Author Topic: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed  (Read 8152 times)

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« on: 10/28/2016 07:43 pm »
http://izvestia.ru/news/640024
http://tass.ru/kosmos/3742362

Izvestia and TASS report that RKTs Progress" in Samara is proposing a new lightweight version of the Soyuz-2 rocket called Soyuz-2LK. It would consist of the Soyuz-2 core stage and strap-on boosters topped by a Fregat upper stage that replaces the third stage. With a payload capacity between 2 and 3.8 tons, it would fill a gap between the Soyuz-2.1v and Soyuz-2.1a rockets. A source tells Izvestia that discussions on this Soyuz version are taking place between "leaders of space enterprises and on the level of Roskosmos". The Pilyugin Centre has been approached to study the possibility of modifying the flight control system, which is usually flown on the third stage.

Online Stan Black

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #1 on: 10/28/2016 08:09 pm »
It appears this idea has been floating around for awhile:-
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/forum13/topic7142/

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #2 on: 10/28/2016 09:04 pm »
Original information is here :

http://samspace.ru/news/press_relizy/8680/
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Offline ZachS09

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #3 on: 10/28/2016 09:24 pm »
What Fregat variant will be used on this rocket?

Fregat-M, Fregat-MT, or regular Fregat?
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Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #4 on: 10/28/2016 09:44 pm »
Original information is here :

http://samspace.ru/news/press_relizy/8680/

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32932.0

Here is where I noted that use of NK-33 in the core stage would allow use of Blok-DM as an upper stage and thus make the entire system more efficient.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #5 on: 10/28/2016 10:04 pm »
I don't think that efficiency is as important as cost. I would wonder if an RD-193 core with widened core could cover the segment. Besides, Blok-DM03 is moving to the half thrust RD-58MF which is really optimized for orbital maneuvering, not suborbital upper stage work.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #6 on: 10/29/2016 01:37 am »
Is the cost decrease really worth the development of new variants right now? I thought the current mantra as accepted here is the "1 size fit all" and the Soyuz has been doing that for some time....

It appears this idea has been floating around for awhile:-
http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/forum13/topic7142/

......but of course I have played with this concept in the Orbiter spaceflight simulator and even called it the "Vostok-3" as this is really a modern replacement of the -2M series! That tells how old the concept is.  ;)
Astronomy & spaceflight geek penguin. In a relationship w/ Space Shuttle Discovery.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #7 on: 10/29/2016 06:16 am »
AFAIK, there never has been a Soviet or Russian launcher for the 3 - 4 ton class payloads, at least since the Vostok was retired.  Dnepr could have been that launcher, but was never configured for what would be a max payload.

« Last Edit: 10/29/2016 06:17 am by Danderman »

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #8 on: 10/29/2016 07:37 am »
Original information is here :

http://samspace.ru/news/press_relizy/8680/

This RKTs Progress press release says the proposal was presented at a meeting of the Council of Chief Designers that mainly discussed plans for upcoming Soyuz launches from Vostochnyy. No decision made yet on whether the rocket will fly from Plesetsk or Vostochnyy or from both launch sites. The announced payload capacity (ranging from 2.0 to 3.85 tons to Sun-synchronous orbits) depends on the launch site and the orbit. The Soyuz-2LK concept is described as nothing more than an "engineering proposal", with work underway to prepare for the "preliminary design" phase ("eskiznyy proyekt" in Russian) and Progress looking for sources of financing. In other words, this project is still in its very early stages.

Offline hkultala

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #9 on: 10/29/2016 07:42 am »
Angara 1.2 looks like much more efficient rocket for this-size payloads.

Are Angara and Soyuz made by different companies?

And is Soyuz hardware so much cheaper than Angara hardware that this makes sense?
« Last Edit: 10/29/2016 07:43 am by hkultala »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #10 on: 10/29/2016 12:25 pm »
Angara 1.2 looks like much more efficient rocket for this-size payloads.

Are Angara and Soyuz made by different companies?

And is Soyuz hardware so much cheaper than Angara hardware that this makes sense?
Angara is made by Khrunichev, while Soyuz by RSC Progress. They are the two de facto, LV developers and manufacturers. RSC Energia wants to play there, two, and makes the Blok-D and used to be Progress and Sea Launch owner. But those two are the real rocket makers in Russia.
BTW, I believe that Soyuz is so cheap because they make more than 10 per year on factories that have been churning Soyuz for more than 50 years. But the jump to Soyuz-2.1a increased cost by 30% and 2.1b by 50% wrt -U.
Angara is still deploying its full production capability and definitive manufacturing tooling. So while currently much more expensive, I would expect it to be quite competitive in the Angara-1.2 configuration. It has a very similar design to the Soyuz-5 proposal which was Progress project to slash production costs.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #11 on: 10/29/2016 04:45 pm »
Drop zone constraints may impact the design of this system, since the core and booster stages are going to drop farther down the flight path than for existing Soyuz derivatives.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #12 on: 11/22/2016 09:20 am »
The Progress plant is saying this could be launched by 2020, although no source of funding has been disclosed.

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #13 on: 11/22/2016 10:52 am »
The Progress plant is saying this could be launched by 2020, although no source of funding has been disclosed.

Here is the TASS report on the possible 2020 launch date
http://tass.com/science/913728

Quote
MOSCOW, November 21. /TASS/. Russia’s new light carrier rocket Soyuz-2LK may be ready for launch already in 2020, if financing begins in the imminent future to develop it, CEO of Progress Rocket and Space Center Alexander Kirilin told TASS on Monday.

Progress Rocket and Space Center presented the project of a new two-stage modification of the Soyuz-2 carrier rocket in late October. "We’ll be able to develop and manufacture ground-based equipment and also carry out the carrier rocket’s ground experimental work within three or three and a half years. Therefore, the launch of the first carrier rocket Soyuz-2LK may take place in three or three and a half years after the start of financing," the Progress CEO said.

Prospects

Both state and commercial customers should finance the carrier rocket’s development, he said. "Currently, work is underway to look for and agree the sources of financing," Kirilin said.

The head of Progress Rocket and Space Center did not rule out that international partners might participate in the rocket’s development and the Soyuz-2LK might be launched not only from Russian spaceports but also from the French Kourou space center that is the place for launching domestic Soyuz-ST spacecraft.

"We’re open for any cooperation with our French partners and we’ll offer the Soyuz-2LK carrier rocket on the world market," the head of Progress Rocket and Space Center said.

However, the Progress CEO said he doubted that the French company Arianespace would get interested in the Russian light rocket as the European light-class carrier rocket Vega was available. He said, however, that big prospects were emerging for the new light rocket Soyuz-2LK on the market of space launch services due to the growing trend for the development and launch of small space vehicles.

"The light carrier rocket Soyuz-2LK is designed to deliver a wide range of satellites of the respective category. These can include various space vehicles for the Earth’s remote sensing, meteorological and other satellites. There is a certain market of such space vehicles and, correspondingly, the need for their orbiting," Kirilin said.
The cost of the launch of a new carrier rocket will be considerably less than that of its basic version Soyuz-2, he said.

"According to preliminary estimates, the Soyuz-2LK may be cheaper than the basic rocket by about 25-40%," Kirilin said.

New carrier rocket

The Soyuz-2LK is a new carrier rocket developed on the initiative of Progress Rocket and Space Center. The spacecraft features two first stages of the Soyuz-2 carrier rocket with a Fregat booster installed as the third stage. The new carrier rocket can lift from 2 to 3.85 tons to a sun-synchronous orbit, depending on the spaceport, from which it is launched.

"Currently, an engineering note on this carrier rocket has been released to give basic technical solutions and characteristics of this new carrier," Kirilin said.

According to the head of Progress Rocket and Space Center, the replacement of the third stage of Soyuz-2 rockets with the Fregat booster will help increase the economic efficiency of launches in the concurrent delivery of several small satellites into orbit as the new acceleration unit has the engine’s multiple switch-on function.

"The acceleration unit has to be multiply switched on to orbit many satellites and in the case of launching a small space vehicle or several small space vehicles, it is more efficient to use the Fregat booster instead of the third stage of the Soyuz-2 carrier rocket," Kirilin said.

The multiple switch function allows implementing various schemes of orbiting space vehicles, including a grouped launch of satellites into one or several various orbits with their delivery to the orbit’s different points whereas a rocket stage that lacks this function can bring them only to one point of the orbit.

Other Soyuz rockets

While the new rocket is similar to the Soyuz-2.1v carrier by its characteristics, the head of Progress Rocket and Space Center believes they will compete with each other.

"The Soyuz-2LK carrier rocket is today at the initial stage of its development. Correspondingly, there can be no talk in the coming years about its rivalry with the Soyuz-2.1v carrier rocket. The number of space vehicles that can be launched by a light-class carrier rocket exceeds considerably the frequency of Soyuz-2.1v carrier rocket launches," he noted.

The new rocket is not the first proposal of Progress Rocket and Space Center to use its accumulated potential for developing new rocketry. The most renowned of them are the projects of the Soyuz-2.3 rocket with the enhanced lifting capacity and the Soyuz-5 rocket firing liquefied natural gas. According to Kirilin, the works on the Soyuz-2.3 have been stopped and the enterprise is looking for investors to continue developing the Soyuz-5 rocket.
"We’re carrying out work to create the Soyuz-5 carrier rocket and a concept design has been released. In addition to the concept design, work is underway to look for and agree possible financing sources," the head of Progress Rocket and Space Center said.



Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #14 on: 11/22/2016 04:44 pm »
How can the Soyuz third stage cost 25%~40% of the rocket launch? I'm assuming that they are comparing to a Soyuz-2.1a/Fregat (25% cheaper) and Soyuz-2.1b/Fregat (40% cheaper).

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #15 on: 11/22/2016 06:09 pm »
How can the Soyuz third stage cost 25%~40% of the rocket launch? I'm assuming that they are comparing to a Soyuz-2.1a/Fregat (25% cheaper) and Soyuz-2.1b/Fregat (40% cheaper).
I would think so otherwise someone has screwed up their math.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #16 on: 11/22/2016 06:24 pm »
How can the Soyuz third stage cost 25%~40% of the rocket launch? I'm assuming that they are comparing to a Soyuz-2.1a/Fregat (25% cheaper) and Soyuz-2.1b/Fregat (40% cheaper).
I would think so otherwise someone has screwed up their math.
Still, in most modern LV, the core stage is 60%~75% of cost. Here you have five lower stages. It's siblings have 7 stages. How taking one, and not a big one, can save so much money. Does KBKhA really charges so much for the RD-0110? Or may be they are moving all the avionics to the Fregat and thus saving on that, too?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #17 on: 12/02/2016 02:52 pm »
With a spate of recent failures of the Blok I third stage, this particular variant is looking more attractive.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #18 on: 12/09/2016 02:55 pm »
I believe that my proposal for a light Soyuz variant with a Soyuz 2-1V core (ie with the NK-33) and a Block-DM derived upper stage could orbit 2 Glonass satellites rather than 1, as currently performed by Soyuz, which might result in some economies.


Offline Danderman

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Re: Soyuz-2LK rocket proposed
« Reply #19 on: 12/17/2016 03:06 pm »

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