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#280 by punkboi on 07 Sep, 2006 02:18
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Jamie Young - 6/9/2006 5:49 PM If they launch on Friday, it's a big pat on the back to NASA. If they don't, they really didn't want to chance any risk. Don't think anyone can say they have schedule pressure as this could go either way and the data will decide. Very cool day.
If you don't have "Go fever" like many of us do
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#281 by nathan.moeller on 07 Sep, 2006 02:18
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rdale - 6/9/2006 8:53 PM
"Who knows he may move for an extension of that deadline."
Why would anyone change that deadline given current financial / political environments? The public doesn't care (or even know) about 2010.
"But most websites say that the Soyuz will return on September 29."
I don't see that on any website, but regardless it'll come back the night of the 24th (for US, 25th at 3Z-ish globally)
Just an idea. I think if NASA gets into a pickle with delays and what not, an extension could fall onto the table. But I'm sure that's two-three years down the road. And I read that the Soyuz will land on 9/29 at Space.com and Spaceflightnow.com
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts115/060906mmt/
But I guess they were wrong. Just crossed my mind a little while ago. Seems this site and it's posters are more accurate than the press! Are we good or what? -
#282 by collectSPACE on 07 Sep, 2006 02:31
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Quoting NSF's article from a few days ago, which in turn was quoting RSC Energia president Nikolay Sevastyanov:Quote
'Launch of Soyuz TMA-9 on September 18 will allow us to provide a landing opportunity for the Expedition 13 crew on September 29, which is a deadline for the landing in the daytime.
If Atlantis launches on Friday (or Saturday), then Soyuz will return on September 29, which is presently the date for which the Russians are planning. -
#283 by nathan.moeller on 07 Sep, 2006 02:40
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collectspace - 6/9/2006 9:18 PM
Quoting NSF's article from a few days ago, which in turn was quoting RSC Energia president Nikolay Sevastyanov:Quote'Launch of Soyuz TMA-9 on September 18 will allow us to provide a landing opportunity for the Expedition 13 crew on September 29, which is a deadline for the landing in the daytime.
If Atlantis launches on Friday (or Saturday), then Soyuz will return on September 29, which is presently the date for which the Russians are planning.
Right, but some sites said that if Atlantis fails to launch by Friday, it could launch after the return of the Soyuz on what they said would be September 29. I think they got their information and scenarios confused. -
#284 by Jim on 07 Sep, 2006 02:44
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nathan.moeller - 6/9/2006 3:51 PM
Quotepsloss - 6/9/2006 2:44 PM
Quotenathan.moeller - 6/9/2006 3:33 PM
They have to be able to land with the payload -- that's a safety issue. You want to leave it in orbit attached to the station because of the implications of having to launch it twice. (Some of which you noted.)
Have they ever landed with that weight before? I thought I heard Cain say that they wanted to do everything in their power to leave it in orbit so as not to risk an extremely heavy landing. It would be challenging at least with an extra 18 tons on your back I'm sure.
True. I feel really stupid now because I said that to my dad earlier. We were discussing the AOA (abort once around) option if something were to go wrong and how they'd have to be able to land with the payload in that case. In any case it would be difficult handling I bet if you're used to landing an orbiter with a near-empty payload bay. Sorry about that.
Cain: "We will do everything in our power to leave this payload in orbit"
*reporters chuckle*
Cain: "Preferably at the space station."
Suffredini: "...thank you..."
The shuttle can/has to land with the payload - RTLS, TAL, AOA, etc. but it doesn't mean the payload is ok after the landing nor the orbiter -
#285 by Jim on 07 Sep, 2006 02:48
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daveglo - 6/9/2006 3:42 PM
Could any of the knowledgeable folks expand on the pre-flight testing done on the fuel cells? I can't believe anything went to the pad without a thorough functional test prior to launch day. Given the number of times a fuel cell problem has caused a launch/flight issue, I'd have test run them several times in the days/weeks leading to this day.
The fuel cells can't be tested until the PDRS system is loaded, which is only in the early part of the countdown. -
#286 by TNCMAXQ on 07 Sep, 2006 02:48
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"He (our next president) may move for an extension of that deadline."
He or she you mean.
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#287 by Jim on 07 Sep, 2006 02:50
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Joffan - 6/9/2006 1:11 PM
I'm with you Svetoslav but I don't think that NASA is. The process appears to be that any issue has to be proven benign or survivable without flight objective impact.
Personally it seems to me that the impact of not launching with a survivable fault such as this is greater than a full investigation and whole program delay. Even a shortened mission would allow the orbiter to leave the P3/P4 truss on the ISS and safe, after which a program of ISS crew spacewalks might recover some of the slip.
Not if the mission is shortened before the shuttle gets to the ISS -
#288 by nathan.moeller on 07 Sep, 2006 02:51
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TNCMAXQ - 6/9/2006 9:35 PM
"He (our next president) may move for an extension of that deadline."
He or she you mean.
Haha you changed that! But yeah you never know what can happen. After all it was Bush who moved to complete the program by 2010. It's understandable that NASA under a good amount of schedule pressure to get this flight off the ground, since the others can't fly without this one being complete.
But yes...a female president is possible. -
#289 by Jim on 07 Sep, 2006 02:52
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Svetoslav - 6/9/2006 1:22 PM
And if there's a delay what about the shedule? A lot of major components for ISS won't be installed at all. How do you expect the station to be finished in the configuration we want if there are more delays?
The Shuttle will fly out the manifest with the ISS payloads needed -
#290 by c.steven on 07 Sep, 2006 03:00
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I think I read where Wayne said fuel cell 1 continues to operate properly at the time of the press briefing. Are the fuel cells all running now, and does this have much impact on the PDRS load? My guess is they aren't carrying the full power load at this point, but simply running in some type of idle mode. Doesn't most orbiter power come from ground sources until the final couple of minutes in the count? Anybody got an answer?
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#291 by nathan.moeller on 07 Sep, 2006 03:23
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Are they gonna leave the RSS in park position for the countdown to a Friday attempt?
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#292 by Avron on 07 Sep, 2006 03:31
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c.steven - 6/9/2006 10:47 PM
I think I read where Wayne said fuel cell 1 continues to operate properly at the time of the press briefing. Are the fuel cells all running now, and does this have much impact on the PDRS load? My guess is they aren't carrying the full power load at this point, but simply running in some type of idle mode. Doesn't most orbiter power come from ground sources until the final couple of minutes in the count? Anybody got an answer?
Yip.. ground sources.. other wise it would be a risk
is a 50-50 call .. its a rought one..
[beware RANT on]
ok.. lets go back a year or two.. I said that My Hale is no manager (he cannot manage risk or assume any risk).. and today I stick by that.. My LeRoy Cain is.. but you know in this world, talking heads rule... so you guys pick, its your tax dollars ( I am Canadian - my Tax dollars are getting spend on more Important issues - gov advertising)... you choose the world you want... there are a million excuses not to a thing, the really tought job is to try.. its no easy task.. but that world of trying, is been killed by the media, because its an easy target, so pick..
if you pick the route of do nothing.. then give up all that ALL those that have come before you, and those that put their lives up front... for you.. for me .. for all of us... two routes, the easy or the tough one... PICK..
There is a time to make the call I don't know this is it..
[rant off]
Mr LeRoy Cain in my world you are KING... I only wish I could get this to you as you...
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#293 by rdale on 07 Sep, 2006 04:05
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In the grand scheme of life - what's better?
1) Look at more data, make sure things are fine, launch Friday with a full mission
2) Launch Thursday, find out Thursday night that this could be a bigger issue, lose the fuel cell on Day 2 and bring P3/P4 home, putting the ISS schedule way behind.
If Thursday was the end of the window - I think they would have gone ahead and done it. But since all we lose is a day by waiting, I can think of no reason not to wait.
To call him a 'talking head' based on watching some NASA TV is ridiculous. You don't know him or his decisions or his work ethic or anything else. It amazes me how people become so judgemental with so little info. -
#294 by realtime on 07 Sep, 2006 04:21
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I thought Hale did a fine job fielding some fairly tough questions, and he showed some good decision-making instincts when he said that (and I paraphrase) "the suggestions for what to do went all across the spectrum, which to me, raised a yellow flag that we needed some time to study it more".
There's a time to talk and a time to listen. Hale seems to listen pretty well. There's also a time to think and a time to act. They're not through the thinking part yet.
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#295 by jacqmans on 07 Sep, 2006 04:36
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Sept. 6, 2006
Tracy Young/Katherine Trinidad
Kennedy Space Center, Fla.
321-867-2468
RELEASE: 06-400
NASA AIMS FOR POSSIBLE SHUTTLE LAUNCH ATTEMPT FRIDAY
NASA is targeting a possible launch of Space Shuttle Atlantis on
Friday, Sept. 8 because of a problem associated with one of the
spacecraft's electricity-producing fuel cells. Shuttle program
managers at NASA's Kennedy Space Center decided Wednesday afternoon
additional time was needed to evaluate fuel cell flight history and
potential causes of the malfunction.
Mission managers will hold another meeting Thursday at 1 p.m. EDT to
assess the issue. There will be a news conference on NASA Television
at the conclusion of that meeting. If the team decides to "go" for
launch Friday, lift-off would be at 11:41 a.m. EDT.
Tuesday night as ground teams were preparing for Atlantis' scheduled
launch Wednesday, a voltage spike in the motor of Atlantis' fuel cell
#1 coolant pump was observed during the activation of the shuttle's
three fuel cells. The coolant pump flows Freon through the fuel cell
to prevent it from overheating during flights.
During Atlantis' mission, STS-115, astronauts will deliver and install
a girder-like structure, known as the P3/P4 truss, aboard the
station. The 35,000-pound piece includes a set of giant solar arrays,
batteries and associated electronics. The arrays eventually will
double the station's power capability.
Atlantis' crew, Commander Brent Jett, Pilot Chris Ferguson and mission
specialists Dan Burbank, Heide Stefanyshyn-Piper, Joe Tanner and
Steve MacLean, a Canadian Space Agency astronaut, will remain at
Kennedy Space Center while the fuel cell evaluation continues.
For the latest information about the STS-115 mission and its crew and
more information about space shuttle fuel cells, visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/shuttle
-end-
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#296 by triddirt on 07 Sep, 2006 05:17
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c.steven - 6/9/2006 10:47 PM
I think I read where Wayne said fuel cell 1 continues to operate properly at the time of the press briefing. Are the fuel cells all running now, and does this have much impact on the PDRS load? My guess is they aren't carrying the full power load at this point, but simply running in some type of idle mode. Doesn't most orbiter power come from ground sources until the final couple of minutes in the count? Anybody got an answer?
Seemed to me that Ed Mango in the Post MMT briefing said that after the restart troubleshooting the fuel cells remained on and providing performance data during Wednesday and Thursday.. Maybe Mark can confirm.. But that was how I understood it. -
#297 by Chris Bergin on 07 Sep, 2006 08:52
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Ok, let's move to a new thread for today's D-Day.
