Author Topic: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?  (Read 14317 times)

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #40 on: 09/29/2016 02:10 pm »
"We" don't need to do anything other than going to work for Spacex.    If it is going to happen, it will be because Spacex will continue to be a healthy company and make money to support this endeavor (along with a few real investors).

That helps, but that limits the amount of help to whatever SpaceX the company can absorb, and that is limited by the amount of money SpaceX has available.  That would make this a SpaceX-only affair, which I think would be limiting.

Quote
Kickstarting is going to be a drop in the bucket.

Yes, but I think Musk was using Kickstarter as a metaphor for crowdfunding.  Think of a modern version of how the Statue of Liberty was funded and that would be closer to what he is shooting for.

Quote
Buying swag?  Swag is suppose to be given out free.  If somebody wants me to advertise for them, they pay me or give me the item for free.

There is that, but there methods of free advertising where a user advertises for free, or even using their own money.  For instance, "viral" marketing is you or I going out of our way to promote something.

Personally though I think there will need to be a number of entities actively using their own resources to do fundraising, and that someone or some organization will need to create some sort of non-profit or public benefit organization to be the focal point for the fundraising.  That would also separate SpaceX from the colonization part, which is good since SpaceX only plans on being the transportation provider, not the colonization specialist.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Online FinalFrontier

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #41 on: 09/29/2016 02:15 pm »
You can start be seeking reform of the Space Treaty. And by convincing your elected officials (for those of us in the USA), to better consider what NASA spend's its money on in the near future. SLS is becoming increasingly less necessary given there are now two major companies seeking to produce equivalent HLV's for much lower cost, two of which also already have the IMHO, hardest part built: the main engines.

Technically three if you consider ULA's new family of launch vehicle's is supposed to be much more easily and readily scale-able in the event additional lift is needed. The way I see it if money spent on SLS were instead split between a contract for one of these vehicle's and payloads (deep space modules surface hardware ect) it would be much easier to get Mars development going, and sooner.

For those of you who watch our space policy section and have been paying attention to Congress lately, they are very much of a different opinion. Increasingly it seems like the people who will be setting the law in the near future are interested in reviving a copy of CXP and have no interest in commercial space or see it as an Obama product which makes it toxic. That mindset is very dangerous and needs to be changed, and only the people in constituency can make these guys change.
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Offline Prober

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #42 on: 09/29/2016 02:26 pm »
What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?


Step one: Separate Elon's Mars dream

from reality?

Step Two: focus, and fix the financial bubbles, ie the reality.  Then build from a solid foundation.

Research the financial bubbles....Google Mark Cuban apps bubble
   "            "      "                "         People rename fails, Google dot com boom 


No Bucks ....No Buck Rogers :o
   
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #43 on: 09/29/2016 02:30 pm »
Mars Flight Lotteries.

    $5 USD for a one-way trip and $25 USD  for a round trip.

     Knowing the space geeks out there, as well as the extreme sports fanatics, (skiing on the Martian Ice Caps, climbing Olympus Mons, exploring the Vallis Marinaris, spelunking the Martian lava tubes, etc.) one could EASILY raise billions of dollars per lottery, especially if it were made an international thing.
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Offline Bynaus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #44 on: 09/29/2016 02:35 pm »

Theoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point).


And it will have no value in those quantities.  It is no longer rare

Sure - but I would still take it as a very special thank you gift! Even though they would not be strictly "rare", you would still be one of very few humans in the world to own a piece of Mars. The "perks" you get from Kickstarter & Co. are also not necessarily worth much, and people still want them.
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Offline Bynaus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #45 on: 09/29/2016 02:39 pm »
"We" don't need to do anything other than going to work for Spacex.    If it is going to happen, it will be because Spacex will continue to be a healthy company and make money to support this endeavor (along with a few real investors).  Kickstarting is going to be a drop in the bucket.  Buying swag?  Swag is suppose to be given out free.  If somebody wants me to advertise for them, they pay me or give me the item for free.

This is a good point - which I forgot in my last "summary" post above, sorry! - but not everybody has the right skills to work for SpaceX, or the right passport (ITAR). Furthermore, the ITS's problem is probably not lack of skill or workforce, but lack of funding. So those who do not already contribute to the success of ITS by working on it, might find other ways to contribute and help - and this is what this thread is about.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 02:40 pm by Bynaus »
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Offline jpo234

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #46 on: 09/29/2016 03:28 pm »
How much would the media rights for this be worth? Globally? Surely more than the Olympics...
NBC paid more than $1.275 billion for each of the next 6 olympic games for the US alone.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline savuporo

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #47 on: 09/29/2016 03:42 pm »
This is a good point - which I forgot in my last "summary" post above, sorry! - but not everybody has the right skills to work for SpaceX, or the right passport (ITAR). Furthermore, the ITS's problem is probably not lack of skill or workforce, but lack of funding.
If you everyone would work for free for them, they wouldn't need any funding ;)

More seriously, you don't need to work for SpaceX to make a contribution. Working for any space business, either telecom services or earth observation, or more directly satellite manufacturing will make a contribution. Space industry is growing 4% year on year. It needs to grow a whole lot faster for these grand visions to happen.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 03:44 pm by savuporo »
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Online Kansan52

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #48 on: 09/29/2016 03:47 pm »
Might be a better political tactic to campaign for a general increase to the NASA budget than to try to shift SLS (CXP jr) to a different track. Rerouting SLS money might be seen as an attack.

This A.M. the report was the Japanese Olympics will cost them $30 billion after the $40 billion that China spent and the $50 billion Russia spent.  Mars Olympics?

Offline jpo234

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #49 on: 09/29/2016 04:28 pm »
Might be a better political tactic to campaign for a general increase to the NASA budget than to try to shift SLS (CXP jr) to a different track. Rerouting SLS money might be seen as an attack.

This A.M. the report was the Japanese Olympics will cost them $30 billion after the $40 billion that China spent and the $50 billion Russia spent.  Mars Olympics?

With a world GDP of 73 trillion $ (US 18 trillion $), Mars is not even a rounding error.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Patchouli

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #50 on: 09/29/2016 05:32 pm »

Yes, but I think Musk was using Kickstarter as a metaphor for crowdfunding.  Think of a modern version of how the Statue of Liberty was funded and that would be closer to what he is shooting for.


Musk might be doing what Von Braun did in the 1950s to sell the idea of going to the moon.



ITS kinda reminds me of the Von Braun Ferry rocket and what will actually fly may look very different.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 05:40 pm by Patchouli »

Offline CraigLieb

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #51 on: 09/29/2016 05:50 pm »

In comparison to so many expenditures for our government for example:

SLS expenditures and authorized funds exceed 17 Billion.

Military budgets are outrageous ...
A typical Aircraft Carrier today:
" Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012
New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA"

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew

Companies could decide to fund it out of profits for a share of the resulting economy:
 
Apple Computer:
Net Income $ 53,394 (in Millions) so that 53.394 Billion in Income.

Google:
Net Income 16.348 Billion

Even if the investment happened over a period of years, it is doable.

and like so many have mentioned, one of us might form the next google or Apple and become that investor or one of them too!

On the ground floor of the National Space Foundation... Colonize Mars!

Offline fthomassy

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #52 on: 09/29/2016 06:00 pm »
In answer to the original post there are ways to get involved creating ITS customers.  Here's one
http://newworlds2016.space/
gyatm . . . Fern

Offline Hotblack Desiato

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #53 on: 09/29/2016 09:39 pm »
Mars Flight Lotteries.

    $5 USD for a one-way trip and $25 USD  for a round trip.

     Knowing the space geeks out there, as well as the extreme sports fanatics, (skiing on the Martian Ice Caps, climbing Olympus Mons, exploring the Vallis Marinaris, spelunking the Martian lava tubes, etc.) one could EASILY raise billions of dollars per lottery, especially if it were made an international thing.

Just if I can take my Kneissl White Star with me (I have both, old straight ski (2m) and new racing carvers(1,92m)).


Online ZachF

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #54 on: 09/29/2016 10:41 pm »
How about a space lottery/raffle?


say $20 dollars to buy a ticket gives you a chance to win a trip to Mars (which is transferable). Every time a certain # of tickets is sold a number/winner is drawn.... could also have some cash prizes and SpaceX swag prizes.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 10:43 pm by ZachF »
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Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #55 on: 09/29/2016 10:59 pm »

Military budgets are outrageous ...
A typical Aircraft Carrier today:
" Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012
New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA"

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew


Don't need a colony but need a military

Offline D_Dom

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #56 on: 09/30/2016 12:23 am »

Just if I can take my Kneissl White Star with me (I have both, old straight ski (2m) and new racing carvers(1,92m)).


 Carve Mars!
Space is not merely a matter of life or death, it is considerably more important than that!

Offline Ludus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #57 on: 09/30/2016 05:11 am »
Pick-up Amazon as a sponsor :o or offer them as a provider for "home delivery" on Mars... ;)

I think Amazon's management have another preferred provider for deliveries to Mars.  8)

Offline DJPledger

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #58 on: 09/30/2016 08:06 am »
Lobby NASA to get SLS cancelled and then use funds to fund ITS dev.

Online FinalFrontier

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #59 on: 09/30/2016 08:21 am »

In comparison to so many expenditures for our government for example:

SLS expenditures and authorized funds exceed 17 Billion.

Military budgets are outrageous ...
A typical Aircraft Carrier today:
" Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012
New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA"

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew

Companies could decide to fund it out of profits for a share of the resulting economy:
 
Apple Computer:
Net Income $ 53,394 (in Millions) so that 53.394 Billion in Income.

Google:
Net Income 16.348 Billion

Even if the investment happened over a period of years, it is doable.

and like so many have mentioned, one of us might form the next google or Apple and become that investor or one of them too!

Can't cut the military or do away with it unless you like being invaded and taken over by the other two massive civilization's on earth that are just aching for the chance to be top dog. You lose control over your culture you no longer get to decide freely whether to go to Mars or not or how it's done, someone else does that for you if at all. The other two superpower's on this planet are not free countries, all past and present fear mongering aside these are facts. They are authoritarian oligarchies and the people in them live a managed life, the amount of control over their own fate which they have is severely limited. 

Underlying paradox: each major superpower must remain defensive against each other as long as each other superpower wants to kill each other.

You would need world peace, decades of it, before you could start serious military reductions, and more likely you would simply do away with sovereign militarys in favor of a global military of some kind (see Heinlein Space Cadet for detailed example).


As for the computing world: you REALLY don't want to go cutting that. SpaceX and almost everything else you are seeing occurring the realm of technological and exploration development is being driven at its base, by vastly improved computing and virtual resources. The fact that you can create endless virtual worlds with endless possible conditions to test a piece of hardware in before you build a single piece of it is having impacts you cannot possibly fathom. That is not to say some of these companies could not fork over investments into space development, in fact some already have. And more money, and more companies are expected to do so in the future. Given appreciable results that is. You cannot just throw money away.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2016 08:25 am by FinalFrontier »
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