Author Topic: Rebuilding SLC-40  (Read 274418 times)

Offline manoweb

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #400 on: 05/26/2017 05:09 PM »
edkyle99 I think the time it takes really is more a function of priorities than anything else. I think it's evident they decided to prioritize other stuff and leave the pad behind, not because it's physically impossible to repair it sooner; am I wrong on this? What I am trying to say is that they decided to leave it behind, because of a compromise given their launch backlog, cash flow, actual available resources (hiring people is a time consuming and expensive process) etc etc

Offline rsdavis9

Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #401 on: 05/26/2017 05:11 PM »
I for one am more than happy with the launch cadence instead of flashy new stuff.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
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Offline pb2000

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #402 on: 05/26/2017 05:19 PM »
Maybe they've cleaned out NASA's scrap yard, and can't find any good deals on ebay.

Musk needs a new heavy industries company to fabricate all the steel and such for rocket pads and other less exciting (boring) endeavours he might embark on.
« Last Edit: 05/26/2017 05:32 PM by pb2000 »
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Offline Lars-J

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #403 on: 05/26/2017 05:23 PM »
Maybe they've cleaned out NASA's scrap yard, and can't find any good deals on ebay.

Musk needs a new heavy industries company to fabricate all the steel and such for rocket pads and other less exciting (boreing) endeavours he might embark on.

This is the 4th pad and T/E construction effort, so I think they have enough experience by now.

Offline ThePonjaX

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #404 on: 05/26/2017 05:48 PM »
edkyle99 I think the time it takes really is more a function of priorities than anything else. I think it's evident they decided to prioritize other stuff and leave the pad behind, not because it's physically impossible to repair it sooner; am I wrong on this? What I am trying to say is that they decided to leave it behind, because of a compromise given their launch backlog, cash flow, actual available resources (hiring people is a time consuming and expensive process) etc etc

We've the confirmation of this situation ? Because until now I just read a post about someone who "can" have inside information. 

I've to say I love the "new stuff" but as several people here say the cadence at this moment is more important.

Offline DOCinCT

Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #405 on: 05/26/2017 05:48 PM »
Didn't we already know that SLC 40 was not going to be ready until "Fall" at the earliest?  Autumn in the northern hemisphere doesn't end until December 21!
I have always expected at least a one-year effort to restore the site to service. 
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Meteorological winter starts on Dec 1; autumn Sep 1.  Pick your "poison".


Online ChrisGebhardt

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #406 on: 05/26/2017 06:32 PM »
Didn't we already know that SLC 40 was not going to be ready until "Fall" at the earliest?  Autumn in the northern hemisphere doesn't end until December 21!

I have always expected at least a one-year effort to restore the site to service. 

 - Ed Kyle

No.  Latest we have is that SLC-40 is on track for August activation.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #407 on: 05/26/2017 06:35 PM »
Maybe they've cleaned out NASA's scrap yard, and can't find any good deals on ebay.

Musk needs a new heavy industries company to fabricate all the steel and such for rocket pads and other less exciting (boring) endeavours he might embark on.

Hey, rig up his boring machines to cut through nickle-iron and send them to 16 Psyche!  He'd have plenty of metal to build with then!
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Offline Mangala

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #408 on: 05/26/2017 09:05 PM »
Didn't we already know that SLC 40 was not going to be ready until "Fall" at the earliest?  Autumn in the northern hemisphere doesn't end until December 21!

I have always expected at least a one-year effort to restore the site to service. 

 - Ed Kyle

No.  Latest we have is that SLC-40 is on track for August activation.

Glad to see that Chris. My purpose was not to attack the post of this guy in the French Forum, as he was very neutral in his comment. No, what's bothered me is that others jumped, or could have jumped, very quickly in attacking SpaceX, or Elon Musk, just because!
Having good arguments about SpaceX difficulties to restore the pad is one thing, bashing SpaceX only because some hopeful communication about the time they would clear the work in SLC-40 it is like taking vantage of true difficulties to feed their despise against SpaceX and what it represents. So, finding here, or elsewhere, good arguments to counter these bashing naysayers is always better than commenting without arguments and risking to appear like some one who has some blinding faith, cult about Elon Musk or having drinking too much SpaceX kool-aid... ;)

And I tried to find the last info he made like this one, I didn't succeed, but now I'm not sure he referred, at that time, having inside info from SpaceX or rather from someone in KSC, the latter sounds now more familiar to me.
« Last Edit: 05/26/2017 09:06 PM by Mangala »

Online Herb Schaltegger

Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #409 on: 05/26/2017 09:33 PM »
Didn't we already know that SLC 40 was not going to be ready until "Fall" at the earliest?  Autumn in the northern hemisphere doesn't end until December 21!

I have always expected at least a one-year effort to restore the site to service. 

 - Ed Kyle

No.  Latest we have is that SLC-40 is on track for August activation.

But in fairness, we also had information LC-39A was "activated" several months before the first launch so ...
Ad astra per aspirin ...

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #410 on: 05/29/2017 02:26 PM »

We've the confirmation of this situation ? Because until now I just read a post about someone who "can" have inside information. 

I've to say I love the "new stuff" but as several people here say the cadence at this moment is more important.
Good point. Last time I checked the manifest SX wanted to launch 25 payloads this year.  IIRC this is possible if they can maintain a 3 week launch cadence at VAFB and a 2 week launch cadence at the Cape. They did this for 2 launches in a row but the question is can they keep it up? It also needed SLC40 to come back on line on time and of course to have no more launch mishaps causing another stand down.
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Offline rsdavis9

Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #411 on: 05/29/2017 02:54 PM »

We've the confirmation of this situation ? Because until now I just read a post about someone who "can" have inside information. 

I've to say I love the "new stuff" but as several people here say the cadence at this moment is more important.
Good point. Last time I checked the manifest SX wanted to launch 25 payloads this year.  IIRC this is possible if they can maintain a 3 week launch cadence at VAFB and a 2 week launch cadence at the Cape. They did this for 2 launches in a row but the question is can they keep it up? It also needed SLC40 to come back on line on time and of course to have no more launch mishaps causing another stand down.

I am hoping they get to at least 18 for this year. Its the guess I did at the beginning of the year.  :)
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Online oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #412 on: 05/29/2017 06:40 PM »
  Manifest excerpt  Count  LC40" "  SLC4E" "  LC39A
" "" " Interval  Launch date  Interval  Launch date  Interval  Launch date
  Dragon (CRS-11)  7  " "  " "  " "  " "  0  06/01/17
  BulgariaSat-1  8  " "  " "  " "  " "  15  06/16/17
  Intelsat 35e         9  " "  " "  " "  " "  15  07/01/17
  Iridium NEXT (Flight 2)   10  " "  " "  0  06/25/17  " "  " "
  SES-11/Echostar 105  11  " "  " "  " "  " "  15  07/16/17
  Formosat-5  12  " "  " "  21  07/16/17  " "  " "
  Koreasat 5A  13  " "  " "  " "  " "  15  07/31/17
  Iridium NEXT (Flight 3)        14  " "  " "  21  08/06/17  " "  " "
  RTLS  Dragon (CRS-12)  15  0  08/25/17  " "  " "  " "  " "
  Falcon Heavy Demo Flight  16  " "  " "  " "  " "  60  09/29/17
                  25-1 (B) B1023  RTLS
                       (B)        RTLS
  US Air Force (STP-2)  17  " "  " "  " "  " "  30  10/29/17
  SES-16/GovSat  18  45  10/09/17  " "  " "  " "  " "
  Iridium NEXT (Flight 4)  19  " "  " "  45  09/20/17  " "  " "
  PAZ  20  " "  " "  21  10/11/17  " "  " "
  SAOCOM 1A  21  " "  " "  21  11/01/17  " "  " "
  Dragon (CRS-13)  22  21  10/30/17  " "  " "  " "  " "
  SES-14 / GOLD  23  30  11/29/17  " "  " "  " "  " "
  CCTCAP In-Flgt Abrt Test  24  " "  " "  " "  " "  45  12/13/17
  Iridium NEXT (Flight 5)  25  " "  " "  30  12/01/17  " "  " "
  Bangabandhu-1     26  21  12/20/17  " "  " "  " "  " "

Edited: corrected table line up and understandability
« Last Edit: 05/30/2017 05:01 PM by oldAtlas_Eguy »

Offline AJW

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #413 on: 05/30/2017 04:30 AM »
Jim stated earlier in this thread that the TEL would be the long pole in the schedule.   Would there be any advantage to building two TELS at this time, or as the Brits say, an heir and a spare?  Could this shorten the delay in the event of another pad failure, or speed up processing if one is damaged during a launch?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #414 on: 05/30/2017 04:42 AM »
Jim stated earlier in this thread that the TEL would be the long pole in the schedule.   Would there be any advantage to building two TELS at this time, or as the Brits say, an heir and a spare?  Could this shorten the delay in the event of another pad failure, or speed up processing if one is damaged during a launch?
It wouldn't make much sense to spend time and resources building a spare when there are other, working TELs that need building or upgrading. Maybe in another year or two. Having an extra to swap in while they're working on the other one could make sense in Florida. Keep from taking a pad down every time you need to do something to a TEL.
« Last Edit: 05/30/2017 04:45 AM by Nomadd »

Online jpo234

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #415 on: 05/30/2017 12:21 PM »
Jim stated earlier in this thread that the TEL would be the long pole in the schedule.   Would there be any advantage to building two TELS at this time, or as the Brits say, an heir and a spare?  Could this shorten the delay in the event of another pad failure, or speed up processing if one is damaged during a launch?

Read what Shawn told us about the TEL construction:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=52072
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Offline bob the martian

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #416 on: 05/30/2017 04:16 PM »

We've the confirmation of this situation ? Because until now I just read a post about someone who "can" have inside information. 

I've to say I love the "new stuff" but as several people here say the cadence at this moment is more important.
Good point. Last time I checked the manifest SX wanted to launch 25 payloads this year.  IIRC this is possible if they can maintain a 3 week launch cadence at VAFB and a 2 week launch cadence at the Cape. They did this for 2 launches in a row but the question is can they keep it up? It also needed SLC40 to come back on line on time and of course to have no more launch mishaps causing another stand down.

I am hoping they get to at least 18 for this year. Its the guess I did at the beginning of the year.  :)

I'm getting the feeling that SpaceX are finally in third gear - they've been there on the manufacturing end for a while, and now they're getting there in pad operations.  In a way it's kind of a good thing they've built up this backlog, because it gives them the opportunity to establish and maintain a rapid cadence over a longish period of time, allowing them to optimize operations and lower costs even further. 

If they can make it a full year with no kabooms, then the end result will be nothing less than stunning - routine rocket launches and landings of the sort that STS promised but could never deliver.  And in a ridiculously short amount of time, all things considered. 

Offline envy887

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #417 on: 05/30/2017 04:20 PM »
Jim stated earlier in this thread that the TEL would be the long pole in the schedule.   Would there be any advantage to building two TELS at this time, or as the Brits say, an heir and a spare?  Could this shorten the delay in the event of another pad failure, or speed up processing if one is damaged during a launch?
It wouldn't make much sense to spend time and resources building a spare when there are other, working TELs that need building or upgrading. Maybe in another year or two. Having an extra to swap in while they're working on the other one could make sense in Florida. Keep from taking a pad down every time you need to do something to a TEL.

The TELs are pad-specific, so there's no greater reason to have a spare in Florida as opposed to VAFB or Boca. Except, perhaps, because the Florida pads might see higher flight rates so it's more important to keep them operating.

Offline MP99

Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #418 on: 06/04/2017 08:04 PM »
There was a NASA technical report on lox supercooling posted a while back with details on a process which is likely broadly similar to SpaceX's.  IIRC it operated at ambient pressure. SpaceX achieved greater cooling than the NASA prototype equipment did; speculation is that they are drawing a partial vacuum in order to achieve the lower temperatures.
Sorry for a bit of necro on this thread, but the NASA process put the LO2 through one LN2 bath boiling at atmospheric pressure, followed by another boiling in partial vacuum (maintained by extraction fan, IIRC).

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Offline vanoord

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Re: Rebuilding SLC-40
« Reply #419 on: 06/07/2017 11:23 AM »
Slightly newer image (May 8th).

Thanks due to Deimos Imaging, who dug this out by request  :)

https://twitter.com/deimosimaging/status/872410477489512448

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