Relativity Space: General Thread

[Alberto-Girardi]

More akin to the blue frameworks at McGregor for S1 and S2 testing than the 'nose jail'.
It's odd that there are two identical (or near-identical) structural stands though. Unless they're expecting to pump out extreme numbers of stages in short enough order to form a queue, one stand would be sufficient.

Great point. But if they really expect to become a big rocket producer they may come to a point at which they need two stands. Maybe it is just cheaper to build two stands togheter than one today and another one two years after today.

[trimeta]

During a recent presentation on the future of launches from Vandenberg, the following slide was presented:

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1400575131978661888/photo/1

While there are some surprises here (believing that SpinLaunch is a thing, showing Electron and New Glenn launching from Vandenberg), for our purposes what's interesting is that in addition to "Relativity T1" (presumably, Terran 1), this picture shows "Relativity T2." That is very specifically T2 and not TR, which would represent the announced Terran R vehicle. The picture of this "T2" looks way too small to be the Terran R, in any event:  using pixel measurements, it's only about 25% taller than the Terran 1, and half the height of Falcon 9. That comes out to 35-44 meters tall, because the Terran 1 and Falcon 9 in this picture aren't properly to scale with each other.  Since the Terran R is supposed to have the same-ish payload capacity as 70-meter-tall Falcon 9, this "T2" probably can't be it.

Do we think this is a typo/misunderstanding, or is Relativity Space possibly working on a "Terran 2" vehicle with payload in the Soyuz/Antares/Neutron range? Those vehicles are 46.3, 40.5, and 40 meters tall (respectively), for comparison. Although, since a "Terran 2" would likely be methalox, not kerolox like the first stages of Soyuz/Antares/Neutron, maybe this direct comparison isn't helpful.

[TrevorMonty]

During a recent presentation on the future of launches from Vandenberg, the following slide was presented:

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1400575131978661888/photo/1

While there are some surprises here (believing that SpinLaunch is a thing, showing Electron and New Glenn launching from Vandenberg), for our purposes what's interesting is that in addition to "Relativity T1" (presumably, Terran 1), this picture shows "Relativity T2." That is very specifically T2 and not TR, which would represent the announced Terran R vehicle. The picture of this "T2" looks way too small to be the Terran R, in any event:  using pixel measurements, it's only about 25% taller than the Terran 1, and half the height of Falcon 9. That comes out to 35-44 meters tall, because the Terran 1 and Falcon 9 in this picture aren't properly to scale with each other.  Since the Terran R is supposed to have the same-ish payload capacity as 70-meter-tall Falcon 9, this "T2" probably can't be it.

Do we think this is a typo/misunderstanding, or is Relativity Space possibly working on a "Terran 2" vehicle with payload in the Soyuz/Antares/Neutron range? Those vehicles are 46.3, 40.5, and 40 meters tall (respectively), for comparison. Although, since a "Terran 2" would likely be methalox, not kerolox like the first stages of Soyuz/Antares/Neutron, maybe this direct comparison isn't helpful.

Old slide or pictures of old LVs. Firefly Beta is now single stick 8t LEO LV, most likely RLV if they want to compete in this market.

No sooner these small LV companies get flying than they will be moving onto larger RLVs. Do wonder if they will make the small LVs reuseable, Electron is already going down this path.


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[trimeta]

Old slide or pictures of old LVs. Firefly Beta is now single stick 8t LEO LV, most likely RLV if they want to compete in this market.

Good catch, perhaps Terran 2 was the plan originally but they've switched to Terran R, and the Terran 2 will go the way of the Falcon 5. Still, vaguely interesting insight into their original plans, even if those plans have changed.

[TrevorMonty]

Old slide or pictures of old LVs. Firefly Beta is now single stick 8t LEO LV, most likely RLV if they want to compete in this market.

Good catch, perhaps Terran 2 was the plan originally but they've switched to Terran R, and the Terran 2 will go the way of the Falcon 5. Still, vaguely interesting insight into their original plans, even if those plans have changed.

Both RL and Relativity are convince there is market demand for their larger RLVs.
Most likely  constellation owners contacting launch providers first as they need launch price plus launch rates to build their  business plans.

With 2-3 companies flying these medium RLVs, constellation owners would have reliable launch rates and competitive prices.


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[FutureSpaceTourist]

Have split off Terran R into a new thread:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54061.0

Hopefully there will be Terran 1 progress to report soon in this thread, together with any other general (non Terran R) Relativity news.

[rakaydos]

Reading over the Relativity mission statement, their approach, and such, I cant shake the feeling that their endgame is to become purveyors of the finest mars-fabricated carbon-monoxide-fueled hoppers and other vehicals.

They may need to branch into smelting to locally craft materials to feed their 3d printer processes, which will likely make them one of the largest industrial employers on mars.

[Cheapchips]

I don't think this was posted. Interview with ex CTO Jordan Noone from March last year. 

[jongoff]

If Relativity can succeed at getting Terran-1 and eventually Terran-R to flight, one thing I'll be very interested in is the potential for upper-stage derived or repurposed systems. Things like repurposing one of their upper stages as a habitat ala NanoRacks' Outpost design or Blue Origin's Blue Hab, or repurposing tanks on-orbit for propellant depots, or for upper-stage derived lunar landers and/or tankers.

In the past I had often used ULA as a starting point for such concepts, but being a smaller, more agile company (that doesn't have pesky parent companies to get in the way of fun), plus having a really really easy way to scar the stages with whatever other structures of plumbing you might need could be very interesting, if they chose to go that route. Plus, from the looks of it, the Terran-R upper stage looks like it's only a hair narrower than Centaur V, and likely bigger, and it's in a very useful size range. You wouldn't do this to a reusable Terran-R design, but given their manufacturing flexibility, it feels like Relativity would have an easier time doing purpose-built variants.

3d printing might not be amazing for low-cost mass-production, but could be very enabling for mass-customization.

~Jon

[Robotbeat]

My take is that making Terran-R fully reusable means they might be able to afford the massive cost penalty of trying to 3D print the whole rocket. And , if combined with refueling, it’ll only have to initially launch to LEO, so the higher dry mass of 3D printed tanks may be acceptable.

No one else besides SpaceX has announced plans for full reuse.

And while I’m not bullish on 3D printing to reduce costs, it can be made to work if you throw enough money and hard work at it, so 3D printing isn’t necessarily a showstopper.

Being fully reusable matters more than using a somewhat suboptimal manufacturing process.

[trimeta]

If Relativity can succeed at getting Terran-1 and eventually Terran-R to flight, one thing I'll be very interested in is the potential for upper-stage derived or repurposed systems. Things like repurposing one of their upper stages as a habitat ala NanoRacks' Outpost design or Blue Origin's Blue Hab, or repurposing tanks on-orbit for propellant depots, or for upper-stage derived lunar landers and/or tankers.

In the past I had often used ULA as a starting point for such concepts, but being a smaller, more agile company (that doesn't have pesky parent companies to get in the way of fun), plus having a really really easy way to scar the stages with whatever other structures of plumbing you might need could be very interesting, if they chose to go that route. Plus, from the looks of it, the Terran-R upper stage looks like it's only a hair narrower than Centaur V, and likely bigger, and it's in a very useful size range. You wouldn't do this to a reusable Terran-R design, but given their manufacturing flexibility, it feels like Relativity would have an easier time doing purpose-built variants.

3d printing might not be amazing for low-cost mass-production, but could be very enabling for mass-customization.

~Jon

Part of me has wondered for a while whether Relativity would be perfectly positioned to build a custom expendable third/kick stage for Starship. Sure, with refueling you really shouldn't need it, but if the options are "send a full Starship upper stage to Europa" or "send a Relativity-built kick stage to Europa," the latter is probably cheaper. And of course, it would be fairly easy to fuel this kickstage from Starship's own GSE: not completely trivial, since new pipes and connections would be needed, but it'd use the same tanks and condensers.

[jongoff]

If Relativity can succeed at getting Terran-1 and eventually Terran-R to flight, one thing I'll be very interested in is the potential for upper-stage derived or repurposed systems. Things like repurposing one of their upper stages as a habitat ala NanoRacks' Outpost design or Blue Origin's Blue Hab, or repurposing tanks on-orbit for propellant depots, or for upper-stage derived lunar landers and/or tankers.

In the past I had often used ULA as a starting point for such concepts, but being a smaller, more agile company (that doesn't have pesky parent companies to get in the way of fun), plus having a really really easy way to scar the stages with whatever other structures of plumbing you might need could be very interesting, if they chose to go that route. Plus, from the looks of it, the Terran-R upper stage looks like it's only a hair narrower than Centaur V, and likely bigger, and it's in a very useful size range. You wouldn't do this to a reusable Terran-R design, but given their manufacturing flexibility, it feels like Relativity would have an easier time doing purpose-built variants.

3d printing might not be amazing for low-cost mass-production, but could be very enabling for mass-customization.

~Jon

Part of me has wondered for a while whether Relativity would be perfectly positioned to build a custom expendable third/kick stage for Starship. Sure, with refueling you really shouldn't need it, but if the options are "send a full Starship upper stage to Europa" or "send a Relativity-built kick stage to Europa," the latter is probably cheaper. And of course, it would be fairly easy to fuel this kickstage from Starship's own GSE: not completely trivial, since new pipes and connections would be needed, but it'd use the same tanks and condensers.

In theory yes, but you could get the same result by LEO refueling of a Terran-R upper stage (either from tankers or at a Terran-R derived propellant depot). I know though, totally counting 2nd generation chickens before the first generation has even hatched.

~Jon

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Says launching Terran 1 this year

[trimeta]

Says launching Terran 1 this year

They've kept their "Q4 2021" promised launch date for quite a while now...I know everyone expects them to slip until 2022, but so far they've resisted.

From that video, any idea what the notches on the outside of the tank (visible at around 0:10 and 0:22) might be? Something to facilitate manipulating the tank within the factory and on the launch pad?

[moddedLimes]

Says launching Terran 1 this year

They've kept their "Q4 2021" promised launch date for quite a while now...I know everyone expects them to slip until 2022, but so far they've resisted.

From that video, any idea what the notches on the outside of the tank (visible at around 0:10 and 0:22) might be? Something to facilitate manipulating the tank within the factory and on the launch pad?

I was thinking it was more like for raceways for the harnessing and possibly fluids.
Other companies have that same kind of feature too and you can see that kind of structure when they have the covers off.

On the part where they are still saying Q4 2021, I'm still betting it is like ABL at the moment. They say everything is going to be ready, but then hit regulatory, license and range requirement issues (FCC, RCC-324/319, etc).

[Hug]

Here's a summary of some stuff relating to Relativity I created if anyone's curious.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RelativitySpace/comments/o2gwag/relativity_space_block_post/

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/06/relativity-to-open-a-huge-factory-that-measures-up-to-its-grand-ambitions/

Relativity to open a huge factory that measures up to its grand ambitions
"It can fit the USC Coliseum inside of it."

ERIC BERGER - 6/30/2021, 2:00 PM

Relativity Space announced on Wednesday morning plans to move into a new factory—its third new facility in three years—as the startup company continues to scale up its ambitious launch plans. The new factory, formerly a 93-acre Boeing facility that manufactured the C-17 aircraft in Long Beach, California, comes with 1 million square feet of work space.

"It can fit the USC Coliseum inside of it," Relativity CEO Tim Ellis said in an interview, referring to the iconic stadium that hosted the opening ceremonies of the 1984 Summer Olympics. "To our knowledge, it's the second-largest factory in private space, with SpaceX being number one."

[Chris Bergin]

Relativity Announces New 1M+ Sq. Ft. Factory Headquarters in Long Beach, CA

New HQ Accommodates Scaling Production for Terran R, Fully Reusable, Entirely 3D Printed Rocket

 

LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA (June 30, 2021) –  Relativity Space, the first company to 3D print an entire rocket and build the largest metal 3D printers in the world, today announced a major expansion of its operations in Long Beach with the signing of a new, 1M sq. ft. headquarters factory at Goodman Commerce Center, Long Beach.

As a 93-acre former Boeing C-17 manufacturing plant in Long Beach, the new Relativity headquarters, designed in collaboration with Gensler, is one of the largest headquarters in the private space industry. Relativity Headquarters will have capacity for 2,000+ employees, metallurgical laboratory, DMLS printers, mission control center, as well as dozens of the company’s proprietary Stargate 3D printers, the largest metal 3D printers in the world. With software changes, Relativity’s Stargate printers are capable of printing both Terran 1, the world’s first entirely 3D printed launch vehicle and its fully reusable, entirely 3D printed rocket, Terran R.

The announcement builds on the company’s continued momentum, including its reveal of Terran R, the closing of its $650M Series E fundraise, and an unprecedented year of job creation. Relativity now employs 400+ people, growing 300% within the last year, across its Long Beach, Vandenberg, Seattle, Washington D.C., Stennis, and Cape Canaveral locations. The company is on track to hire 200+ additional employees by the end of the year.

With its expansion, Relativity is doubling down on its Factory of the Future, which is centered on Stargate, the world’s largest 3D printer that the company created in-house. Through collaboration between humans and machines, Relativity’s Factory of the Future fuses 3D printing, artificial intelligence, and autonomous robotics. Disrupting 60 years of aerospace, Relativity’s radically simplified supply chain enables the company to print its rockets with 100x fewer parts in less than 60 days.

Due to its novel use of automation, Relativity’s Factory of the Future was operational during COVID-19, working safely with key Stargate operators, keeping the company on track for the launch of Terran 1 later this year. Incorporating AI-driven controls, Relativity’s Stargate 3D printers continuously optimizes production, resulting in exponentially compounded quality and time improvements, lower costs, and product designs not possible in traditional aerospace manufacturing.

“Relativity is at the forefront of an inevitable shift to software-driven manufacturing, and the opportunity to reimagine this facility for the future of aerospace is incredibly exciting,” said Tim Ellis, CEO and co-founder of Relativity. “Securing this space for Relativity Headquarters, which is now one of the largest facilities in private space, right here in Long Beach, is key for scaling out our Terran R program, while also continuing to tap into the unparalleled talent here to join us on our mission.”

As part of Long Beach City Council’s recently passed Globemaster Corridor Specific Plan, the new Relativity headquarters is part of 437 acres of coveted land west of Long Beach Airport that will be transformed into a modern business district, commencing over the coming weeks with move in planned for January 2022.

“We want to welcome Relativity Space to Space Beach, and we couldn’t be more excited to welcome their new 1M square foot headquarters to our city,” said Mayor Robert Garcia. “Relativity is a fierce and growing leader in our world’s space economy, and we’re proud they chose Long Beach as home. This new HQ will bring thousands of great, good-paying jobs to Long Beach and strengthen economic growth for the entire region.”

Goodman Group, one of the largest global industrial property groups, will be working with local stakeholders and communities to create employment opportunities, and demonstrate sustainable and innovative use of the spaces. Architecture and design firm, Gensler, will be collaborating with Relativity to completely reimagine the space.

Anthony Rozic, CEO of Goodman North America said, “The adaptive re-use of this iconic Long Beach building sees Goodman deliver our global strategy of being leaders in sustainability and providers of unique real estate solutions for our customers in rare strategic locations. We know that regeneration of existing sites will have the lowest impact on the environment. Partnering with the City of Long Beach, the site has been sustainably redeveloped removing the need for large scale demolition and new construction. In Relativity, we found the ideal partner for the space providing thousands of job opportunities for the Long Beach community. At Goodman, our purpose is ‘making space for greatness’ which I have no doubt Relativity will achieve as they expand their vertically integrated technology platform and 3D manufacturing capabilities.”

The company’s existing Long Beach facility will continue to be utilized for Terran 1 production. To learn more about Relativity Space and its multiplanetary mission, visit relativityspace.com.

About Relativity Space
Relativity is building humanity’s multiplanetary future. We invented a new approach to design, print, and fly our own rockets, starting with the world’s first entirely 3D-printed rocket, Terran 1, and Terran R, a larger, fully reusable, entirely 3D-printed launch vehicle.

As a vertically integrated technology platform, Relativity is at the forefront of an inevitable shift toward software-defined manufacturing. By fusing 3D printing, artificial intelligence, and autonomous robotics, we are pioneering the factory of the future. Disrupting 60 years of aerospace, Relativity offers a radically simplified supply chain, building a rocket with 100x fewer parts in less than 60 days.

We believe in a future where interplanetary life fundamentally expands the possibilities for human experience. Our long-term vision is to upgrade humanity’s industrial base on Earth and on Mars.
Relativity Space is backed by leading investors including Baillie Gifford, Blackrock, BOND, Coatue, Fidelity, General Catalyst, ICONIQ Capital, K5 Global, Mark Cuban, Playground Global, Social Capital, Tiger Global, Tribe Capital, Y Combinator, and 3L. For more information, please visit relativityspace.com or connect with us on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram or YouTube.

[ncb1397]

That is like twice the size of hawthorne. Over half the size of Michoud.

[loekf]

That is like twice the size of hawthorne. Over half the size of Michoud.

I hope they are successfull, but the launch market is not a very steep hockey stick in marketing slides or did I miss something ?

I am always amazed by startups who immediately invest in the biggest production facilities they can afford and then at some point run out of cash. See some EV start-ups, some initially with backing from large Chinese investors. Looks like the VCs are hungry for more space.