Author Topic: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)  (Read 68613 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #140 on: 01/08/2019 02:53 pm »
Yeah, I literally can't think how it could be done unless someone manually enters the code into the script each time for the discussion thread on each update thread and even then such a thread may not exist, only for the usual amount of people to ignore that option as much as they do with the update only threads at present.

The sort of people who'd use it are more than capable of getting their head around "Quote" "Copy" "post with rely in the discussion thread". Those who aren't sure as heck won't use the script tab to copy their post - as listed, while some poor soul has to script each update thread to allow it.

Non-starter. Just need to drum it into people's heads that "Quote" "Copy" "Post" in the discussion thread isn't hard.
« Last Edit: 01/08/2019 02:54 pm by Chris Bergin »

Online DanseMacabre

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #141 on: 01/08/2019 03:10 pm »
Yeah, I literally can't think how it could be done unless someone manually enters the code into the script each time for the discussion thread on each update thread and even then such a thread may not exist, only for the usual amount of people to ignore that option as much as they do with the update only threads at present.

The sort of people who'd use it are more than capable of getting their head around "Quote" "Copy" "post with rely in the discussion thread". Those who aren't sure as heck won't use the script tab to copy their post - as listed, while some poor soul has to script each update thread to allow it.

Non-starter. Just need to drum it into people's heads that "Quote" "Copy" "Post" in the discussion thread isn't hard.

I actually disagree. I've been looking into plugins and SMF integration, and I think I can make a plugin to do the dirty. I'll set up a test forum and get on with it, hopefully results soon, just not space-soon!

Alternatively, however, perhaps enforce moderator rubber stamp on posts to an update thread, with an easy "send to discussion" button to simplify the moderation process.
« Last Edit: 01/08/2019 03:14 pm by DanseMacabre »

Online Chris Bergin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #142 on: 01/08/2019 03:25 pm »
Well don't waste too much time on it, as there's a 101 much more valuable things you could look into if you're entering this thread now with "I've been looking into plugins and SMF integration" as opposed to a thing for lazy people who can't read "update" in the thread title (and as such won't read "click here to post in discussion") ;D

And I can pretty much say right now Mark isn't going to add any plugins unless absolutely needed and pass the sniff test due to the horrendous battle we had making "likes" SMF mod actually work due to its original crap programming. That was, of course, actually something we needed.

Also, we don't know how long SMF has in its lifecycle. Eventually we'll probably move to a near mirror, but better software, forum like XenForo. Of course, commonality is key. No one likes major changes.

But sure, go for it, just pre-warning that I've given my opinion on it. ;)

Online DanseMacabre

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #143 on: 01/08/2019 03:34 pm »
Well don't waste too much time on it, as there's a 101 much more valuable things you could look into if you're entering this thread now with "I've been looking into plugins and SMF integration" as opposed to a thing for lazy people who can't read "update" in the thread title (and as such won't read "click here to post in discussion") ;D

And I can pretty much say right now Mark isn't going to add any plugins unless absolutely needed and pass the sniff test due to the horrendous battle we had making "likes" SMF mod actually work due to its original crap programming. That was, of course, actually something we needed.

Also, we don't know how long SMF has in its lifecycle. Eventually we'll probably move to a near mirror, but better software, forum like XenForo. Of course, commonality is key. No one likes major changes.

But sure, go for it, just pre-warning that I've given my opinion on it. ;)

Mmhm, I had noted the not-so-hotness of the current SMF version and the plugin/modification architecture.

Feel free to PM if you've any ideas for additional plugins/mods, I could use a hobby project!

Online Chris Bergin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #144 on: 01/08/2019 03:38 pm »
Awesome, will do!

Yeah, SMF is good, but they've kinda gotten lazy. Our forum is highly modded and the new server hamsters appear to be awesome, the new news site is very cool - so the next natural step would be forum architecture....albeit not for a while, but that was at the back of my mind when reading "plug ins", in addition to the battle we had with "likes". "Database error" gives me nightmares. ;D

Anyway, sure play around in a test forum. Just didn't want you to spend too much time and only for me to say "Mark says no to plug ins".

Will PM you later today, anyway.

Online Lar

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Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #145 on: 01/08/2019 03:38 pm »
Is there enough L2 membership to go to month by month bases instead of every 2?

Bottom line is it's still less than 99.9 percent of the people who will use this site today being L2 members, but that's natural as most people think sites like this are free and cost nothing to run "I'll never pay for using the internet, it's free" types - running around with their paid-for ad blocker. ;)

Per the other part, I always get worried about changing the L2 sub format, as I don't want to let anyone down who's already subscribed. It's why we don't do "Black Friday" and such, because if someone signed up and then a week later it was cheaper, that's a kick in the teeth for someone who's supporting the site.

Now one month at 9.99 wouldn't impact that, but I don't want to annoy the members who signed up at the lowest sub, two months.

If there was a large demand for it, I'd consider it, but that's the first time anyone's asked me in years, so I'm not so sure.
I think we want to encourage more L2 subscriptions, right? ... so this is a crazy idea... what if you offered a one time only one month subscription that was discounted? Idea being to get people "hooked" so they would re-up at the normal rate? Might be a headache to see who had or hadn't already used the trial offer though.
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Online Chris Bergin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #146 on: 01/08/2019 03:40 pm »
Is there enough L2 membership to go to month by month bases instead of every 2?

Bottom line is it's still less than 99.9 percent of the people who will use this site today being L2 members, but that's natural as most people think sites like this are free and cost nothing to run "I'll never pay for using the internet, it's free" types - running around with their paid-for ad blocker. ;)

Per the other part, I always get worried about changing the L2 sub format, as I don't want to let anyone down who's already subscribed. It's why we don't do "Black Friday" and such, because if someone signed up and then a week later it was cheaper, that's a kick in the teeth for someone who's supporting the site.

Now one month at 9.99 wouldn't impact that, but I don't want to annoy the members who signed up at the lowest sub, two months.

If there was a large demand for it, I'd consider it, but that's the first time anyone's asked me in years, so I'm not so sure.
I think we want to encourage more L2 subscriptions, right? ... so this is a crazy idea... what if you offered a one time only one month subscription that was discounted? Idea being to get people "hooked" so they would re-up at the normal rate? Might be a headache to see who had or hadn't already used the trial offer though.

I refer the gentleman to the answer I gave some time ago. ;)

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40878.msg1896809#msg1896809


Offline Nomadd

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Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #147 on: 01/08/2019 03:42 pm »
Is there enough L2 membership to go to month by month bases instead of every 2?

Bottom line is it's still less than 99.9 percent of the people who will use this site today being L2 members, but that's natural as most people think sites like this are free and cost nothing to run "I'll never pay for using the internet, it's free" types - running around with their paid-for ad blocker. ;)

Per the other part, I always get worried about changing the L2 sub format, as I don't want to let anyone down who's already subscribed. It's why we don't do "Black Friday" and such, because if someone signed up and then a week later it was cheaper, that's a kick in the teeth for someone who's supporting the site.

Now one month at 9.99 wouldn't impact that, but I don't want to annoy the members who signed up at the lowest sub, two months.

If there was a large demand for it, I'd consider it, but that's the first time anyone's asked me in years, so I'm not so sure.
I think we want to encourage more L2 subscriptions, right? ... so this is a crazy idea... what if you offered a one time only one month subscription that was discounted? Idea being to get people "hooked" so they would re-up at the normal rate? Might be a headache to see who had or hadn't already used the trial offer though.
That could be a problem. There are rude people, like me in the past, who would use that month to continuously download everything they could find, which is well over ten megabytes in L2, then quit.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #148 on: 01/08/2019 03:46 pm »
Is there enough L2 membership to go to month by month bases instead of every 2?

Bottom line is it's still less than 99.9 percent of the people who will use this site today being L2 members, but that's natural as most people think sites like this are free and cost nothing to run "I'll never pay for using the internet, it's free" types - running around with their paid-for ad blocker. ;)

Per the other part, I always get worried about changing the L2 sub format, as I don't want to let anyone down who's already subscribed. It's why we don't do "Black Friday" and such, because if someone signed up and then a week later it was cheaper, that's a kick in the teeth for someone who's supporting the site.

Now one month at 9.99 wouldn't impact that, but I don't want to annoy the members who signed up at the lowest sub, two months.

If there was a large demand for it, I'd consider it, but that's the first time anyone's asked me in years, so I'm not so sure.
I think we want to encourage more L2 subscriptions, right? ... so this is a crazy idea... what if you offered a one time only one month subscription that was discounted? Idea being to get people "hooked" so they would re-up at the normal rate? Might be a headache to see who had or hadn't already used the trial offer though.
That could be a problem. There are rude people, like me in the past, who would use that month to continuously download everything they could find, which is well over ten megabytes in L2, then quit.

10 megabytes? ;D

I've got a 4TB hard drive in my draw that's not even everything in L2. Also got a lot in the cloud.



My main area of concern is not to kick those who are supporting L2 in the balls. We've all been there, bought something and seen it cheaper a week later and thought "dammit!"

Offline Tywin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #149 on: 01/08/2019 05:05 pm »
I don't have problem for make a offer for months...The true, is when you see the annual membership, ...you say well is a "lot money now" in only one pay (off course not, but normally like you say the people want all free) but if you can make membership for every month and they discount to your account in paypal...like for example, the Planetary Society have this system...

For example 8$  each month...it's not to much...and it's almost the same the annual fee  ;)
« Last Edit: 01/08/2019 05:08 pm by Tywin »
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Online Chris Bergin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #150 on: 01/08/2019 05:07 pm »
I don't have problem for make a offer for months...The true, is when you see the annual membership, ...you say well is a "lot money now"in only one pay (off course not, but normally like you say the people want all free) but if you can make membership for every month and they discount to your account in paypal...like for example, the Planetary Society have...

For example 8$  each month...it's not to much...and it's almost the same the annual fee  ;)


Which is unfair on those who bought a two month sub for 19.99. It's not one year or nothing, it's two months for those who want to try it out and then the options of renewing at two months, six months (discounted), one year (discounted) or lifetime.

We won't be changing it. :)

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #151 on: 01/08/2019 05:24 pm »
Ok I have suggestion for quite some time now jeje...Why when you reply to a thread, automatically send you off this thread?

In other forum, you make a repond to one comentary, and you still are in the thread, and you can continue read and respond other comentary...

It's possible fixed that?

You should be able to change this in your forum profile - from the menu bar:

Profile > Modify Profile > Look and Layout

then tick the box next to "Return to topics after posting by default."

Offline Tywin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #152 on: 01/08/2019 05:27 pm »
Ok thank you very much...and sorry I delete my message because I think so this was not the best thread for ask that...i was going to put in this thread:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=44520.0

Ok thanks again, I am change this right now  :)
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Online Chris Bergin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #153 on: 01/13/2019 08:35 pm »
The news site now has our twitter feed running (and live updated without the need to refresh) down the right column (home page and news articles).


Offline butterwaffle

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Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #154 on: 02/14/2019 03:43 pm »
I know you've just refreshed the site recently, so perhaps this is a bad time to comment... but have you ever considered using Discourse https://www.discourse.org/ to host the forums? It has a lot of features that I think would make navigating NSF easier. It is open-source, so you can host your own server and they host a marketplace where people offer to do setup and maintenance of servers for a fee if you prefer not to.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #155 on: 02/14/2019 03:52 pm »
I know you've just refreshed the site recently, so perhaps this is a bad time to comment... but have you ever considered using Discourse https://www.discourse.org/ to host the forums? It has a lot of features that I think would make navigating NSF easier. It is open-source, so you can host your own server and they host a marketplace where people offer to do setup and maintenance of servers for a fee if you prefer not to.

We only really refreshed the news site, so that'd not a bad comment at all, as the forum is next.

There's been a number of suggestions about alternatives to SMF. I know XenForo is one as that has a good port from SMF. However, SMF is deep into beta testing of its major update, which would be ideal as it would not remove the key element of familiarity, which is so important.

Radical changes to the functionality of a forum people are used to can kill a forum, so the current focus is to use the upgraded SMF 2.1 when it's in stable release.

We are working in the background ahead of that, which is mostly focused on design, making the forum more married to the design of the news site (as the news site and forum do look like different sites right now). Talking about desktop of course, as that's the vast majority of visitors still. So functionality improvements via SMF's upgrade and design improvements via taking what we know works well on the news site. It'll look better. Function better. Allow NSF more use of the forum to enable its future. However, it will work and feel just like it does right now.
« Last Edit: 02/14/2019 03:53 pm by Chris Bergin »

Online Michael Baylor

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Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #156 on: 02/15/2019 03:50 am »
There's been a number of suggestions about alternatives to SMF. I know XenForo is one as that has a good port from SMF. However, SMF is deep into beta testing of its major update, which would be ideal as it would not remove the key element of familiarity, which is so important.

Radical changes to the functionality of a forum people are used to can kill a forum, so the current focus is to use the upgraded SMF 2.1 when it's in stable release.
Changing forum software is never ideal, but I am starting to think that SMF may no longer be the best route. It is turning into the Windows 95 of forum software. I believe the 2.1 update that is finally nearing release has been under development since 2014! I've been reading the release notes, and I have no idea how that could possibly take so long. Not seeing anything ground breaking in them. It seems inevitable that SMF is going to fall too far behind eventually. XenForo, on the other hand, is keeping up with the times very well. It is the best forum software out there in my opinion.

That all being said, there would certainly be riots in the streets if we were to switch. However, I think people would survive. The core functionality is actually quite similar. Additionally, while the regulars on NSF are obviously use to SMF, it is hard to judge how many people are being turned away from the site due to the forum software being so ancient (lack of mobile support, crappy UI, etc).
« Last Edit: 02/15/2019 03:53 am by Michael Baylor »

Offline butterwaffle

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Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #157 on: 02/15/2019 04:52 am »
It might be worth exploring by setting up a Discourse mirror (either read-only or with a notice that all new content will be erased) to see how people like the look and feel.

https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-from-smf-to-discourse/26322

I have not looked into it much, but if migrating content from SMF is as easy as the link above makes it look, it might help gauge interest and kick the tires.

Online Johnnyhinbos

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Re: NSF Master Plan for 2017 onwards (Help create it)
« Reply #158 on: 02/15/2019 10:21 am »
Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make a new, er, forum format.

Besides, if I’ve learned anything from this site, it’s that people loooove to complain - so, no matter what you do folks will grumble and moan. Might as well orient yourself in the best possible direction, put your head down, and march forward...
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