Author Topic: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX  (Read 73949 times)

Offline Lar

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #200 on: 03/25/2018 11:22 pm »
SpaceX are good at reuse so if they knew of this surplus item I am sure they investigated it. It may not have been newsworthy enough to get coverage but they might have even bought it? Maybe someone could check?
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Offline jabe

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #201 on: 12/09/2018 03:04 pm »
is it ok to revive this thread now with tidbit about BFR, or whatever you want to call it now, is to be made of metal?
thoughts on design change or too early?
jb


Online gongora

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #202 on: 12/09/2018 03:46 pm »
is it ok to revive this thread now with tidbit about BFR, or whatever you want to call it now, is to be made of metal?
thoughts on design change or too early?
jb

I don't understand why you'd want to discuss it in this thread instead of the BFR thread.

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #203 on: 12/09/2018 03:55 pm »
I think the booster will stay CFRP.
No synergy of TPS and tank.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
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Offline jabe

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #204 on: 12/09/2018 04:08 pm »
is it ok to revive this thread now with tidbit about BFR, or whatever you want to call it now, is to be made of metal?
thoughts on design change or too early?
jb

I don't understand why you'd want to discuss it in this thread instead of the BFR thread.
was curious ramifications of canceling a large contract..cold be lost in bfr thread..can easily move it though

Offline Jcc

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #205 on: 12/09/2018 06:42 pm »
For all we know they could still need enough carbon fiber to fulfill the contract.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #206 on: 12/10/2018 01:57 am »
It certainly helps them for F9, too, which uses a lot of carbon fiber.
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Online Slarty1080

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #207 on: 12/10/2018 10:35 am »
They will also still need a lot for the Starship / Superheavy - such as interstage and lower skirt. Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc
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Offline Jim

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #208 on: 12/10/2018 03:19 pm »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #209 on: 12/10/2018 03:42 pm »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
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Offline Hauerg

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #210 on: 12/10/2018 04:02 pm »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
Something out of the left field:
Metal may be a lot more useful for REuse/recycling once it is landed mass on an other planet.

Online Slarty1080

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #211 on: 12/10/2018 06:19 pm »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
Something out of the left field:
Metal may be a lot more useful for REuse/recycling once it is landed mass on an other planet.
But that won't be happening any time soon. There's plenty of other priorities first such as a sat launcher, dear moon, NASA/USAF/commercial missions, other tourists and a number of exploratory Mars missions where every kg will count before we start getting into the Mars base what-can-we-use-the-decks-for-on-Mars missions.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #212 on: 12/10/2018 06:28 pm »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
Metal has lower fire risk, I guess.
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #213 on: 12/10/2018 06:51 pm »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
Metal has lower fire risk, I guess.
Just stay away from magnesium alloys...
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Offline Nomadd

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #214 on: 12/10/2018 06:53 pm »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
Metal has lower fire risk, I guess.
The 787 hull takes longer to burn through than an aluminum hull. And that CFRP won't sustain burning, although subject to extreme heat, it can outgas stuff that will burn.
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #215 on: 12/10/2018 06:57 pm »
It's the resins...
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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #216 on: 12/12/2018 09:46 am »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
If they use metal for the hull, they may need interior structure compatible with expansion/contraction in contact with hull. Slip joints might not provide enough structural support.
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Online RoboGoofers

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #217 on: 12/12/2018 03:11 pm »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
If they use metal for the hull, they may need interior structure compatible with expansion/contraction in contact with hull. Slip joints might not provide enough structural support.

compatible how? the crew compartment needs to remain at human temperatures and therefore is basically immovable, not subject to expansion/contraction as far as the hull is concerned, whether carbon fiber or metal.
« Last Edit: 12/12/2018 03:12 pm by RoboGoofers »

Online ncb1397

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #218 on: 12/13/2018 05:39 am »
Also fittings inside the starship like the decks, supports etc

Maybe not
Why would carbon fibre not be a suitable material for decks and supports?
If they use metal for the hull, they may need interior structure compatible with expansion/contraction in contact with hull. Slip joints might not provide enough structural support.

compatible how? the crew compartment needs to remain at human temperatures and therefore is basically immovable, not subject to expansion/contraction as far as the hull is concerned, whether carbon fiber or metal.

Human temperatures are a 100 degree F range though. That is about half an inch of expansion over 9 meters of Aluminum. He is right that carbon fiber shrinking (assuming the fibers are circumferential around the tube) and the aluminum internal structure expanding could be a problem. It may make the structure unusually vulnerable to off nominal thermal stress. That being said, mixing composites and metal structures is of course done on Falcon 9 - at a smaller scale though, and the composite interstage did fail on the recent booster. Whether thermal stress had something to do with that? Not sure.
« Last Edit: 12/13/2018 05:41 am by ncb1397 »

Offline Lar

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Re: Toray carbon fiber wins deal with SpaceX
« Reply #219 on: 12/16/2018 06:35 pm »
Human temperatures are a 100 degree F range though. That is about half an inch of expansion over 9 meters of Aluminum. He is right that carbon fiber shrinking (assuming the fibers are circumferential around the tube) and the aluminum internal structure expanding could be a problem. It may make the structure unusually vulnerable to off nominal thermal stress. That being said, mixing composites and metal structures is of course done on Falcon 9 - at a smaller scale though, and the composite interstage did fail on the recent booster. Whether thermal stress had something to do with that? Not sure.
I would expect smacking into the ocean from many meters up,  and then being pounded by waves would have more to do with that than thermal stress.
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