Author Topic: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?  (Read 14303 times)

Offline Bynaus

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Hi all,

I have never started a thread before, but I think this might be an important enough topic to break with that habit. Also, if any of the mods think this is the wrong place for discussing this, please move the thread to a better place.

Like probably many of you, I have seen Elon's speech yesterday and was blown away by the audacity of his plan. I think it was brilliant and completely crazy at the same time. One reason why it can be concieved it as crazy today (and perhaps as visionary tomorrow) is the lack of a funding plan. No, stealing underpants will not get us to Mars.

But what will?

If you say "nothing" to this and the title question, so be it. But what if you are wrong?

If we take Elon by his word, and say, 10 billions over 10 years are necessary to make this a reality - can a group of clever people work together and create a value of 10 billions or more over the course of 10 years? Certainly! Think, for example, Snapchat - founded only 5 years ago, it has a value of 19 billions today (I know its not exactly that easy, but you get the general idea). Of course, whatever could finance the Mars mission doesn't have to be a fancy community app. Could it be a trust? A "Mars bank" where people can deposit a part of their savings to be invested for the benefit of the Mars program? (of course, the first trap to avoid would be the one of the dodgy company...)

So I am thinking - is there any way that could get us from here, today, to a world where a group of enthusiastic tech-entrepreneurs donate most of their newly-gained wealth - as they said they would from the beginning - to finance the first manned mission to Mars?

What can WE do? What could YOU do?
More of my thoughts: www.final-frontier.ch (in German)

Offline Steve D

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #1 on: 09/28/2016 06:06 pm »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.

Offline DanielW

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #2 on: 09/28/2016 06:28 pm »
I think you need to solve two parts. Cash generation and cash dispersal. The first being the hard part of course. But if such cash existed it would be nice to have some guarantees. I think the COTS program would be a good model. But who would administer it?

Offline RoboGoofers

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #3 on: 09/28/2016 06:34 pm »
once they have specs for their cargo units, you can start designing things that can break down to fit inside them. How about a bulldozer/grader that'll fit inside a phone booth and run off LIon?

Another thought is, would they really sell seats to individuals, at first? Or would they rather charter flights to groups? I imagine 'clubs' that recruit members and do all the vetting and training. judging by some of the question askers at the presentation, there's people i wouldn't want to share a ship or colony with, and I'd like to know that before I was stuck with them for maybe the rest of my life. So forming a Colonist club could be fun, for now, and more serious later.

finally, start saving $$$!
« Last Edit: 09/28/2016 06:35 pm by RoboGoofers »

Offline Oli

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #4 on: 09/28/2016 06:35 pm »
Musk said it will be a public-private partnership, so you can try to convince the public.

The downside of having a "billionaire class" investing in rocketry, is that 50% of Americans have not seen a significant wage increase in 40 years. Those Americans are not going to vote for Mars colonies, they're going to vote for fixing potholes.

Offline Noise

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #5 on: 09/28/2016 06:39 pm »
The Mars Society and/or The Planetary Society come to mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can achieve results. Establishing a consortium of some sort to advocate for the ICT plan might be the way forward.

Offline Ireadtheinstructionslove

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #6 on: 09/28/2016 06:48 pm »
I Bank on Mars. Considering that most of the world's money is stored in computers, and moved around by computers, perhaps  a  computer on 2018 Red Dragon that can use the DSN, to facilitate deposits and withdrawals.

Offline jpo234

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #7 on: 09/28/2016 06:56 pm »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.
Are the current reservation numbers for the Model 3 online? Would be interesting to see whether there is a sudden jump.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Online sanman

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #8 on: 09/28/2016 07:08 pm »
- Steal Underpants
- Kickstarter

More seriously, the idea of forming private co-operative groups to commit to booking seats on future flights, and perhaps in training their members in the types of skillsets that would be needed/useful for Mars colonists.

I don't know why Musk blew off that gal who asked about what training would be needed. Fine, even if somehow very little training/skills are required to be a passenger on the BFS, there's still a helluva lot of training/skills that are going to be necessary for actually living on Mars and bootstrapping a colony.
« Last Edit: 09/28/2016 11:47 pm by sanman »

Offline Elvis in Space

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #9 on: 09/28/2016 07:19 pm »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.
Are the current reservation numbers for the Model 3 online? Would be interesting to see whether there is a sudden jump.

Had the same thought. Went ahead and made my Model 3 reservation. I was going to wait but it's going to be a while anyway and a new supercharger opened nearby not long ago.
Cheeseburgers on Mars!

Offline TomH

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #10 on: 09/28/2016 07:20 pm »
I have wondered if it is possible for them to establish a tax exempt endowment. Universities have them, but universities are supposedly "non-profit" (cough-Ahem) organizations. Perhaps if the endowment were limited only to scientific R&D and not directly to commercial for-profit aspects like F9, it could be thus structured. I am attaching the disclaimer that I am no tax attorney and have no idea whatsoever if such a thing is feasible.

My own experience in watching family members inherit money from other family members is that the beneficiary often does not have an appreciation for all the hard work that went into earning the money. Usually I see the inherited money quickly squandered. My wife and I have accumulated a comfortable nest egg, and our daughter, who has done very well in university, is set to garner a higher income than we. I have always believed she would appreciate more things she earned on her own than things gifted easily and freely from us as her parents.

If such an endowment existed at SpaceX, I surely would consider bequeathing a considerable portion of my estate to that fund.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #11 on: 09/28/2016 07:24 pm »
Argue for a international race to Mars  ;)

The moment nations view it as some kind of "national security" imperative to win, they'll go nuts! (original space race)

They'll first try to hardball it like Apollo/Saturn did (and barely pulled off!). But the commercial side has a clearer path to success and won't break the bank.

Then they'll try to exploit it through cronyism, and the funds will get stolen and nothing will happen.

They'll fall behind and do deals for small portions. And try to use international deals to drive up costs and slow down the program, attempting to risk its failure due to nonsense.

But because the commercial side has gotten its fangs in, it'll get driven to completion.

Offline Ludus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #12 on: 09/28/2016 07:25 pm »
Hi all,

I have never started a thread before, but I think this might be an important enough topic to break with that habit. Also, if any of the mods think this is the wrong place for discussing this, please move the thread to a better place.

Like probably many of you, I have seen Elon's speech yesterday and was blown away by the audacity of his plan. I think it was brilliant and completely crazy at the same time. One reason why it can be concieved it as crazy today (and perhaps as visionary tomorrow) is the lack of a funding plan. No, stealing underpants will not get us to Mars.

But what will?

If you say "nothing" to this and the title question, so be it. But what if you are wrong?

If we take Elon by his word, and say, 10 billions over 10 years are necessary to make this a reality - can a group of clever people work together and create a value of 10 billions or more over the course of 10 years? Certainly! Think, for example, Snapchat - founded only 5 years ago, it has a value of 19 billions today (I know its not exactly that easy, but you get the general idea). Of course, whatever could finance the Mars mission doesn't have to be a fancy community app. Could it be a trust? A "Mars bank" where people can deposit a part of their savings to be invested for the benefit of the Mars program? (of course, the first trap to avoid would be the one of the dodgy company...)

So I am thinking - is there any way that could get us from here, today, to a world where a group of enthusiastic tech-entrepreneurs donate most of their newly-gained wealth - as they said they would from the beginning - to finance the first manned mission to Mars?

What can WE do? What could YOU do?

People on NSF are much more knowledgeable about the this sort of proposal and better able to promote and defend it than most people online. One of the most important things that we can can do is keep doing what we do already but venture outside our normal online environment as well. Go on social media or to website comments you normally wouldn't. Engage with people on the issue.

This is a long struggle over public perceptions and attitudes. People who want to do more could start blogs linked to social media and start building contacts. There will have to be new advocacy organizations.

Offline Ludus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #13 on: 09/28/2016 07:40 pm »
I have wondered if it is possible for them to establish a tax exempt endowment. Universities have them, but universities are supposedly "non-profit" (cough-Ahem) organizations. Perhaps if the endowment were limited only to scientific R&D and not directly to commercial for-profit aspects like F9, it could be thus structured. I am attaching the disclaimer that I am no tax attorney and have no idea whatsoever if such a thing is feasible.

My own experience in watching family members inherit money from other family members is that the beneficiary often does not have an appreciation for all the hard work that went into earning the money. Usually I see the inherited money quickly squandered. My wife and I have accumulated a comfortable nest egg, and our daughter, who has done very well in university, is set to garner a higher income than we. I have always believed she would appreciate more things she earned on her own than things gifted easily and freely from us as her parents.

If such an endowment existed at SpaceX, I surely would consider bequeathing a considerable portion of my estate to that fund.

Thoughts? Opinions?

A tax exempt charitable 501c3 organization could definitely accept tax deductible gifts toward Mars settlement as a cause. A 527 organization could engage in political action but donations would not be tax deductible. SpaceX itself can't control such an organization, it's a for profit corporation.

There are existing Space organizations that are 501c3s but not AFAIK specific to Elon Musks plan.

It's an interesting idea to have a thread about what organizations are out there supporting SpaceX plan and the issue of donating and fund raising for them. You may want to consider participating in founding a new 501c3 if you want to donate a substantial amount. Or you might create a family foundation that doesn't generally accept outside donations but donates to other groups in this area. If you're interested you should talk to a lawyer specializing in this.

You can definitely construct a way to donate your estate to this cause that's tax efficient and satisfies you that your money will go to support what you want.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #14 on: 09/28/2016 09:19 pm »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.

Also in that vain get several Powerwall tm unis for your house along with a SolarRoof tm from Tesla Energy and Solar City.

Offline cebri

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #15 on: 09/28/2016 09:31 pm »
Well, ITS video has already been seen by 2 M people, if all viewers donate about 500$ we got the money.  :P

Kickstarting this thing is not a bad idea, i've recently read that Sony (yeah the huge japanese electronic company) use kickstarter to fund niche products which would not be profitable otherwise.

StarCitizen has got more than 100M this way, SpaceX could beat that, and it could be a kickstarter with a 10yr deadline.


Offline knowles2

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #16 on: 09/29/2016 12:33 am »
Become a billionaire and then offer to invest in Space X Mars Missions.

Offline philw1776

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #17 on: 09/29/2016 12:35 am »
Over on FB, a retired engineer has proposed organizing a $1/year internship for retired engineers wanting to help out @ SX.
"It'll bang right out!"

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #18 on: 09/29/2016 12:41 am »
Tell him why AMOS-6 mysteriously exploded so he can get back to earning money...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline philw1776

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #19 on: 09/29/2016 01:03 am »
Tell him why AMOS-6 mysteriously exploded so he can get back to earning money...

Thread Winner!  :)
"It'll bang right out!"

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #20 on: 09/29/2016 03:28 am »
The Mars Society and/or The Planetary Society come to mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can achieve results. Establishing a consortium of some sort to advocate for the ICT plan might be the way forward.

Funny, The Mars Society and The Planetary Society come to my mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can fail to achieve anything of substance.

Offline sdsds

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #21 on: 09/29/2016 05:12 am »
Practice using social media effectively. "Like" stuff. "Follow" someone. "Share" your enthusiasm.

(For those in the advanced class: "Boost" something.)
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 05:13 am by sdsds »
-- sdsds --

Offline savuporo

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #22 on: 09/29/2016 05:39 am »
What can WE do? What could YOU do?
Apply for and land a job in one of the companies working towards that end. There is no greater capital than human capital, and no greater contribution than solving some of the hard problems.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Online sanman

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #23 on: 09/29/2016 08:02 am »
Funny, The Mars Society and The Planetary Society come to my mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can fail to achieve anything of substance.

Yeah, but to be fair, they were formed in a time before dreamer nerds got super-rich. If Arthur C Clarke or Robert Heinlein had achieved Warren Buffett's wealth, then maybe we could at least seen attempts at stuff like this. If Howard Hughes had been born 20 years later and ended up as more of a space enthusiast, then we could have seen more attempts at stuff like this.

All these societies have gone down the path of promoting discussion and trying to influence public policy, but nobody's had the means or the temperament to be another Cecil Rhodes.

And of course technology has reached a threshold level to make the barriers surmountable.

Online Lars-J

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #24 on: 09/29/2016 08:04 am »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.

Bingo. If you have the $$$, that's the most direct way to do it.   :)
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 08:05 am by Lars-J »

Offline Bynaus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #25 on: 09/29/2016 08:33 am »
Trying to summarize. So far, we have:

Buy a Tesla. That certainly helps, as Tesla serves as the "bank" which Elon might one day sell his shares in to finance the Mars plan. However, Tesla is also taking huge risks, so your indirect investment into ITS is as safe as that company might be (I ordered a Model 3 earlier this year, so I am ready to accept the risks). If it goes bankrupt, so goes the Mars financing plan - and your well-meant contribution to it. That has to be kept in mind.

Convince the public. I don't think this is going to work very well. For many people, even people interested in technology, Musk's proposal is plain simply crazy. As long as they don't see a BFR take off (at least!), they will not believe the Mars colony is actually happening. This is a long way off and on the other side of the financing round that will be needed to get the whole thing started.

Some kind of "bank", foundation or trust. I could see this working. Think about it like that: if there really is, as Elon speculates, a million people in the world who would eventually be ready to pay 200'000 $ for a flight to Mars - could there a million people in the world willing to pay 10'000 $ to develop the initial capability? Or 10 million people ready to pay 1'000 $? A 100 million to pay 100 $? Any scenario would get us there. Perhaps some kind of fundraising website, a "10 year kickstarter" (without kickstarter) as cebri said, independent from SpaceX, perhaps in a form so that all donations are tax-deductible.

Get rich and donate. Sure. Who wouldn't want that, and if I have a good idea, I might try. An so should everybody else. But perhaps - and this is one of the motivations for this thread - the community could be more powerful at reaching such a goal collaboratively (like the trust idea above - there might be other ideas) than individually?

Like, Follow, be a missionary for Mars, etc. That is likely to be a necessary but by no means sufficient effort.
More of my thoughts: www.final-frontier.ch (in German)

Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #26 on: 09/29/2016 09:19 am »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D
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Offline KelvinZero

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #27 on: 09/29/2016 10:14 am »
Support politicians who support commercial crew. Try to get your workmates a bit angry about the politicians funding SLS, legislating the specifications (expensive), the companies (shuttle derived), with payload and mission very obviously not a priority at all.

Offline hektor

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #28 on: 09/29/2016 12:44 pm »
Gather 100 people in a building of size comparable to the crew cabin of the ITS and stay there for 115 days ? With a maximum hype ?

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #29 on: 09/29/2016 12:53 pm »
Pick-up Amazon as a sponsor :o or offer them as a provider for "home delivery" on Mars... ;)
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Offline francesco nicoli

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #30 on: 09/29/2016 12:59 pm »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D

well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones.
I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors.

But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #31 on: 09/29/2016 01:01 pm »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D

well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones.
I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors.

But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........

There will have been many other flights before that will have returned mars material long before the first ITS flight.   

Offline francesco nicoli

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #32 on: 09/29/2016 01:05 pm »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D

well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones.
I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors.

But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........

There will have been many other flights before that will have returned mars material long before the first ITS flight.   

fair enough. But if you mean SpaceX flights, then the "prize" logic still works. However, the unitary value of rocks from previous flights is likely too high for rewarding a kickstarter, just because of relative scarcity at that point in time.

Offline Bynaus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #33 on: 09/29/2016 01:06 pm »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D

well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones.
I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors.

But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........

There will have been many other flights before that will have returned mars material long before the first ITS flight.   

Not so sure about that. And even if, that material will 1) be stored away, 2) be distributed in tiny amounts to researchers world-wide and 3) used in museum exhibits. It will also be very limited, a few kg at most.

Theoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point).

I think its a good idea to help with the overall appeal of donating to such a foundation.
More of my thoughts: www.final-frontier.ch (in German)

Offline TaurusLittrow

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #34 on: 09/29/2016 01:08 pm »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.

Seriously. EM said he was accumulating wealth for the purpose funding his Mars vision. Alternatively, buy Tesla stock and hold...OK maybe with a stop-loss order just in case ;)

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #35 on: 09/29/2016 01:11 pm »
"We" don't need to do anything other than going to work for Spacex.    If it is going to happen, it will be because Spacex will continue to be a healthy company and make money to support this endeavor (along with a few real investors).  Kickstarting is going to be a drop in the bucket.  Buying swag?  Swag is suppose to be given out free.  If somebody wants me to advertise for them, they pay me or give me the item for free.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 01:11 pm by Jim »

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #36 on: 09/29/2016 01:13 pm »

Theoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point).


And it will have no value in those quantities.  It is no longer rare

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #37 on: 09/29/2016 01:36 pm »
The reference to Mars Sample returns prior to the first ITS flight got me curious. So it seems that the NASA  lander in 2020 will cost $2bn, and that it will be the first of three missions spread over multiple years that will combine to bring a small sample back to Earth, probably by the mid 2020's at the earliest, I would guess.

Let's guestimate the overall cost for a small sample return at $5bn then. That's half of the entire development costs for the ITS, which could bring back all the samples that Nasa could possibly desire, in addition to achieving so much else.

So $5bn dollars for a few kg's returned to Earth, vs. $10bn for a fully reusable ITS.


Offline Navier–Stokes

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #38 on: 09/29/2016 01:41 pm »
What about a bond issue from SpaceX to support Mars colonization? It could be along the lines of SolarCity's solar bonds except longer term and lower interest.

Offline Krevsin

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #39 on: 09/29/2016 01:44 pm »
Easy, mail Elon a 10 billion cheque through the mail.  ;D
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 01:45 pm by Krevsin »

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #40 on: 09/29/2016 02:10 pm »
"We" don't need to do anything other than going to work for Spacex.    If it is going to happen, it will be because Spacex will continue to be a healthy company and make money to support this endeavor (along with a few real investors).

That helps, but that limits the amount of help to whatever SpaceX the company can absorb, and that is limited by the amount of money SpaceX has available.  That would make this a SpaceX-only affair, which I think would be limiting.

Quote
Kickstarting is going to be a drop in the bucket.

Yes, but I think Musk was using Kickstarter as a metaphor for crowdfunding.  Think of a modern version of how the Statue of Liberty was funded and that would be closer to what he is shooting for.

Quote
Buying swag?  Swag is suppose to be given out free.  If somebody wants me to advertise for them, they pay me or give me the item for free.

There is that, but there methods of free advertising where a user advertises for free, or even using their own money.  For instance, "viral" marketing is you or I going out of our way to promote something.

Personally though I think there will need to be a number of entities actively using their own resources to do fundraising, and that someone or some organization will need to create some sort of non-profit or public benefit organization to be the focal point for the fundraising.  That would also separate SpaceX from the colonization part, which is good since SpaceX only plans on being the transportation provider, not the colonization specialist.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Online FinalFrontier

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #41 on: 09/29/2016 02:15 pm »
You can start be seeking reform of the Space Treaty. And by convincing your elected officials (for those of us in the USA), to better consider what NASA spend's its money on in the near future. SLS is becoming increasingly less necessary given there are now two major companies seeking to produce equivalent HLV's for much lower cost, two of which also already have the IMHO, hardest part built: the main engines.

Technically three if you consider ULA's new family of launch vehicle's is supposed to be much more easily and readily scale-able in the event additional lift is needed. The way I see it if money spent on SLS were instead split between a contract for one of these vehicle's and payloads (deep space modules surface hardware ect) it would be much easier to get Mars development going, and sooner.

For those of you who watch our space policy section and have been paying attention to Congress lately, they are very much of a different opinion. Increasingly it seems like the people who will be setting the law in the near future are interested in reviving a copy of CXP and have no interest in commercial space or see it as an Obama product which makes it toxic. That mindset is very dangerous and needs to be changed, and only the people in constituency can make these guys change.
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Offline Prober

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #42 on: 09/29/2016 02:26 pm »
What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?


Step one: Separate Elon's Mars dream

from reality?

Step Two: focus, and fix the financial bubbles, ie the reality.  Then build from a solid foundation.

Research the financial bubbles....Google Mark Cuban apps bubble
   "            "      "                "         People rename fails, Google dot com boom 


No Bucks ....No Buck Rogers :o
   
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #43 on: 09/29/2016 02:30 pm »
Mars Flight Lotteries.

    $5 USD for a one-way trip and $25 USD  for a round trip.

     Knowing the space geeks out there, as well as the extreme sports fanatics, (skiing on the Martian Ice Caps, climbing Olympus Mons, exploring the Vallis Marinaris, spelunking the Martian lava tubes, etc.) one could EASILY raise billions of dollars per lottery, especially if it were made an international thing.
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Offline Bynaus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #44 on: 09/29/2016 02:35 pm »

Theoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point).


And it will have no value in those quantities.  It is no longer rare

Sure - but I would still take it as a very special thank you gift! Even though they would not be strictly "rare", you would still be one of very few humans in the world to own a piece of Mars. The "perks" you get from Kickstarter & Co. are also not necessarily worth much, and people still want them.
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Offline Bynaus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #45 on: 09/29/2016 02:39 pm »
"We" don't need to do anything other than going to work for Spacex.    If it is going to happen, it will be because Spacex will continue to be a healthy company and make money to support this endeavor (along with a few real investors).  Kickstarting is going to be a drop in the bucket.  Buying swag?  Swag is suppose to be given out free.  If somebody wants me to advertise for them, they pay me or give me the item for free.

This is a good point - which I forgot in my last "summary" post above, sorry! - but not everybody has the right skills to work for SpaceX, or the right passport (ITAR). Furthermore, the ITS's problem is probably not lack of skill or workforce, but lack of funding. So those who do not already contribute to the success of ITS by working on it, might find other ways to contribute and help - and this is what this thread is about.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 02:40 pm by Bynaus »
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Offline jpo234

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #46 on: 09/29/2016 03:28 pm »
How much would the media rights for this be worth? Globally? Surely more than the Olympics...
NBC paid more than $1.275 billion for each of the next 6 olympic games for the US alone.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline savuporo

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #47 on: 09/29/2016 03:42 pm »
This is a good point - which I forgot in my last "summary" post above, sorry! - but not everybody has the right skills to work for SpaceX, or the right passport (ITAR). Furthermore, the ITS's problem is probably not lack of skill or workforce, but lack of funding.
If you everyone would work for free for them, they wouldn't need any funding ;)

More seriously, you don't need to work for SpaceX to make a contribution. Working for any space business, either telecom services or earth observation, or more directly satellite manufacturing will make a contribution. Space industry is growing 4% year on year. It needs to grow a whole lot faster for these grand visions to happen.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 03:44 pm by savuporo »
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline Kansan52

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #48 on: 09/29/2016 03:47 pm »
Might be a better political tactic to campaign for a general increase to the NASA budget than to try to shift SLS (CXP jr) to a different track. Rerouting SLS money might be seen as an attack.

This A.M. the report was the Japanese Olympics will cost them $30 billion after the $40 billion that China spent and the $50 billion Russia spent.  Mars Olympics?

Offline jpo234

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #49 on: 09/29/2016 04:28 pm »
Might be a better political tactic to campaign for a general increase to the NASA budget than to try to shift SLS (CXP jr) to a different track. Rerouting SLS money might be seen as an attack.

This A.M. the report was the Japanese Olympics will cost them $30 billion after the $40 billion that China spent and the $50 billion Russia spent.  Mars Olympics?

With a world GDP of 73 trillion $ (US 18 trillion $), Mars is not even a rounding error.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Patchouli

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #50 on: 09/29/2016 05:32 pm »

Yes, but I think Musk was using Kickstarter as a metaphor for crowdfunding.  Think of a modern version of how the Statue of Liberty was funded and that would be closer to what he is shooting for.


Musk might be doing what Von Braun did in the 1950s to sell the idea of going to the moon.



ITS kinda reminds me of the Von Braun Ferry rocket and what will actually fly may look very different.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 05:40 pm by Patchouli »

Offline CraigLieb

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #51 on: 09/29/2016 05:50 pm »

In comparison to so many expenditures for our government for example:

SLS expenditures and authorized funds exceed 17 Billion.

Military budgets are outrageous ...
A typical Aircraft Carrier today:
" Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 – 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012
New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA"

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew

Companies could decide to fund it out of profits for a share of the resulting economy:
 
Apple Computer:
Net Income $ 53,394 (in Millions) so that 53.394 Billion in Income.

Google:
Net Income 16.348 Billion

Even if the investment happened over a period of years, it is doable.

and like so many have mentioned, one of us might form the next google or Apple and become that investor or one of them too!

On the ground floor of the National Space Foundation... Colonize Mars!

Offline fthomassy

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #52 on: 09/29/2016 06:00 pm »
In answer to the original post there are ways to get involved creating ITS customers.  Here's one
http://newworlds2016.space/
gyatm . . . Fern

Offline Hotblack Desiato

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #53 on: 09/29/2016 09:39 pm »
Mars Flight Lotteries.

    $5 USD for a one-way trip and $25 USD  for a round trip.

     Knowing the space geeks out there, as well as the extreme sports fanatics, (skiing on the Martian Ice Caps, climbing Olympus Mons, exploring the Vallis Marinaris, spelunking the Martian lava tubes, etc.) one could EASILY raise billions of dollars per lottery, especially if it were made an international thing.

Just if I can take my Kneissl White Star with me (I have both, old straight ski (2m) and new racing carvers(1,92m)).


Offline ZachF

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #54 on: 09/29/2016 10:41 pm »
How about a space lottery/raffle?


say $20 dollars to buy a ticket gives you a chance to win a trip to Mars (which is transferable). Every time a certain # of tickets is sold a number/winner is drawn.... could also have some cash prizes and SpaceX swag prizes.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 10:43 pm by ZachF »
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Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #55 on: 09/29/2016 10:59 pm »

Military budgets are outrageous ...
A typical Aircraft Carrier today:
" Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 – 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012
New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA"

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew


Don't need a colony but need a military

Offline D_Dom

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #56 on: 09/30/2016 12:23 am »

Just if I can take my Kneissl White Star with me (I have both, old straight ski (2m) and new racing carvers(1,92m)).


 Carve Mars!
Space is not merely a matter of life or death, it is considerably more important than that!

Offline Ludus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #57 on: 09/30/2016 05:11 am »
Pick-up Amazon as a sponsor :o or offer them as a provider for "home delivery" on Mars... ;)

I think Amazon's management have another preferred provider for deliveries to Mars.  8)

Offline DJPledger

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #58 on: 09/30/2016 08:06 am »
Lobby NASA to get SLS cancelled and then use funds to fund ITS dev.

Online FinalFrontier

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #59 on: 09/30/2016 08:21 am »

In comparison to so many expenditures for our government for example:

SLS expenditures and authorized funds exceed 17 Billion.

Military budgets are outrageous ...
A typical Aircraft Carrier today:
" Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 – 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012
New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA"

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew

Companies could decide to fund it out of profits for a share of the resulting economy:
 
Apple Computer:
Net Income $ 53,394 (in Millions) so that 53.394 Billion in Income.

Google:
Net Income 16.348 Billion

Even if the investment happened over a period of years, it is doable.

and like so many have mentioned, one of us might form the next google or Apple and become that investor or one of them too!

Can't cut the military or do away with it unless you like being invaded and taken over by the other two massive civilization's on earth that are just aching for the chance to be top dog. You lose control over your culture you no longer get to decide freely whether to go to Mars or not or how it's done, someone else does that for you if at all. The other two superpower's on this planet are not free countries, all past and present fear mongering aside these are facts. They are authoritarian oligarchies and the people in them live a managed life, the amount of control over their own fate which they have is severely limited. 

Underlying paradox: each major superpower must remain defensive against each other as long as each other superpower wants to kill each other.

You would need world peace, decades of it, before you could start serious military reductions, and more likely you would simply do away with sovereign militarys in favor of a global military of some kind (see Heinlein Space Cadet for detailed example).


As for the computing world: you REALLY don't want to go cutting that. SpaceX and almost everything else you are seeing occurring the realm of technological and exploration development is being driven at its base, by vastly improved computing and virtual resources. The fact that you can create endless virtual worlds with endless possible conditions to test a piece of hardware in before you build a single piece of it is having impacts you cannot possibly fathom. That is not to say some of these companies could not fork over investments into space development, in fact some already have. And more money, and more companies are expected to do so in the future. Given appreciable results that is. You cannot just throw money away.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2016 08:25 am by FinalFrontier »
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Offline Dante80

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #60 on: 09/30/2016 08:58 am »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.
Are the current reservation numbers for the Model 3 online? Would be interesting to see whether there is a sudden jump.

Tesla lost 5 dollars from the stock price immediately after Musk made the presentation.

Which should be a given, most financial inverstors care about their bottom line, not audacious, extremely expensive and imporbable plans.

...which is a reason that Musk doesn't want to make SpaceX public btw..
« Last Edit: 09/30/2016 08:59 am by Dante80 »

Offline francesco nicoli

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #61 on: 09/30/2016 10:15 am »

Theoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point).


And it will have no value in those quantities.  It is no longer rare

you are not taking it because it's valuable. You are willing to donate, so you are not doing it for a profit. however, getting something back, even if only symbolic, makes a big difference from the donor's standpoint.

Sure, kickstarter doesn't sobstitute for actual funding. It simply complements it.

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #62 on: 09/30/2016 12:58 pm »
Lobby NASA to get SLS cancelled and then use funds to fund ITS dev.

NASA has no need for ITS

Online tyrred

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #63 on: 09/30/2016 01:02 pm »
Partnership with SpaceX and the best video game developers on the planet.

Create the most realistic and ambitious Mars solar system colonization simulation ever - featuring all of the components existing/in development/in planning/hypothesized in the Falcon Heavy/Red Dragon/ICT architecture.

Realistic orbital mechanics a la Children of a Dead Earth + Sims-level social interaction (for the long voyages and those cold, dark nights on Mars) + PlanetBase-esque on steroids colonization logistics + KSP-level kabloomy goodness.... Am I missing something?  Bueler?

Point is, a FUN and imaginative way for working-class people who cannot now afford a ticket on ICT or a Tesla to imagine the real possibility of this endeavor and become EXCITED about taking part in it...  By paying for a video game that ends in the colonization of other worlds the way THEY imagine!

Total revenues for the video game industry in the U.S. hit $23.5 billion last year according to Fortune...

Can't afford a Tesla.... But I would pay $$$$ for this. So would others.

How can it fail?

*not a developer

Offline CraigLieb

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #64 on: 09/30/2016 01:04 pm »

Military budgets are outrageous ...
A typical Aircraft Carrier today:
" Our newest aircraft carrier requires a smaller crew but still takes big bucks to build. Its total cost, including personnel, is $26.8 billion. Now under construction, the Gerald R. Ford-class carrier is due to enter service in 2015 with a crew of 4,660 – 500 fewer than older carriers thanks to technology improvements.Nov 4, 2012
New Aircraft Carriers Less Crew More Cost - Face the Facts USA"

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/New-Aircraft-Carrier-Does-More-with-Less-Crew


Don't need a colony but need a military

In deference, and with the utmost respect to Jim, I wasn't saying we need to not have a military, only that budgeting for a $10 Billion project is quite doable if priorities were perceived as high. It is viable commercially and or via a shared government stake. The highway system was originally considered a defense project. So too can a rocket that can deliver "payloads" in 25 minutes anywhere on the planet.
On the ground floor of the National Space Foundation... Colonize Mars!

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #65 on: 09/30/2016 01:17 pm »

In deference, and with the utmost respect to Jim, I wasn't saying we need to not have a military, only that budgeting for a $10 Billion project is quite doable if priorities were perceived as high. It is viable commercially and or via a shared government stake. The highway system was originally considered a defense project. So too can a rocket that can deliver "payloads" in 25 minutes anywhere on the planet.

the government has no need for such a project

Offline FishInferno

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #66 on: 09/30/2016 01:18 pm »
Don't forget, SpaceX will start launching internet sats in the near future... I wouldn't mind getting a subscription to SpaceNet(TM)
Comparing SpaceX and SLS is like comparing paying people to plant fruit trees with merely digging holes and filling them.  - Robotbeat

Offline CraigLieb

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #67 on: 09/30/2016 01:19 pm »
... That is not to say some of these companies could not fork over investments into space development, in fact some already have....

Exactly this was my point! Companies can choose to invest and have deep enough pockets to do so possibly in exchange for a stake, exclusive rights or sponsorship potential.

Google, Apple, Microsoft, or possibly NBC/Universal (NBC/Solar System?)  ;)
On the ground floor of the National Space Foundation... Colonize Mars!

Offline dchill

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #68 on: 09/30/2016 01:33 pm »
Also in that vain get several Powerwall tm units for your house along with a SolarRoof tm from Tesla Energy and Solar City.

If the best profit margin for Powerwall units is selling them to underwater drug-running submarine makers (they don't waste the sales staff time asking lots of questions), then you can support the Mars effort just by buying drugs.  :-\

Offline JamesH65

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #69 on: 09/30/2016 02:09 pm »

In deference, and with the utmost respect to Jim, I wasn't saying we need to not have a military, only that budgeting for a $10 Billion project is quite doable if priorities were perceived as high. It is viable commercially and or via a shared government stake. The highway system was originally considered a defense project. So too can a rocket that can deliver "payloads" in 25 minutes anywhere on the planet.

the government has no need for such a project

By the same criteria, it also has no 'need' for SLS, or any research project, that doesn't, apparently, have military benefits.

In the same way, the human population has no need for a new iPhone, or a new series of Game of Thrones, or a better mouse trap.

Sometimes, you just have to do something because you can.

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #70 on: 09/30/2016 02:20 pm »

By the same criteria, it also has no 'need' for SLS, or any research project, that doesn't, apparently, have military benefits.

In the same way, the human population has no need for a new iPhone, or a new series of Game of Thrones, or a better mouse trap.

Sometimes, you just have to do something because you can.

No, not on order of this

SLS produces jobs and votes. 

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #71 on: 09/30/2016 02:20 pm »
... That is not to say some of these companies could not fork over investments into space development, in fact some already have....

Exactly this was my point! Companies can choose to invest and have deep enough pockets to do so possibly in exchange for a stake, exclusive rights or sponsorship potential.

Google, Apple, Microsoft, or possibly NBC/Universal (NBC/Solar System?)  ;)

There has to be an ROI

Offline DarkenedOne

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #72 on: 09/30/2016 02:41 pm »

By the same criteria, it also has no 'need' for SLS, or any research project, that doesn't, apparently, have military benefits.

In the same way, the human population has no need for a new iPhone, or a new series of Game of Thrones, or a better mouse trap.

Sometimes, you just have to do something because you can.

No, not on order of this

SLS produces jobs and votes.

Practically all government expenditure produce jobs and votes.  Tax cuts also produce jobs and votes.  It is a fallacy that government programs like SLS produce jobs.  If that money was not spent on SLS it is not like that money would disappear.  It would simply go into something else and produce jobs there.   

The question is where is the money best spent. 

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #73 on: 09/30/2016 02:50 pm »


Practically all government expenditure produce jobs and votes.  Tax cuts also produce jobs and votes.  It is a fallacy that government programs like SLS produce jobs.

It produces jobs and votes in key states.  I am just stating reality.  I do not support SLS. 

   

The question is where is the money best spent. 

Where the most votes are
« Last Edit: 09/30/2016 02:51 pm by Jim »

Offline Donosauro

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #74 on: 09/30/2016 03:27 pm »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.

A little too light on cash to entertain that possibility? Then, how about an Elon Musk Bobblehead phone dock, at only $69.95? https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/elon-musk-bobblehead-phone-dock.73932/

Offline RonM

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #75 on: 09/30/2016 04:24 pm »


Practically all government expenditure produce jobs and votes.  Tax cuts also produce jobs and votes.  It is a fallacy that government programs like SLS produce jobs.

It produces jobs and votes in key states.  I am just stating reality.  I do not support SLS. 

   

The question is where is the money best spent. 

Where the most votes are

If Elon wants to make his dream a reality, he should start playing the political game. It wouldn't hurt to put a factory on the Alabama coast and setup engineers in Huntsville.

SpaceX will assemble ITS at KSC, so he's got Florida covered.

Offline sdsds

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #76 on: 09/30/2016 05:52 pm »
There are some mundane little technical details that underlie Elon's big vision. Deeply cryogenic propellant transfer, for example. NASA could -- and probably should -- fund the advancement of that kind of technology. And probably has.

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/home/roadmaps/index.html

The level at which OCT presents the ideas in those roadmaps make them approachable even for non-technical readers.

As for what you can do? Next time someone is loudly bragging about how BIG their SLS rocket will be, quietly ask them, "Can it do propellant transfer of any sort?"
-- sdsds --

Online sanman

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #77 on: 09/30/2016 06:08 pm »
The likelihood of the US govt or any govt stepping in to pursue Mars colonization started by private efforts would depend on how successful and useful the private efforts are, how useful they show Mars to be, and whether rival govts are seen to be stepping in. While the US govt may have started the internet, its cyber-security efforts were primarily directed at protecting its own assets, while private operators were left to take care of themselves, turning to the private sector for solutions. But eventually the US govt and other govts have become involved in policing or investigating malicious cyber-attacks. If Mars colonization takes off, and there are rivalries and disputes, then it increases the odds of govts stepping in.

Offline Fan Boi

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #78 on: 09/30/2016 07:01 pm »
Some thoughts/ideas:

. Remember that this is an interplanetary transport. Maybe a bit too much focus on just Mars so far, more selling of the potential versatility.
. SpaceX issued credit card? I would sign up and use it. PayPal experience might pay off with this one too.
. Kickstarter is a great idea.
. Pre-sell tickets like Virgin did, but make good on it!
. Volunteer at SpaceX?
. Hold a raffle? Tickets should be expensive, like $100 or more. Winner gets two free tickets to Mars!
. Get sponsors to put their name and/or logo on the booster and/or the ship. (I keep seeing Viagra painted down the side of that monster and it makes me chuckle)
. At the supermarket checkout lanes we have those pull off scannable tags to donate $1, $3, or $5 to various things. How about a SpaceX one? I would put in $5 every time I purchase groceries.
. Ask the new PayPal owners if they would straight up donate a penny per transaction to the cause, for old-time sake and possibly the future of humanity.
. Get one of the various fuel companies to supply the methane for free, maybe for a logo on the side.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2016 08:01 pm by Fan Boi »

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #79 on: 09/30/2016 07:58 pm »
Some thoughts/ideas:

. Remember that this is an interplanetary transport. Maybe a bit too much focus on just Mars so far, more selling of the potential versatility.
. SpaceX issued credit card? I would sign up and use it. PayPal experience might pay off with this one too.
. Kickstarter is a great idea.
. Pre-sell tickets like Virgin did, but make good on it!
. Volunteer at SpaceX?
. Hold a raffle? Tickets should be expensive, like $100 or more. Winner gets two free tickets to Mars!
. Get sponsors to put their name and/or logo on the booster and/or the ship. (I keep seeing Viagra painted down the side of that monster and it makes me chuckle)
. At the supermarket checkout lanes we have those pull off scannable tags to donate $1, $3, or $5 to various things. How about a SpaceX one? I would put in $5 every time I purchase groceries.
. Ask the new PayPal owners if they would straight up donate a penny per transaction to the cause, for old-time sake and possibly the future of humanity.

The rest of the US would rather spend their money more wisely on other things. 

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #80 on: 09/30/2016 07:59 pm »

If Elon wants to make his dream a reality, he should start playing the political game. It wouldn't hurt to put a factory on the Alabama coast and setup engineers in Huntsville.

SpaceX will assemble ITS at KSC, so he's got Florida covered.

He doesn't employ enough of the right people

Offline Fan Boi

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #81 on: 09/30/2016 08:02 pm »
Some thoughts/ideas:

. Remember that this is an interplanetary transport. Maybe a bit too much focus on just Mars so far, more selling of the potential versatility.
. SpaceX issued credit card? I would sign up and use it. PayPal experience might pay off with this one too.
. Kickstarter is a great idea.
. Pre-sell tickets like Virgin did, but make good on it!
. Volunteer at SpaceX?
. Hold a raffle? Tickets should be expensive, like $100 or more. Winner gets two free tickets to Mars!
. Get sponsors to put their name and/or logo on the booster and/or the ship. (I keep seeing Viagra painted down the side of that monster and it makes me chuckle)
. At the supermarket checkout lanes we have those pull off scannable tags to donate $1, $3, or $5 to various things. How about a SpaceX one? I would put in $5 every time I purchase groceries.
. Ask the new PayPal owners if they would straight up donate a penny per transaction to the cause, for old-time sake and possibly the future of humanity.

The rest of the US would rather spend their money more wisely on other things.

But "wisely" is subjective, and I for one have spent money on far more wasteful things...

Offline ThereIWas3

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #82 on: 09/30/2016 08:05 pm »
Total annual income to the US cosmetics industry is six times what it would cost to do ITS.
"If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up people to collect wood and don’t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea" - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #83 on: 09/30/2016 08:11 pm »

But "wisely" is subjective, and I for one have spent money on far more wasteful things...

And the rest of the US would rather waste their money on other things.  For example, state lotteries:  if you win, you can buy a ride and still have money left over.

Offline ZachF

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #84 on: 09/30/2016 08:11 pm »
Total annual income to the US cosmetics industry is six times what it would cost to do ITS.

How many billions a year do people spend on Cigarettes? Junk Food? Gambling? Credit card debt? Botox?

The amount of money the US spends on objectively stupid/wasteful things is probably larger than the GDPs than all but the largest nations....
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Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #85 on: 09/30/2016 08:18 pm »
Total annual income to the US cosmetics industry is six times what it would cost to do ITS.

How many billions a year do people spend on Cigarettes? Junk Food? Gambling? Credit card debt? Botox?

The amount of money the US spends on objectively stupid/wasteful things is probably larger than the GDPs than all but the largest nations....

Women "need' cosmetics, they don't need ITS.  I know that is a sexist statement but I wanted to keep it short and not add all the other qualifiers.

and others "need" those things too.  It is well within their rights.  We don't need to dictate what is better for them.  The nanny state is large enough.  Like mined people on this forum are a small fraction of the population.   That is one of the reasons I don't believe the US gov't should be involved in space colonization.  It should be up to the market place and NGO's.

Offline ZachF

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #86 on: 09/30/2016 08:26 pm »
Total annual income to the US cosmetics industry is six times what it would cost to do ITS.

How many billions a year do people spend on Cigarettes? Junk Food? Gambling? Credit card debt? Botox?

The amount of money the US spends on objectively stupid/wasteful things is probably larger than the GDPs than all but the largest nations....

Women "need' cosmetics, they don't need ITS.  I know that is a sexist statement but I wanted to keep it short and not add all the other qualifiers.

and others "need" those things too.  It is well within their rights.  We don't need to dictate what is better for them.  The nanny state is large enough.  Like mined people on this forum are a small fraction of the population.   That is one of the reasons I don't believe the US gov't should be involved in space colonization.  It should be up to the market place and NGO's.

Im not talking about nannyism or forcefully taking people's money at all... just providing a context.

But hell, total Government spending is ~38% GDP here in the US (~$7 Trillion dollars). It's 45-55% in most other western nations. Space exploration is about 0.1% of GDP.
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Offline Fan Boi

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #87 on: 09/30/2016 08:27 pm »
I am feeling a renewed interest in space from the general population, just my opinion of course. I think a lot of that comes from watching rockets land on ships in the ocean and back at the launch site. Inspirational to us rocket nerds of course, but also to the general population. But I agree with Jim about people rights to spend their money how they see fit of course. I was just trying to find ideas that match this thread title...

P.S. Adding a modified ThereIWas3's sig since it seems fitting:
"If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up people to collect carbon fiber and aluminum and don’t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of space".
« Last Edit: 09/30/2016 08:31 pm by Fan Boi »

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #88 on: 09/30/2016 08:44 pm »
I think we can safely say this thread has run it's course! ;D

Locked.

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