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#40 by psloss on 07 Sep, 2006 14:52
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Felix - 7/9/2006 10:22 AM
Wayne Hale said they've downselected a foam-based design (vs. a titanium covering). Regarding weather, I don't understand your logic -- there's always a chance that weather will prohibit launch. I don't understand why the weather forecast would inform or influence a technical decision.1. They've downselected the final design?
2. There's a promising (70%) forecast for tomorrow and there is a chance that weather will prohibt launch in late september. It's an unpredictable "risk".
If the forecast for Friday was bad, wouldn't that logic suggest standing down for R&R?
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#41 by Felix on 07 Sep, 2006 15:01
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psloss - 7/9/2006 9:39 AM
QuoteFelix - 7/9/2006 10:22 AM
Wayne Hale said they've downselected a foam-based design (vs. a titanium covering). Regarding weather, I don't understand your logic -- there's always a chance that weather will prohibit launch. I don't understand why the weather forecast would inform or influence a technical decision. If the forecast for Friday was bad, wouldn't that logic suggest standing down for R&R?1. They've downselected the final design?
2. There's a promising (70%) forecast for tomorrow and there is a chance that weather will prohibt launch in late september. It's an unpredictable "risk".
There's a risk that they loose FC1 and there is a risk that they can not launch in late september (for whatever reasons). NASA has to weigh these risks and I (personally) think launching tomorrow is much less risky because it's quite predictable and on the other hand trying to launch in september (and replacing that fuel cell) isn't.
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#42 by psloss on 07 Sep, 2006 15:06
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Felix - 7/9/2006 10:48 AM
OK, so you think the fuel cell R&R is risky. Got it.There's a risk that they loose FC1 and there is a risk that they can not launch in late september (for whatever reasons). NASA has to weigh these risks and I (personally) think launching tomorrow is much less risky because it's quite predictable and on the other hand trying to launch in september (and replacing that fuel cell) isn't.
Can you explain what about tomorrow you think is less risky and quite predictable?
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#43 by shuttlefan on 07 Sep, 2006 15:10
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If I would have anything to say about it, I realize I don't obviously, delay and replace the fuel cell.
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#44 by nathan.moeller on 07 Sep, 2006 15:34
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What time can we expect a press briefing? I'm gonna try to catch it in the architecture building.
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#45 by Felix on 07 Sep, 2006 15:39
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psloss - 7/9/2006 9:53 AM
OK, so you think the fuel cell R&R is risky. Got it. Can you explain what about tomorrow you think is less risky and quite predictable?
There are favourable conditions tomorrow and it looks like NASA is wait for perfect ones.
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#46 by Mark Nguyen on 07 Sep, 2006 15:42
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I'd just like to say how much I appreciate the jobs of those of you who work on the actual launch. Thanks to this site, I've gotten an unprecedented look into how this stuff happens beyond what we get to see on NASA TV or CNN. And I must say, it's been pretty nerve-wracking! You guys wait for mission meetings, prep for a launch that may not happen, and it's what may be the tiniest thing - a problem that may not even exist - that will push the results of all your work for back days, weeks, or longer.
It's like preparing for your own huge birthday party and then finding that someone has changed your party date on you due to rain, or (in this example) because one of the candles on your cake MIGHT not have enough wick to stay lit for as long as you need it. I realize that this sort of thing is the name of the game for you guys, but as someone newly observing how this works in so much detail, I must say that it seems to be pretty frustrating!
Mark -
#47 by Chris Bergin on 07 Sep, 2006 15:48
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Update:
"There are some actions coming out of the meeting, don't know if they are already actioned but UTC has an action to Verify that coolant pump and hydrogen separator can be run indefinitely on 2 phases" -
#48 by psloss on 07 Sep, 2006 15:50
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Felix - 7/9/2006 11:26 AM
OK. We'll have to agree to disagree, then. I disagree with the idea that weather forecasts should factor into a technical decision.There are favourable conditions tomorrow and it looks like NASA is wait for perfect ones.
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#49 by psloss on 07 Sep, 2006 16:02
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nathan.moeller - 7/9/2006 11:21 AM
The MMT meeting is said to start at 1 pm Eastern. No idea how long it will take. NASA TV page currently says TBD.
What time can we expect a press briefing? I'm gonna try to catch it in the architecture building.
(I also find that an STS-121 Crew Presentation at HQ is scheduled for broadcast at 1 pm Eastern.)
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#50 by Felix on 07 Sep, 2006 16:08
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psloss - 7/9/2006 10:37 AM
OK. We'll have to agree to disagree, then. I disagree with the idea that weather forecasts should factor into a technical decision.
Wasn't weather-related!
There's a clean shuttle at launch pad. No voilations, no safety issues. All they have are indications that something might go wrong and i think it's not worth it to stay on the ground for another month.
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#51 by Jim on 07 Sep, 2006 16:13
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Felix - 7/9/2006 11:55 AM
Quotepsloss - 7/9/2006 10:37 AM
OK. We'll have to agree to disagree, then. I disagree with the idea that weather forecasts should factor into a technical decision.
Wasn't weather-related!
There's a clean shuttle at launch pad. No voilations, no safety issues. All they have are indications that something might go wrong and i think it's not worth it to stay on the ground for another month.
That is the key "All they have are indications that something might go wrong". That's why they are paid to make the descisions and you/we watch
Also, it isn't clean, they have an unexplained anomaly
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#52 by psklenar on 07 Sep, 2006 16:22
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Mark Nguyen - 7/9/2006 11:29 AM
I'd just like to say how much I appreciate the jobs of those of you who work on the actual launch. ...
I need to join with Mark in thanking all of you NASA, USA and other contractor folks for all you're doing for the space program! What I'm learning from this site has been an absolute eye opener. It's wonderful watching the back & forth, coming to understand the pro's & con's of different options and actually understanding the risks involved. Compared to the mainstream media, I feel like I'm sitting an observation lounge over looking the MCC with full audio feeds from all loops and full data feeds on the lounge's own display bank! Something I doubt any such lounge ever had ... or has assuming there is such a room in the new facilities (I've seen the old one in the old Apollo & early shuttle era footage, but don't recall having seen an observation room in any footage of the new MCC).
And to get this SOMEwhat on topic ... based on what I've read here and on L2 ... *I* would feel more comfortable with an R&R. But I'm just a DBA, not an engineer, so I shall bow to the expertise of those who know & support these systems.
Again, thanks for all your doing and to the folks running this site - thank YOU for giving us this chance to listen in and learn!
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#53 by shuttlefan on 07 Sep, 2006 16:42
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I have to join in praising all those involved with the Shuttle Program. I don't know how you people sleep at night. Being an outside observer of the program, I even come upstairs just to check the latest news whenever I happen to wake up during the night. I salute every single one of you Shuttle Program people. I wish I could have coffee with Wayne Hale and/or Leroy Cain, or Mike Leinbach. Just to meet with one of you thousands of shuttle workers would be a thrill of a lifetime.
My hat's off to you!!
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#54 by jacqmans on 07 Sep, 2006 16:43
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#55 by Chris Bergin on 07 Sep, 2006 16:57
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Heading into MMT now. Called OPO Pre-MMT. Should all be on time.
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#56 by dutch courage on 07 Sep, 2006 17:04
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Any thoughts on the time of the Post MMT briefing?
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#57 by Chris Bergin on 07 Sep, 2006 17:11
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dutch courage - 7/9/2006 5:51 PM
Any thoughts on the time of the Post MMT briefing?
Yeah, we just published the pre-MMT overview (second most important doc, as the only other is the actual MMT decision).
Only R&R options are being noted.
And: "No spares are available, therefore replacement LRU will be taken from OV-105" So Endeavour gets to donate to her sister.
Still reading it, so will update when we see more...but only seeing R&R here. -
#58 by Chris Bergin on 07 Sep, 2006 17:13
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Crikey. MOD come up with what looks like a dissenting option, asking to "isolate Phase A" - Reccomendation for Flight!
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#59 by Chris Bergin on 07 Sep, 2006 17:13
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MMT Live:
"No change to 09/06/06 MOD Recommendation
- Isolate Phase A prelaunch and potentially for duration of mission "
