SpaceX Crewed Dragon Circumlunar Mission

[Negan]

LON mission concept: Before flight, prep a FH/Dragon-2 for flight with propulsion pallet in HIF. On emergency, prepare/validate for flight, erect, launch.

If no emergency, remove propulsion pallet from free return commercial flight that would fly in a week.

Now, its likely that Orion flights would never need this. However, the public is very unforgiving of "Marooned" astro's, out there suffocating. And at the moment, Dragon-2 would be the "best bet". Cheap contingency.

Don't you think?

I think cheap contingency could also equal cheap replacement so yeah sounds like a good plan to me.

[Negan]

You misunderstand the point of such testing.

Testing always delivers confidence. Especially if it fails, because you bring on such a failure in the context of well-planned and on the scene contingencies. You won't have these during actual missions.

Always think "belt and suspenders". As to certification process, it either finds holes for Starliner/Orion, or it confirms the process with actual flight data. There's nothing bad. And its cheaper than EFT-2.

Yes I see your point. Definitely a good idea for NASA to encourage SpaceX to do this test before certification is complete.

[Space Ghost 1962]

LON mission concept: Before flight, prep a FH/Dragon-2 for flight with propulsion pallet in HIF. On emergency, prepare/validate for flight, erect, launch.

If no emergency, remove propulsion pallet from free return commercial flight that would fly in a week.

Now, its likely that Orion flights would never need this. However, the public is very unforgiving of "Marooned" astro's, out there suffocating. And at the moment, Dragon-2 would be the "best bet". Cheap contingency.

Don't you think?

I think cheap contingency could also equal cheap replacement so yeah sounds like a good plan to me.

They aren't qualified or spec'd the same. For rescue, Dragon ECLSS might just barely cut it.

I'm not surprised though you'd think this. Any emergency capability would be viewed the same way. I believe that's part of the thinking that got Soyuz into the role it plays as transporting American crews to the ISS.

add:

Although come to think of it, that works both ways. What if there were a Russian need for crew transport on demand? Perhaps from high inclination LEO, or even cislunar/lunar?

"Practice makes perfect"

[Proponent]

The Apollo limitation of monthly launch windows was driven by the constraint to land shortly after lunar dawn at the landing site, so you're looking down-sun and there are elongated shadows to show obstacles in the landing field. If you're just doing a fly-by, you could launch almost any day - and with a preliminary parking orbit in LEO, with wide launch windows.

If I were the tourist paying for the flight, I think I'd want a low sun angle at the point of closest approach.

[alang]

The Apollo limitation of monthly launch windows was driven by the constraint to land shortly after lunar dawn at the landing site, so you're looking down-sun and there are elongated shadows to show obstacles in the landing field. If you're just doing a fly-by, you could launch almost any day - and with a preliminary parking orbit in LEO, with wide launch windows.

If I were the tourist paying for the flight, I think I'd want a low sun angle at the point of closest approach.

I'd like a flight over the poles and along the terminator, if it were compatible with an achievable free return orbit. It would be something new for a human cargo.

[QuantumG]

Perhaps when customers actually start flying the Russians will lift their game.

[matthewkantar]

If I were to be offered for free the first flight on a Russian or SpaceX circumlunar joyride, I would love to go. If we're forced to pick one, I do t know which I would choose, all things considered.

Matthew

[ChrisWilson68]

I really don't think it's likely at all that SpaceX would change the demo mission into one that tests long-term crewed free-flight by Dragon like that.  NASA wouldn't like it, and it also brings unnecessary risk for SpaceX.

[rockets4life97]

I really don't think it's likely at all that SpaceX would change the demo mission into one that tests long-term crewed free-flight by Dragon like that.  NASA wouldn't like it, and it also brings unnecessary risk for SpaceX.

This has been debated quite a bit in the FH Demo thread. The main reason that SpaceX is unlikely to launch a dragon on the demo flight is that the demo flight is an important step for FH certification of DoD satellite missions. So the payload (likely dummy) needs to be in a fairing and go to GTO.

[rpapo]

I really don't think it's likely at all that SpaceX would change the demo mission into one that tests long-term crewed free-flight by Dragon like that.  NASA wouldn't like it, and it also brings unnecessary risk for SpaceX.

This has been debated quite a bit in the FH Demo thread. The main reason that SpaceX is unlikely to launch a dragon on the demo flight is that the demo flight is an important step for FH certification of DoD satellite missions. So the payload (likely dummy) needs to be in a fairing and go to GTO.

You're confusing the Falcon Heavy Demo with the Crewed Dragon 2 Demo.

[rockets4life97]

I really don't think it's likely at all that SpaceX would change the demo mission into one that tests long-term crewed free-flight by Dragon like that.  NASA wouldn't like it, and it also brings unnecessary risk for SpaceX.

This has been debated quite a bit in the FH Demo thread. The main reason that SpaceX is unlikely to launch a dragon on the demo flight is that the demo flight is an important step for FH certification of DoD satellite missions. So the payload (likely dummy) needs to be in a fairing and go to GTO.

You're confusing the Falcon Heavy test flight with the Crewed Dragon 2 Demo.

My mistake. That tells you how unlikely it is that I think the Crew Dragon Demo flights will be changed. They will happen as planned as per SpaceX's contract with NASA. My brain went to the only other demo flight that *could* possibly be changed.

[mikelepage]

I'm surprised how long it's been since anyone commented on this thread, but I have an extended lunar flyby concept that I think is possible.

Basically I was wondering what other "destinations" were possible with a crewed Dragon on the Falcon Heavy, that would also be a stepping stone for Mars exploration plans.

Two elements here:
1) As someone who has experienced a total solar eclipse (Cairns 2011), I totally get why "eclipse chasers" exist - partial solar eclipses, and lunar eclipses are cool and all, but I defy anyone not to have a profound emotional experience during the seconds of solar eclipse totality where you can actually take your solar protective glasses off and look at the corona.

This got me to wondering about seeing a total solar eclipse... but with Earth as the occluding body.  This hypothetical "ultimate eclipse chaser" mission would do a flyby of the moon, then out to just inside Sun-Earth L2, at ~1.35 million km.  Small burn at apogee brings you back to Earth surface in around 65 days (I think).

2) For the exercise of it, the mission could continues as a Mars-analogue upon touch-down, say in some remote wilderness. (For example, here: -52.9679073, 73.3056220).  Say an advance team has put an inflatable greenhouse with non-perishable supplies at the location.  The astronaut(s) would have to climb out of the Dragon themselves after 2 months in space, and set up the camp.  The only living plants/animals would come with them in the Dragon, so it would basically be a (sort of) rehearsal process for what would actually happen upon landing on Mars.  Useful I think, and personally I would love to do this...

[MATTBLAK]

Before a six day Circumlunar mission - does anybody think or even know if SpaceX might do a solo Earth Orbital mission with a crew of two, to fully 'shake down' the craft and it's life support system for a mission of this duration?

[spacenut]

Aren't they supposed to do the Dragon 2 human mission early next year?  That would be the "shake down".  Then circumlunar later in December to mark the 50 years since Apollo 8 circled the moon.  They will probably shoot an empty one around the moon first also before humans.   

[MATTBLAK]

I doubt they will make the December 2018 'deadline'. Other Apollo 50th anniversaries they could aim for would be March 2019 for Apollo 10, July 2019 for Apollo 11, December 2019 for Apollo 12 and April 2020 for Apollo 13...

[rsdavis9]

I doubt they will make the December 2018 'deadline'. Other Apollo 50th anniversaries they could aim for would be March 2019 for Apollo 10, July 2019 for Apollo 11, December 2019 for Apollo 12 and April 2020 for Apollo 13...

I hope they don't try for apollo 13...

[ChrisWilson68]

Basically I was wondering what other "destinations" were possible with a crewed Dragon on the Falcon Heavy, that would also be a stepping stone for Mars exploration plans.

It's an interesting topic, but not the topic of this thread.  This thread is specifically for one particular mission that is planned for 2018.

[MATTBLAK]

I doubt they will make the December 2018 'deadline'. Other Apollo 50th anniversaries they could aim for would be March 2019 for Apollo 10, July 2019 for Apollo 11, December 2019 for Apollo 12 and April 2020 for Apollo 13...

I hope they don't try for apollo 13...

I used that Anniversary in my story (see page 54 of this thread, if you haven't already )

[CuddlyRocket]

This got me to wondering about seeing a total solar eclipse... but with Earth as the occluding body.

Just wait until nightfall!

I'm assuming you mean the situation where the Earth exactly covers the disc of the Sun and you can then see the corona and prominences etc? Unfortunately, the amount of sunlight refracted through the Earth's atmosphere precludes this.

However, there are many points in cislunar space (off-Earth) where the Moon exactly covers the disc of the Sun. Perhaps it's possible, if you get the geometry right, that some of these points could lie on a circumlunar orbital trajectory? Alternatively (simultaneously?), you might be able to maintain the eclipse for an extended period of time? But you'd need someone more expert in orbital mechanics than I am to answer those questions!

[mainmind]

Gwen Shotwell is quoted in this SpaceNews article that there will be two Falcon Heavy launches in 2018, but doesn't mention the circumlunar flight. Hmm...

“We’ll be flying Arabsat to [geostationary transfer orbit] on the second Falcon Heavy flight, and then we’ll be flying STP-2, an Air Force mission,” she said.

http://spacenews.com/spacexs-final-falcon-9-design-coming-this-year-two-falcon-heavy-launches-next-year/