The Reaction Engines Skylon/SABRE Master Thread (6)

[JCRM]

Could the thrust chamber be adapted for LNG or JP-X for the Gen 6 fighter?

There's no point.

The "magic" is in the low temperature and high specific heat capacity and latent heat of the liquid hydrogen fuel, used (indirectly) to cool the incoming air. So whether or not the thrust chamber could be modified, the high-mach air-breathing engine can't really run on anything else.

The benefits (other than fuel density) of using other fuels are around ease of handling; as LH2 is required anyway these become moot.

[JCRM]

https://publicaccess.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=OLU12KCL0H000


Use this link to view the planning applications for Reaction Engines new Rocket test site at Westcott.

The planning application contains no reference to the hazardous substance Oxygen P2,25; nor does the layout have any space set aside for them, so it looks as though #SABRETF1 will only be testing the air-breathing aspects of the engine

[Star One]

Could the thrust chamber be adapted for LNG or JP-X for the Gen 6 fighter?

There's no point.

The "magic" is in the low temperature and high specific heat capacity and latent heat of the liquid hydrogen fuel, used (indirectly) to cool the incoming air. So whether or not the thrust chamber could be modified, the high-mach air-breathing engine can't really run on anything else.

The benefits (other than fuel density) of using other fuels are around ease of handling; as LH2 is required anyway these become moot.

I'd thought the Scimitar engines would be ideal for something like the SR-72.

[momerathe]

Yeah, the standard SABRE engine would seem more appropriate for a boost-glide mission profile.

[RonM]

Could the thrust chamber be adapted for LNG or JP-X for the Gen 6 fighter?

There's no point.

The "magic" is in the low temperature and high specific heat capacity and latent heat of the liquid hydrogen fuel, used (indirectly) to cool the incoming air. So whether or not the thrust chamber could be modified, the high-mach air-breathing engine can't really run on anything else.

The benefits (other than fuel density) of using other fuels are around ease of handling; as LH2 is required anyway these become moot.

I'd thought the Scimitar engines would be ideal for something like the SR-72.

Yes, Scimitar engines would be good for a high-speed reconnaissance aircraft like the SR-72 or maybe even a strategic bomber, but not a fighter.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Published on 8 May 2017

Animation of Reaction Engines SABRE TF1 test facility at Westcott Venture Park near Aylesbury.

[andyr]

Bit of a shame there is no shed in that graphic.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Nice to see a current view of the test site:

From this to this! Future of rocket power as @ReactionEngines comes to @WestcottVP. More tonight @BBCSouthToday 1830hrs

https://twitter.com/brennannicholls/status/861929034019729408

[john smith 19]

Other opportunities, as in Prompt Global Strike?

Could the thrust chamber be adapted for LNG or JP-X for the Gen 6 fighter?

Where BAe are concerned of course it's possible.

Provided you have the money to pay for it of course.

[CameronD]

Nice to see a current view of the test site:

Looks kinda derelict to me. ..but even if they haven't yet cut the grass, at least they've cleaned away most of the rubbish so there's hope yet.

[pargoo]

   Yeah, you can really see where the money's going...

[john smith 19]

   Yeah, you can really see where the money's going...

Indeed. There's a lot of work to do.

[JCRM]

Nice to see a current view of the test site:

Looks kinda derelict to me. ..but even if they haven't yet cut the grass, at least they've cleaned away most of the rubbish so there's hope yet.

That's the Westcott K2 test stand, a grade II* listed building about 800 meters NNE of where the REL test stand will be.

page 3:
Rockspring is investing £2 million in infrastructure works on 28 acres of the park which
will provide a new estate road, drainage system and electrical supplies. [...]  Reaction Engines Ltd to take 6-acres for a new test facility and assembly building.

[Soundbite]

I have just read the article in the FT https://www.ft.com/content/33f3cfe2-2ecd-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a about the test stand and apart from all the stuff we already know, it says that Tom Scrope, the finance director stated that REL could launch a new product as early as next year based on their cooling technology. He said that some institutional investors have expressed an interest in fully funding a non-competing spin-out of the technology on a standalone basis. Interesting.

[t43562]

At the Rolls Royce lecture Mark Thomas said something about the heat exchangers being something that could go into jet engines. He wasn't talking about the precooler but the Micro Channel Heat Exchangers for high pressure liquids that reject heat from the helium loop into the fuel.  So I wonder if it's that?

I suppose another idea might be to build a copy of their vacuum furnace.  Then they could keep the current one pristine for precoolers and do work for other space businesses with the copy,

[Asteroza]

At the Rolls Royce lecture Mark Thomas said something about the heat exchangers being something that could go into jet engines. He wasn't talking about the precooler but the Micro Channel Heat Exchangers for high pressure liquids that reject heat from the helium loop into the fuel.  So I wonder if it's that?

I suppose another idea might be to build a copy of their vacuum furnace.  Then they could keep the current one pristine for precoolers and do work for other space businesses with the copy,

There is a market for advanced thermal management on aircraft using fuel cooling (using reject heat to preheat fuel, then dump overboard as effectively open loop cooling). F-35 is an advanced example, using fuel for systems cooling and actuator hydraulic fluid in a bid to reduce aircraft weight by going single fluid.

I suppose Rolls Royce might be interested in integrated fuel fluid hydraulics for conventional turbofans (within the engine), but no current or near term civilian aircraft have proposed going single fluid for thermal/hydraulic, probably because of the immense system integrated design approach necessary to pull it off.

Otherwise, the differentiator is high pressure high heat exchangers (high pressure differential?), compared to something like a PCHE.

[CrewtaiL]

Went to a talk by one of the company's control systems engineers on Wednesday at Arup's UK HQ.

Not the best of talks, tbh - I don't know if the presenter was dumbing it down for the audience but I sometimes felt I knew more about SABRE and SKYLON than he did.

Regardless, some new tidbits of info.:

1. The HX is going to America in December of this year to be put through rigorous testing across the 0-5.5 MACH range. Tests done so far haven't simulated incoming hypersonic air at 1000 degrees Celsius.

2. Plan is to have HX + core (combined) resolved and tested by 2020; complete engine (including rocketry) by 2021.

3. A small vehicle incorporating a single SABRE as its main propulsion device but also a conventional jet engine (in case of failure) is planned for flight by 2025.

4. TSTO is seemingly the name of the next step.


Oh, and Brexit is a 'pain' but not a showstopper and he wasn't aware of any military application of the tech, but then he seemed out of the loop on some things

[knowles2]

Went to a talk by one of the company's control systems engineers on Wednesday at Arup's UK HQ.

Not the best of talks, tbh - I don't know if the presenter was dumbing it down for the audience but I sometimes felt I knew more about SABRE and SKYLON than he did.

Regardless, some new tidbits of info.:

1. The HX is going to America in December of this year to be put through rigorous testing across the 0-5.5 MACH range. Tests done so far haven't simulated incoming hypersonic air at 1000 degrees Celsius.

2. Plan is to have HX + core (combined) resolved and tested by 2020; complete engine (including rocketry) by 2021.

3. A small vehicle incorporating a single SABRE as its main propulsion device but also a conventional jet engine (in case of failure) is planned for flight by 2025.

4. TSTO is seemingly the name of the next step.


Oh, and Brexit is a 'pain' but not a showstopper and he wasn't aware of any military application of the tech, but then he seemed out of the loop on some things

So the program is delayed again by another year, I thought the full engine was meant to be going under testing in 2019?

[CrewtaiL]

Pretty sure it was always the case that the core would be tested in 2019

[john smith 19]

There is a market for advanced thermal management on aircraft using fuel cooling (using reject heat to preheat fuel, then dump overboard as effectively open loop cooling). F-35 is an advanced example, using fuel for systems cooling and actuator hydraulic fluid in a bid to reduce aircraft weight by going single fluid.

Fairly common in rocket engine TVC's and the SR71. Historically avoided because basically fuel is not an hydraulic fluid.

I suppose Rolls Royce might be interested in integrated fuel fluid hydraulics for conventional turbofans (within the engine), but no current or near term civilian aircraft have proposed going single fluid for thermal/hydraulic, probably because of the immense system integrated design approach necessary to pull it off.

An improved HX system would dump heat from hydraulic fluid into the fuel but be lighter than existing systems.

At the Rolls Royce lecture Mark Thomas said something about the heat exchangers being something that could go into jet engines. He wasn't talking about the precooler but the Micro Channel Heat Exchangers for high pressure liquids that reject heat from the helium loop into the fuel.  So I wonder if it's that?

Sounds plausible. MCHE's are right in Reaction Engines core skillset.

I suppose another idea might be to build a copy of their vacuum furnace.  Then they could keep the current one pristine for precoolers and do work for other space businesses with the copy,

Building a large vacuum furnace (and that's  a pretty large one)  is a specialized business. I don't think it would be worth REL's while to do so.

What REL do have is skill in operating such a furnace, which is tricky.