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#1380 by mwvp on 04 Jan, 2017 21:04
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...
2nd phase will be 4 systems to EmDrive DIYers we all know. When that is settled down and working well, it is time to engage the 3rd phase non EmDrive builders as a additional verification of my 1st phase data and those of the 4 x 2nd phase verifiers.
I (tried) to PM you about testing. And I'm interested in calculating dynamic, Doppler-acceleration forces from a model, based on a 1d line of a few dozen points, representing RLC values of radial cross sections along the Z axis. Especially would like values representing the top and bottom.
These could be extracted from a Meep/MPD or perhaps FEKO. But if your spreadsheet calculates them from discrete cross sections, that may be enough. -
#1381 by sanman on 04 Jan, 2017 22:50
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I have also been working on refining the so-called "parabolic geometry." I think it has great potential.
Hey Monomorphic, do you intend to ever build that paraboloid cavity-thruster thing? If so, then how? Anybody know what would be the best way to fabricate something like that?
Would be interesting to see how its test results compare against the standard frustum thing. -
#1382 by ThinkerX on 05 Jan, 2017 00:08
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Quote
Hey Monomorphic, do you intend to ever build that paraboloid cavity-thruster thing? If so, then how? Anybody know what would be the best way to fabricate something like that?
Would be interesting to see how its test results compare against the standard frustum thing.
Somebody posted a pic of an ordinary stainless steel salad bowl a few weeks back that supposedly met most of the geometric requirements. Recommended having the interior silvered. I was deluged by adds for cookware for days afterwards. -
#1383 by otlski on 05 Jan, 2017 00:40
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Guys,
I'm willing to fund the cost of the tooling to get the KISS thruster parts spun, skim machined, electropolished and gold flashed. Plus I'm willing to ship, to those that ask nicely and are in the 1st 12 repliers, a complete thruster system, including ALL the electronics, including the Arduino based freq tracker, so NO laptop required. All at my cost.
With the testers approval, their names will be posted.
All I ask of you is to build the rotary torsion balance (all you will need to buy is the white laminex 1.2m x 0.2m x 0.012m bookshelf) and post on NSF and Reddit your test results, positive or negative.
OK?
Why?
Because it is time to get our asses off this rock by causing a propulsion revolution.
I'm sure some very smart folks, after all this happens, will figure out how to make 1g crewed ships that can lift off from Earth and land on Pluto in 16 days. Mars is just a 3 day journey. 5 days if on the other side of the sun.
Any takers?
BTW the only Qu value that matters is the time it takes for a forward power pulse to increase from zero to 63.2% of the final value and sorry to say but that is not what many equations and simulations predicts. It is time to get real world and move away from failed simulations and onto actual experimental data.
Those that are doing cavity experiments, please move away from S11 or S21 methods to calculate the Ql and move to doing real Qu by pulsing your cavities and measure directly the cavity fill time and the Qu via the 1 x TC forward power rise time.
TT, I can test one on an air bearing test apparatus rather than the torsional device. As I have mentioned before I have built many (air bearings), have ongoing access to them, and plenty of experience characterizing these bearings and performing the kinds of tests needed. Either way your offer is timely and very generous. -
#1384 by Stormbringer on 05 Jan, 2017 01:16
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Hidden sectors again; possibly yet another way to make what appears to be a closed system an open one:
http://phys.org/news/2017-01-multiple-standard-hierarchy-problem.html
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#1385 by WarpTech on 05 Jan, 2017 02:25
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I have also been working on refining the so-called "parabolic geometry." I think it has great potential.
Hey Monomorphic, do you intend to ever build that paraboloid cavity-thruster thing? If so, then how? Anybody know what would be the best way to fabricate something like that?
Would be interesting to see how its test results compare against the standard frustum thing.
3D printer and then sand casting, then polish, plating and more polish.
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#1386 by sanman on 05 Jan, 2017 03:30
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3D printer and then sand casting, then polish, plating and more polish.
How would the dish plate be attached to the paraboloid?
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#1387 by dustinthewind on 05 Jan, 2017 03:44
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I have also been working on refining the so-called "parabolic geometry." I think it has great potential.
Hey Monomorphic, do you intend to ever build that paraboloid cavity-thruster thing? If so, then how? Anybody know what would be the best way to fabricate something like that?
Would be interesting to see how its test results compare against the standard frustum thing.
A small section of a sphere is a good approximation of a parabola. I think they would to this with the large reflector telescopes and is why they use spherical grinding to approximate a parabola. It would mainly make for a very flat and wide cavity.
See this paper here: http://www.math.technion.ac.il/S/rl/docs/parabola.pdfQuoteThis means that a circular arc with radius R can be approximated by a parabolic aarc with focal length p/2 =R/2, or semi latus-rectum p = R (seeFigure 1).
A good approximation of a parabolic cavity then might look something like the image I attached. In fact I remember seeing a simulation of such a cavity but can't remember who posted it.
Designing one with a spherical part might be cheaper than designing a parabolic and be as good an approximation but would be rather short and not as tall as that last simulation.
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#1388 by cee on 05 Jan, 2017 04:33
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I assume all our resident microwave experts have examined and understand the function of the tuning port that was engineered into the SPR Flight Thruster as attached?
Probably a teflon tuning stub that varies the coupling , commonly used to fine frequency tune mw cavity amps. See fig 9 of attached paper as an example.
Nice common screwdriver slot in the end of the shaft plus securing nut. Wonder why the shaft seems to points at the internal mode excitation coupler / antenna?
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#1389 by xyzzy on 05 Jan, 2017 05:44
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As a side issue, what is the forum opinion on 0.25um vs 0.50um Gold flash stopping H20 molecules reaching the electropolished copper layer, through the Gold flash layer, when dealing with 0.3m^2 of internal thruster surface area?
At least on circuit boards copper is not normally gold-flashed directly. Instead a nickel layer is used in between as a barrier (NiAu is the commonly known name in the industry). The reason is that copper easily dissolves gold and forms a semi-irregular brittle intermetallic, which would make the coating basically unusable. It forms a patchy dark layer which does not take solder, has a mechanical endurance no better than a "cold" solder joint, and hell only knows what uncontrolled resistivity characteristics it has.
Same should go for resonant cavities. The gold has to be protected from inside by a nickel barrier layer. As long as this protective layer is in place and intact, the copper should have nothing to fear, at least not H2O.
As for the gold thickness, it should be of secondary importance. Thicker "hard gold" layers are needed for abrasion resistance (PCB "edge connectors") and to conserve plating material they are usually only plated selectively on the mechanically stressed contact areas rather than on the entire traces.
Inside an em-drive there should be no overwhelming need for expensive "hard gold", a basic thin plating will work.
But please take note that a thin plating is not long term abrasion-resistant against human skin. Handling such a surface repeatedly, and leaving finger oils on the surface will degrade it, and can even remove thin gold layer so far as to leave the underlying nickel bare (and I've had this happen to the outer shells of some cheap RF connectors that I was repeatedly tightening by hand).
When you assemble the cavities, avoid rubbing the surfaces with fingers and clean any fingerprints from the critical inside surfaces with cotton + circuit board cleaning fluid, without using excessive force, then remove excess liquid with a clean dry cotton cloth and let the surfaces dry completely before final assembly. Then they should last. -
#1390 by Tcarey on 05 Jan, 2017 06:54
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BTW the Laptop is gone and replaced by an Arduino based min reflected power freq tracker.
I'll be very surprised if you can get the signal generator software working on Arduino. The software is buggy and was hard enough to get working in Wondows 10.
Maybe Raspberry Pi with Windows 10 would be a better choice?
Windows 10 for the Raspberry Pi is not the desktop version. It is the IoT (Internet of Things) version so the available software apps are quite limited. See the link below for more info.
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-on-the-raspberry-pi-what-you-need-to-know/
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#1391 by demofsky on 05 Jan, 2017 07:09
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A good approximation of a parabolic cavity then might look something like the image I attached. In fact I remember seeing a simulation of such a cavity but can't remember who posted it.
The original posts for the section of sphere simulations were by X_Ray:
Designing one with a spherical part might be cheaper than designing a parabolic and be as good an approximation but would be rather short and not as tall as that last simulation.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40959.msg1607676#msg1607676
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40959.msg1607685#msg1607685 -
#1392 by OttO on 05 Jan, 2017 07:16
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Here we go. better without the Pear computer indeed. It will be better to keep the hottest parts near the axis of rotation.
Would be a good idea to put the frustum in a cardboard cylindrical "tin can" with plastic plugs to prevent air circulation and vents... -
#1393 by OttO on 05 Jan, 2017 07:18
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I have extracted fine strands of Kevlar from fiber optic cables. Might be a good material choice along with a variety of swivels, I will setup a simple test.
For people that think that it could be of use, you can buy quite cheaply some kevlar strings in an archery shop. -
#1394 by sanman on 05 Jan, 2017 07:34
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I don't mean to throw in extra buzzwords needlessly, but I'd read that graphene coatings have excellent conductive properties. Graphene is a Hyperconductor not a Superconductor, which means that while it has a non-zero resistance, this resistance amount is fixed and independent of conductor length.
Could a graphene coating on the inside of the cavity-thruster be a useful "poor man's superconductor" approach to the cavity resonance?
There's a whole lot of Do-It-Yourself stuff with graphene on Youtube:
DIY graphene by pressure cooker
DIY graphene by blender
DIY Spin-coating:
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#1395 by demofsky on 05 Jan, 2017 07:51
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More grist for the theoreticians.
Revaluation of Mbelek and Lachièze-Rey scalar tensor theory of gravitation to explain the measured forces in asymmetric resonant cavities.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1701.00454 -
#1396 by TheTraveller on 05 Jan, 2017 08:26
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More grist for the theoreticians.
Revaluation of Mbelek and Lachièze-Rey scalar tensor theory of gravitation to explain the measured forces in asymmetric resonant cavities.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1701.00454
They might try running these Flight Thruster numbers as attached. If they are interested, can provide the Flight Thruster dimensions.
They could also run Dave's 18.4mN data and my 8mN data.
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#1397 by TheTraveller on 05 Jan, 2017 08:28
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I don't mean to throw in extra buzzwords needlessly, but I'd read that graphene coatings have excellent conductive properties. Graphene is a Hyperconductor not a Superconductor, which means that while it has a non-zero resistance, this resistance amount is fixed and independent of conductor length.
Could a graphene coating on the inside of the cavity-thruster be a useful "poor man's superconductor" approach to the cavity resonance?
Need to determine the Rs at 2.45Ghz and how the Rs varies vs temp vs H field intensity, etc. Will check if there is any data. -
#1398 by flux_capacitor on 05 Jan, 2017 10:36
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Here we go. better without the Pear computer indeed. It will be better to keep the hottest parts near the axis of rotation.
Would be a good idea to put the frustum in a cardboard cylindrical "tin can" with plastic plugs to prevent air circulation and vents...
Good point. I also talked about enclosing the frustum within two transparent vented acrylic hemispheres (with an antistatic spray coating inside to prevent static charges to accumulate) but a cylindrical can could also do the job. The sphere has less resistance to drag but are more expensive.
If the frustum base plate is 280 mm in diameter, and taking into account the wall thickness and flange rim, a cylindrical can with a 12-inch diameter should be ok. There are cheap cardboard tubes primarily made for pouring concrete posts, that can be cut to the desired length. Example: 12" × 48" Sakrete tube ($14)
EDIT: Also 12" postal tubes, a little more expensive than concrete forming tubes but with plastic caps readily available.
However if the frustum BD is larger than 12" (304 mm) there is no cardboard tube available on the standard market over that size, the only option for a tube would then be an industrial custom order. Or much simpler and very cheap (and KISS!): a cubic cardboard box.
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#1399 by Mulletron on 05 Jan, 2017 11:33
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So the mass I've been looking for in order to locate a mass current for the gravitomagnetic equations...(so far effective mass of photons in resonators and waveguide, in materials, photons in a box contributing to overall mass of the box...etc) but one I hadn't considered is (to me the wiser choice now) is the center of mass of a counter-propagating two photon system.
Also apply this in the context of a partial standing wave, and the concept is definitely clicking.