Relativity Space: General Thread

[niwax]

Don't think stamping 16-foot diameter pieces as shown is normally done.  And if you want to stamp pieces and then weld together via friction stir welding, you might have to build quite the machine to do so.

They literally have a multi-axis laser welder of precisely the right dimensions. The largest stamping in typical mass manufacturing are 2m*2m for newer platforms that use a two-piece underbody, but that's also reasonably thick high strength steel.

[TrevorMonty]

Presenter ask intelligent questions eg will rough surface increase aerodynamics. Ans No according to Tim.
Does it add extra mass compared to traditional sheet metal? Ans +10-15%.

NB there are likely to be weight savings else where in structure from 3D print which help offset some of this extra mass. More importantly does build cost savings from 3D printing help offset lost payload mass, most likely yes. Its $ per kg to orbit that matters not LV to payload mass ratio.

I think Scott Manley is correct in that win or lose in LV market, Relativity 3D printing technology will still be successful in other industries.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

[FutureSpaceTourist]

twitter.com/relativityspace/status/1425975985573285890

Get *inside* Stargate, the world’s largest metal 3D printer, with @veritasium and @thetimellis to understand why 3D printing rockets is a great idea. Guest appearance by @DJSnM – Check it out youtu.be/kz165f1g8-E

#RelativitySpace

https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1426061290485673993

One question I would have had is how you manage the shielding gas used on the welding head, I mean it looks like a system very similar to MIG welding, which usually needs Argon.
Is it recaptured and reused?

twitter.com/relativityspace/status/1426298848578719746

Good eye @DJSnM it’s similar to MIG welding in that we use a variety of shielding gases like Argon & Helium -- no recapture tho (it mixes & dilutes in the ambient atmosphere & other metal vapors). We capture & contain the vapors from our proprietary alloys using fume extractors.

https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1426299423106109440

So is it not economical to recapture and reuse when building such large objects, or to use airtight printing cells with inert atmospheres.

[edzieba]

Having inert-gas-filled rooms dotted around (AKA warningless asphyxiation chambers) sounds like far more trouble than is worth the cost of purchasing pure process gasses.

[Spaceman_From_Italy]

Does it add extra mass compared to traditional sheet metal? Ans +10-15%.

This is not exactly accurate to his answer, he was comparing leaving the rough surface finish to smoothing it out, but he was still talking about 3D printed metal, not sheet metal

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/relativityspace/status/1428780883696181254

A few updates on #Terran1:

✅We're excited to share that Stage 2 passed cryo pressure proof + hydro mechanical buckling test on our structural test stand. Up next: S1 structural testing!

✅Terran 1’s demonstration launch is now set for early 2022 from Cape Canaveral LC-16.

Edit to add:

[JEF_300]

https://twitter.com/relativityspace/status/1428780883696181254

A few updates on #Terran1:

✅We're excited to share that Stage 2 passed cryo pressure proof + hydro mechanical buckling test on our structural test stand. Up next: S1 structural testing!

✅Terran 1’s demonstration launch is now set for early 2022 from Cape Canaveral LC-16.

Edit to add:

I'm pretty sure that music should qualify as assault. There's such a thing as too much base when you're subjecting unknowing headphone users to it.

Good to actually see progress though.

[Navier–Stokes]

[FutureSpaceTourist]

[trimeta]

It still feels a little weird to hear them talk about "we can print any geometry," and then all the shots show cylinders with ring stiffeners. That picture of Terran R's dome from a while back actually looked like it used novel shapes, but for Terran 1, that aspect of 3D printing doesn't seem to have helped them.

There still might be benefits to "we have no fixed infrastructure, we can change vehicle diameter on a whim and use the exact same machines for very different components," but Terran 1's uniqueness does not come from its geometry.

[ringsider]

Massive welding robots, AI algorithms...

It has tones of that juice company that built the most ridiculously over-engineered device to squeeze juice pulp, Juicero. Everybody drank the juicy Koolaid until somebody pointed out that all they were doing was squeezing packets of incredibly expensive juice pulp.

All Relativity is doing is making metal cylinders, very, very slowly, and very, very expensively. If they made them by bending and welding sheet metal like Astra they might already be flying and wouldn't need however many hundreds of millions they have raised so far - some of it apparently being used to buy Christian Dior belt buckles.

[edzieba]

It still feels a little weird to hear them talk about "we can print any geometry," and then all the shots show cylinders with ring stiffeners. That picture of Terran R's dome from a while back actually looked like it used novel shapes, but for Terran 1, that aspect of 3D printing doesn't seem to have helped them.

There still might be benefits to "we have no fixed infrastructure, we can change vehicle diameter on a whim and use the exact same machines for very different components," but Terran 1's uniqueness does not come from its geometry.

You print your first vehicle with a radical new geometry. It fails. Did it fail because of an issue with the print, or with the radical new geometry?
You print your first vehicle with a tried-and-tested geometry with well understood statics and dynamics. If it fails, you have an enormous head start on working your way down the failure tree. You can go for a more radical design with version 2, because you have vanishingly little sunk cost in legacy tooling that needs to be amortised over multiple launches of your test vehicle.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Check out a timelapse of our Terran R test article, a path-finding prototype to help our team better understand the structure and performance of large-scale printing. In other words, additional proof that additive manufacturing really works! And that 3D printing robotics can help us build innovative and more sustainable products, like Terran R, to help build humanity's multiplanetary future. #ThisIsTerranR #RelativitySpace

[Hug]

In regards to complicated geometry enabled by Stargate, yes Terran 1 is very conventional for the most part and it does not utilize that. But right now; their priority is getting to first launch and (maybe then) orbit; taking on the additional risk/challenges with doing the funky parts isn't worth it for now. However as they look to increase the performance of Terran 1 and gain confidence in the structures as is; they can then get into that. Tim has said as much on twitter; https://twitter.com/thetimellis/status/1276396122886430725.

As to comparing it to traditional manufacturing; yes that will give you better throughput, cost and higher material quality at high volume. But with the low volume associated with rockets, all structures being made on 1 type of machine and especially with the order of magnitude improvements in development for print speed, well that becomes a much less clear trade. With some advantages in the overall system vs the individual part; well it just might come out ahead.

Granted, getting Stargate working well has taken a significant amount of time and they probably would be in orbit by now had pursued more traditional manufacturing forms (assuming that they would have been able to raise the required money without the hypebeast investors). But then evolving into something like Terran R is harder, because you have a reset on structure production.

Now these things have yet to occur and it's perfectly reasonable to doubt the claims made. Proof is in the launch pudding and all that. Though I think i that a company pursuing the tech, especially given it's low maturity and potentially very attractive benefits is completely viable.

[trimeta]

Lockheed Martin has chosen ABL Space Systems to carry their Tipping Point cryogenic fluid management demonstration mission. Notably, when LM won this award from NASA they listed Relativity Space as the launch provider, so this is a cancellation for Relativity. Unclear if something about Relativity made LM want to move away, if LM specifically wanted to improve ABL's manifest (LM is an investor in ABL), or if LM's falling out with Momentus had knock-on effects on their choice of launch provider.

[Daniels30]

First look at faring? Stargate V4.0 will print 10x faster(10/ feet per day?).
Able to print structures in 6 days instead of 60.

[jongoff]

Lockheed Martin has chosen ABL Space Systems to carry their Tipping Point cryogenic fluid management demonstration mission. Notably, when LM won this award from NASA they listed Relativity Space as the launch provider, so this is a cancellation for Relativity. Unclear if something about Relativity made LM want to move away, if LM specifically wanted to improve ABL's manifest (LM is an investor in ABL), or if LM's falling out with Momentus had knock-on effects on their choice of launch provider.

I think Momentus had made them a sweetheart deal that they had to back out on. If I had to guess this is more about Momentus problems than Relativity problems.

~Jon

[Daniels30]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUNujV9JJRv/

A further look at the biomimicry used within the structure of Terran R.

[Navier–Stokes]

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1445805962967732226?t=nblmInWnh6sjJkNoAm-v_w

[Daniels30]

Terran 1, stage 1: Lift, cryo testing and flight pressures reached:

Nose cone print: