requires several launches.

Falcon Heavy; yes, three or four launches at minimum.

[Star One]

With all the things that have to go right first and be tested out 2018 has always seem a rather ludicrous timeframe.