Author Topic: Ariane 5 VA241 -SES-14 (with NASA GOLD payload) & Al Yah-3 Jan. 25, 2018 UPDATES  (Read 256262 times)

Offline Flying Beaver

Digging about and found that SES is holding back a press release on mission success.

Other pages are 404, played around with the URL to get this.

Random, doesn't mean much, but still interesting (?).







Watched B1019 land in person 21/12/2015.

Offline emerrill

  • Member
  • Posts: 94
  • Novi, MI
  • Liked: 20
  • Likes Given: 14
Some (I've found at least 2 so far) news sites are reporting that AFP (French news) was told that the satellites are not in the correct orbits:

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/ariane-5-satellites-orbit-not-location-031339516.html
Quote
But a source told AFP the satellites did not detach from the rocket in the correct place after the craft followed an "imperfect trajectory".

Arianespace said they were currently "repositioning the satellites in the right place using their propulsion systems" adding that the current status was "reassuring after strong concerns".

I can't find the original AFP source - but I also don't know French, so that isn't helping. But take it with a grain of salt til more reputable news sites pick it up.

Online jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3810
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 1587
  • Likes Given: 892
Some (I've found at least 2 so far) news sites are reporting that AFP (French news) was told that the satellites are not in the correct orbits:

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/ariane-5-satellites-orbit-not-location-031339516.html
Quote
But a source told AFP the satellites did not detach from the rocket in the correct place after the craft followed an "imperfect trajectory".

Arianespace said they were currently "repositioning the satellites in the right place using their propulsion systems" adding that the current status was "reassuring after strong concerns".

I can't find the original AFP source - but I also don't know French, so that isn't helping. But take it with a grain of salt til more reputable news sites pick it up.


It seems very unlikely that the payloads are  *already* making orbit manuevers, unless they are in danger of imminent reentry.  And the original story says: Arianespace, contacté par l'AFP, espérait toutefois un futur "repositionnement des satellites "...  which means  Arianespace hopes for a future repositioning of the satellites...
(as opposed to currently repositioning)
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Antares

  • ABO^2
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5181
  • Done arguing with amateurs
  • Liked: 371
  • Likes Given: 228
What are the tracking solutions from Kourou?  S-band, C-band, radar, visual are typical.  How do you not know where the vehicle is even if you lose S-band?  Do they just rely on a brief IIP traverse of Africa?

It's also interesting that the time between the two statements by Arianespace is equal to a LEO period.

Two inconclusive launches to start 2018.  Blech.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline Flying Beaver

Still nothing on tracking.

NORAD IDs should be 43174, 75, 76 & 77. They'll give good confirmation of what we're dealing with here.

73 doesn't show up on most lists but is from the Chinese launch this morning.
Watched B1019 land in person 21/12/2015.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57559
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 94673
  • Likes Given: 44572
Posted a few hours ago, after the Arianespace update:

Quote
I'm told SES 14, with its fully electric propulsion system, will be able to reach its orbital station at geostationary altitude 22,000 miles over the equator. Still unclear whether or not Ariane 5 delivered SES 14 and Al Yah 3 to the targeted transfer orbit.

https://twitter.com/stephenclark1/status/956698707268964352

Offline Kosmos2001

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 191
  • CAT
  • Liked: 66
  • Likes Given: 169
It's still unclear whether it can be called a success or not.

Offline Eosterwine

  • Member
  • Posts: 79
  • Liked: 48
  • Likes Given: 0
It's still unclear whether it can be called a success or not.

Yes true, the lack of contact with the satellites after they were predicted to separate and contact ground receivers is a little ominous. But things look a little better than they did when I went to bed last night, when it looked like the mission had been a total loss.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7217
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 818
  • Likes Given: 914
It's a lesson we learned with the VS09 mission anomaly a couple of years back but it bears repeating: The commentators are usually reading from a prepared script and will tell us the planned events at the appropriate time. However, there is no guarantee that that event has happened or that there is any confirmation of which they are aware. I don't think that the VA241 commentator was aware of the anomaly and, even if they were, I doubt that they had the authority to diverge from their script to mention it.

I think, for the future, we need to agree that we base our assessment of 'mission success' on more than the Arianespace commentator saying 'mission success' because they may not know... or, if they do, they may not be permitted to say so.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline Kosmos2001

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 191
  • CAT
  • Liked: 66
  • Likes Given: 169
It's still unclear whether it can be called a success or not.

Yes true, the lack of contact with the satellites after they were predicted to separate and contact ground receivers is a little ominous. But things look a little better than they did when I went to bed last night, when it looked like the mission had been a total loss.

In Wikipedia it is called a success, though. :/
« Last Edit: 01/26/2018 07:03 am by Kosmos2001 »

Online Galactic Penguin SST

The definite call will be from Space Track of the USAF, but they haven't released the TLEs from this launch yet as of this moment.
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery.

Online Galactic Penguin SST

SES-14 owner @SES_Satellites: Off-target dropoff from @ArianeGroup @Arianespace Ariane 5 means all-electric propulsion to take 4 weeks longer than planned to get to GEO. Sat in good health, no other issues. Still awaiting word from @OrbitalATK & @yahsatofficial on Al Yah 3.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/956810114207543296

Sounds like the orbit is off target, although probably not by much if the extra time to GEO is "only" 4 weeks for an all ion thruster powered satellite.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2018 07:50 am by Galactic Penguin SST »
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery.

Offline Kryten

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 736
  • Liked: 429
  • Likes Given: 33
https://www.ses.com/press-release/ses-14-good-health-and-track-despite-launch-anomaly
Quote
Guiana Space Centre, Kourou, 26 January 2018 – Following the anomaly that occurred during the launch on an Ariane 5 rocket last night, SES announces that it has successfully established a telemetry and telecommand connection to its SES-14 spacecraft and is setting up a new orbit raising plan now. SES-14 would thus reach the geostationary orbit only four weeks later than originally planned. SES confirms that the spacecraft is in good health, all subsystems on board are nominal, and the satellite is expected to meet the designed life time.

SES-14 will be positioned at 47.5 degrees West to serve Latin America, the Caribbean, North America and the North Atlantic region with C- and Ku-band wide beam coverage and Ku-band high throughput spot beam coverage.

Online Galactic Penguin SST

Orbit data from Space Track are in:

43174/2018-012A: 232 x 43163 km x 20.64 deg.
43175/2018-012B: 232 x 43198 km x 20.64 deg.
43176/2018-012C: 169 x 42790 km x 21.01 deg.
43177/2018-012D: 235 x 43153 km x 20.64 deg.

Yes your eyes are not deceiving - the trajectory was so wrong that the satellites ultimately got pushed to 21 degrees inclination orbits! 😑

The planned orbit was 250 x 45234 km x 3.00 deg.
« Last Edit: 01/26/2018 03:06 pm by Galactic Penguin SST »
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery.

Offline Jester

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7987
  • Earth
  • Liked: 6596
  • Likes Given: 159
« Last Edit: 02/01/2018 10:39 am by Jester »

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12502
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 20147
  • Likes Given: 14023

Offline GWR64

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1994
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1974
  • Likes Given: 1238
new TLE (source celestrak):
Quote
AL YAH 3               
1 43174U 18012A   18039.17423199 -.00000082  00000-0  00000+0 0  9998
2 43174  21.5526 244.2118 6248756 209.5298 353.4445  1.42826076   247
SES-14                 
1 43175U 18012B   18039.78902189 -.00000096  00000-0  00000+0 0  9992
2 43175  19.1399 228.0802 7421353 239.0858 293.1427  1.70452830   251

a step for Al Yah-3 :
6116 x 47741 km x 21.55 deg, Argument of perigee 209.5 deg

SES 14:
1255 x 45194 km x 19.14 deg,  Argument of perigee 239.1 deg
« Last Edit: 02/08/2018 08:25 pm by GWR64 »

Offline Olaf

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3124
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1481
  • Likes Given: 455
https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/962875395774341120
Quote
The Al Yah 3 and SES-14 satellites continue slow orbit raising, but without significant inclination change so far; current orbits 6111 x 47721 km x 21.5 deg and 1337 x 45374 km x 19.1 deg.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57559
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 94673
  • Likes Given: 44572
Quote
The Al Yah 3 satellite put in the wrong orbit by the last Ariane launch is now approaching GEO; current orbit 22.5hr period, 20828 x 47262 km x 6.2 deg.

https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/964284086503247872

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57559
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 94673
  • Likes Given: 44572
Quote
CEO @Eutelsat says expects @yahsatofficial Al Yah 3 sat, put in bad orbit by @ArianeGroup Ariane 5 Jan 25, will be in service by midsummer.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/964436703447527424

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1