SpaceX Crewed Dragon Circumlunar Mission

[mikelepage]

Hey, guys... I've finished my story dramatizing a notional Dragon manned Circumlunar flight.

Great effort Matt.  Particularly liked the idea for the cube sats flying in formation!  Seems like a fairly harmless add-on, and I can already see the photo of Earth-rise with Dragon in the foreground.  Also very courageous of you to write about something so near in the future, and for which we already have a pretty good idea of how it has to go.

I only hope that whoever the explorers are, that they can hold their own in front of a camera and are charismatic personalities - with good chemistry/banter between them (it won't be Neil deGrasse Tyson and Stephen Colbert, but that kind of science communicator/comedian host pairing of personalities would be amazing).  I'd like to think that would have figured into Elon's mental calculation - this is a publicity exercise as well.

[IRobot]

I wonder if sailing for a week prior to launch would help. Usually it takes me also 3 days to get my sea legs...

I think so. Other research has shown that you can help your inner ear adapt with certain strategies.

Or they'll find out that you can be simultaneously both sea sick and space sick.

If I sail for more than a week, I get "earth-sick"

I think the sea adaptation is that you expect a constant change of balance, although with some periodicity. In space, I would expect a change of balance depending on momentum. In principle, sea adaptation would help...

@Robotbeat, do you have any reference to a research on that?

[Bob Shaw]

I bet the round-the-Moon tourists turn out to be Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos... ...it makes a certain amount of sense!

Almost.

[Robotbeat]

I bet the round-the-Moon tourists turn out to be Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos... ...it makes a certain amount of sense!

Almost.

I doubt it, but can you imagine if Elon and Bezos decided to settle their differences once and for all in deep space behind the Moon with their Lady Vivamus swords dueling in space suits? 😂

[laszlo]

I wonder if sailing for a week prior to launch would help. Usually it takes me also 3 days to get my sea legs...

I think so. Other research has shown that you can help your inner ear adapt with certain strategies.

Or they'll find out that you can be simultaneously both sea sick and space sick.

If I sail for more than a week, I get "earth-sick"

I think the sea adaptation is that you expect a constant change of balance, although with some periodicity. In space, I would expect a change of balance depending on momentum. In principle, sea adaptation would help...

@Robotbeat, do you have any reference to a research on that?

I've been sailing for over 40 years, a licensed pilot since the 80's and have flown parabolic arcs in the vomit comet (as an unmedicated passenger). I have yet to get seasick, the closest I've come to airsickness was practicing dutch rolls  in 90+ degree weather when my instructor had accidentally left the air vents shut. I never came close to  zero-g sickness.

For me, the sensations for the 3 experiences are so completely different that I don't see at all how one can prepare you for the others. To me, zero-g didn't actually feel like anything was actually moving. I got heavier and lighter, but it felt as if the aircraft was not moving at all - a testament to the skill of the pilots who kept the flight coordinated. The gravitation vector was straight up and down, as far as my inner ears could tell, it just kept alternating between 2G and 0G.

I could tell when I moved inside the cabin, but that was similar to being able to tell when you are walking. If you want a good demonstration of what spending time in 0G is like, try doing a bunch of floor gymnastics, with lots of tucks and rolls and somersaults, then lie down flat. The jiggling of your ears' gyros and the movement of snot in your sinuses leave you with a similar feeling to having experienced 2 to 0 gee and having bounced off the walls and ceiling. If you feel fine or only mildly disoriented, you're probably a good candidate for 0G, especially since in a long spaceflight you wouldn't be alternating over a 2G range every few minutes, you'd be in 0G for the bulk of the flight.

[savuporo]

I bet the round-the-Moon tourists turn out to be Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos... ...it makes a certain amount of sense!

Almost.

I doubt it, but can you imagine if Elon and Bezos decided to settle their differences once and for all in deep space behind the Moon with their Lady Vivamus swords dueling in space suits? 😂

Well, at least one of them has been practicing

[Nomadd]

I bet the round-the-Moon tourists turn out to be Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos... ...it makes a certain amount of sense!

Almost.

I doubt it, but can you imagine if Elon and Bezos decided to settle their differences once and for all in deep space behind the Moon with their Lady Vivamus swords dueling in space suits? 😂

Well, at least one of them has been practicing

I could have used him today. I was in one of his yards, pruning his trees that were hitting my roof.

[mikelepage]

I bet the round-the-Moon tourists turn out to be Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos... ...it makes a certain amount of sense!

Almost.

I doubt it, but can you imagine if Elon and Bezos decided to settle their differences once and for all in deep space behind the Moon with their Lady Vivamus swords dueling in space suits? 😂

Well, at least one of them has been practicing

That's our Elon... says multiple times "this is crazy" and then goes and does it anyway. 

Also, based on that performance, I wouldn't be recommending Elon duels with swords anytime soon.   

[Semmel]

Well, at least one of them has been practicing

Ohh god, I hope no body tries this as well. What an incredibly stupid thing to do. Luckily, the sword wasn't really sharp, it would probably just have broken a few fingers and not cut them off. But being trained in actual sword fighting, this was extremely painful to watch. Also, holding the sword like that showed how little he knows about using it. That right there was the equivalent of launching a rocket without following a predefined set of rules.

[meekGee]

Luckily the sword wasn't fueled

[Barrie]

The real purpose of the mission is to conclude principal photography for Machete Kills Again...In Space.

Elon said it wasn't Hollywood types, but Troublemaker Studios is in Austin. 

[yg1968]

A good article by Jeff Foust on the SpaceX circumlunar mission and prior history of such attempts:

http://spacenews.com/a-short-history-of-lunar-space-tourism/

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Not quite sure this is what SpaceX's customers signed-up for 

Elon Musk‏ Verified account @elonmusk 11s12 seconds ago

Here is the latest SpaceX travel ad for the flight around the moon & into deep space. Maybe needs a few edits ...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/846667837716410368

[pyromatter]

Steve Jurvetson doing a AMA on https://www.producthunt.com/live/steve-jurvetson?preview=0ec4f9107a#comment-447681

@searchresults
Would you – hypothetically – fly around the moon on, let's say, a SpaceX Dragon 2 capsule?

For sure! But, unlike the Apollo era, in the commercial space era, it should become cheaper and safer over time. I have two specific missions in mind (and I don’t have much interest in suborbital flight or anything shy of these):
• spending a few days in a commercial space hotel in low Earth orbit and
• a lunar orbital mission, going much closer to the surface than Apollo X, but not landing.

For both trips I am excited about the photography. For the lunar trip, there would not be as many creature comforts or space for weightless play, but the views are pretty breathtaking. Earthrise, the dark side of the moon, Earth and moon at various distances.

Since the moon has no atmosphere, it presents a unique orbital opportunity – we could fly incredibly close to the surface while staying in lunar orbit. Apollo X dropped to an orbit 47K feet off the surface – like a private jet altitude over Earth.

If the goal is tourism, you could go much lower, and with no landing, it could have a downward facing window optimized for the views. I would want to figure out the tradeoff of orbital altitude and surface speed — skimming a thousand feet over the highest crater (Zeppelin altitudes) would be amazing, but might be dizzying. But, since the moon has 1/6 the mass of Earth, the orbital speeds at any given altitude are about 1/6 as fast... so it could be slow and low, that is the tempo... =)

Why not land? The cost and complexity just explodes, as the Russians discovered in the space race. For a new tourist activity, so does the risk. And to what benefit? With the full Apollo stack with EV on the moon, yes, you could cover some distance, but not as much as you can see in orbit. Bouncing around on foot just does not grab me as an essential first person experience. And, moon gravity and Mars gravity is easily simulated on the parabolic planes if that’s the key attraction.

And all that weight and design constraint would likely tradeoff with the window-optimized design. I would rather spend more time in orbit, at various heights, than attempt a landing.

I do wonder about a spacewalk. These EVA activities are a much easier engineering challenge, and might not tradeoff with the earlier goals. Michael Collins marveled at his EVA in Earth orbit:

“This is the best view of the universe that a human has ever had. We are gliding across the world in total silence, with absolute smoothness; a motion of stately grace which makes me feel God-like as I stand erect in my sideways chariot, cruising the night sky.

I am in the cosmic arena, the place to gain a celestial perspective; it remains only to slow down long enough to capture it, even a teacup will do, will last a lifetime below."

[JazzFan]

A good article by Jeff Foust on the SpaceX circumlunar mission and prior history of such attempts:

http://spacenews.com/a-short-history-of-lunar-space-tourism/

No mention of Excalibur-Almaz.  On the other hand, I wouldn't expect Elon to have anything to do with old hardware, especially museum pieces. 

[Space Ghost 1962]

A good article by Jeff Foust on the SpaceX circumlunar mission and prior history of such attempts:

http://spacenews.com/a-short-history-of-lunar-space-tourism/

Best part:

SpaceX arguably is in a better position than others to attempt such a mission. It has both all the key hardware under development and the financial resources to prepare them for such a mission, which previous efforts have lacked.

True. But there are a few more critical advantages too. SX on the next CRS flight is reusing a Dragon, in addition to potentially reusing the boosters as well. So there's a considerable amount of reuse that could in theory allow a future profitability improvement that cheap Russian labor on LV/SC couldn't compete with.

Also, the CONOPS of such SX missions are an order of magnitude simpler then the other approaches. This matters a great deal, because the complexity of the simplest  lunar mission is already high enough to begin with.

add:
Thinking about this more ... as to who else could compete, should this become a "repeat" business. The only one would be BO. Could they with NG match FH with an identical capability?

If Musk has revenues from geosats, govt HSF, and now possibly commercial lunar HSF, how long would he have these markets each to dominate? If you are a rival, you don't want to leave your markets unchallenged for too long, because your cost/barriers to entry grow too high to enter - you never make up the lost time.

China is moving to triple spending on space (although NASA's current budget is more than 6x China's), and jump start space entrepreneurship (more like ULA fashion) by transferring a few govt LV/propulsion to the private sector, with an eye on reuse and not letting BO/SX get too far ahead, for the same reason. They are even talking about commercial HSF.

[Zed_Noir]

@Space Ghost 1962

Do you think the Chinese government got spooked by the SX circumlunar announcement? Especially just before the SES-10 launch with "flight proven" hardware. So as to accelerate their Space program development.

[Space Ghost 1962]

@Space Ghost 1962

Do you think the Chinese government got spooked by the SX circumlunar announcement? Especially just before the SES-10 launch with "flight proven" hardware. So as to accelerate their Space program development.

Yes.

But they already were spooked by SX and BO's efforts already. Among many, many other countries.

When modest sized companies funded at a respective fraction of budget out compete national arsenal systems, doing things that their best scientists/engineers won't touch for 3-4x budget, yeah, it gets to them.

They interpret it as a form of an arms race. That all they know is that they aren't winning it.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Relevant here:

Here's a view from a true space industry giant:

Had a good visit with Chris Kraft today. Now 93, he's still engaged. Had to give up golf, but he's now a mall walker! (Baybrook Mall)

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/847882433706020864

Chris was "very impressed" by @SpaceX and their launch Thursday. But he's not thrilled with their lunar flyby. "Too risky."

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/847882800682463232

[Space Ghost 1962]

Relevant here:

Here's a view from a true space industry giant:

Had a good visit with Chris Kraft today. Now 93, he's still engaged. Had to give up golf, but he's now a mall walker! (Baybrook Mall)

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/847882433706020864

Chris was "very impressed" by @SpaceX and their launch Thursday. But he's not thrilled with their lunar flyby. "Too risky."

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/847882800682463232

In his book "Flight" (recommended), he speaks of shutting down Apollo because it was too risky to fly.

The man does understand risk.

Someone should ask him if he would dare it if it was made available to him.

And ... what would Bob Gilruth have thought of both?