Author Topic: Orbiter retirement  (Read 323632 times)

Offline mastronaut

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Orbiter retirement
« on: 08/30/2006 01:42 am »

I know this is premature, but when the shuttles are finally retired who will get them? How will they be displayed?

Full stack or horizontal? Do you think people will be allowed to walk through? Just something I've been thinking about.

 


Offline HailColumbia

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #1 on: 08/30/2006 01:48 am »
I think this has been discussed elsewhere. There is some legislation in the works for palmdale to get an orbiter, (atlantis I think)

They absolutly cannot allow people to walk through, the orbiters would be destroyed. We cant have some kid sticking gum on the walls of the flight deck, plus, not much room in there for tour groups anyway.  Do they let you sit in apollo 11 at the smithsonian? no. its sacred, so are the shuttles.

I would imagine that they would be displayed horizonatally, a full stack seems hard to me, as it would be criminal to display them outdoors. you would need a pretty big space to display a vertical shuttle stack. maybe somthing like pathfinder.... but indoors.
-Steve

Offline Ben E

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #2 on: 08/30/2006 01:57 am »
Steve, I agree, they should never allow anyone inside. However, I think a video guided tour of the orbiter for visitors would be good or perhaps even a full-scale mockup alongside the real thing.

Offline vt_hokie

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #3 on: 08/30/2006 02:20 am »
I agree, having priceless orbiters subject to that kind of abuse is out of the question.  However, the "Explorer" mockup at the KSC Visitors Center is a fairly realistic replica that you can walk right up to.

Offline MKremer

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #4 on: 08/30/2006 02:22 am »
For a display, you kind of have to choose whether you'd want the public to only view it from a distance, or get closer to see more details. I'd prefer to have close-up views rather than just look at it from a distance (like the Bell X-1 and other craft hanging far away from everyone):

Mount the orbiter on pillars (one for each landing gear) so the bottom is 12-15 feet off the floor, to allow visitors to walk underneath and observe/photograph the tiles, ET attachments, and engines. For the top, have wide walkways surrounding the orbiter - close enough to see the details and look into the cockpit windows (and engines), but also far enough away to prevent possible damage (10 feet or so).

Offline TyMoore

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #5 on: 08/30/2006 02:49 am »
This is an excellent idea. I once wrote my congressman and suggested that if the Hubble telescope was to be scrapped, that it sort of 'earned the right to exist,' and I suggested that one final servicing mission be used to crate up the 'scope and bring it back to earth. I suggested that the Smithsonian surely could find a place of honor for the old telescope. I'm glad that people are thinking the same thing for the orbiters. I sure don't want to see the same thing happen to them as has happened to the Russian orbiters.

No matter what anyone personally thinks about the program which gave them life, the orbiters are a historical treasure, and once retired, should be treated as such.

Offline mastronaut

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #6 on: 08/30/2006 03:37 am »
What about an Orbiter building along the lines of the Saturn V display with the shuttle horizontal at an angle (upward heads down position) with the ET above suspended from the ceiling and the SRBs attached to show just how impressive it is. I agree about a runway where people can get close and see inside the cockpit as well. The payload bay doors can be open to show how cavernous it is.

Offline Jim

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #7 on: 08/30/2006 09:51 am »
Quote
mastronaut - 29/8/2006  11:24 PM

What about an Orbiter building along the lines of the Saturn V display with the shuttle horizontal at an angle (upward heads down position) with the ET above suspended from the ceiling and the SRBs attached to show just how impressive it is. I agree about a runway where people can get close and see inside the cockpit as well. The payload bay doors can be open to show how cavernous it is.

So the "Space Shuttle Center" at KSC is going to be 1/4 the size of the VAB with unbelievable trusswork.  The best you could hope for  is like the MSFC and KSC stacks at the visitor centers

PS.  Payload bay doors can't be opened in 1g with out some support.

Offline mastronaut

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #8 on: 08/30/2006 11:11 am »
I think it should definately be indoors to prevent deterioration...I didn't know the payload doors are so flimsy.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #9 on: 08/30/2006 01:31 pm »
Quote
Ben E - 30/8/2006  2:44 AM

Steve, I agree, they should never allow anyone inside. However, I think a video guided tour of the orbiter for visitors would be good or perhaps even a full-scale mockup alongside the real thing.

I agree. I would find it highly disrespectful if they allowed tourists inside, getting their sticky fingers all over flight deck.
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Offline Mark Dave

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #10 on: 08/30/2006 04:50 pm »
Yeah indoors please. Proof of not is the Saturn V at JSC, now with holes in it and garbage in it.

I would think to show it in the vertical, to show how massive it is ready to launch. A good way is a building the size of the ET Michoud facility just big enough for the stack to fit and room for visitors to walk around, but not touch the vehicle. I'd let Discovery be posed in her launch position on a ET/SRB stack as she is the most flown of the fleet. Atlantis can be shown similar to Enterprise, but with scafolds all over it with the orbiter behind glass. I got that idea from seeing Apollo 8 at the Museum of Science and Industry here in Chicago and the U boat displayed now in an enclosed underground room.

Offline spaceshuttle

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #11 on: 08/30/2006 04:56 pm »
Quote
MarkD - 30/8/2006  11:37 AM

Yeah indoors please. Proof of not is the Saturn V at JSC, now with holes in it and garbage in it.

I would think to show it in the vertical, to show how massive it is ready to launch. A good way is a building the size of the ET Michoud facility just big enough for the stack to fit and room for visitors to walk around, but not touch the vehicle. I'd let Discovery be posed in her launch position on a ET/SRB stack as she is the most flown of the fleet. Atlantis can be shown similar to Enterprise, but with scafolds all over it with the orbiter behind glass. I got that idea from seeing Apollo 8 at the Museum of Science and Industry here in Chicago and the U boat displayed now in an enclosed underground room.

with the technology of today, they could possible simulate SSME ignition through a laser show...
T-10...9...8...7...we're go for main engine start...4...3...2...1...0 and liftoff of Shuttle Daedalus as the National Aerospace System celebrates its 25th mission.

Offline astrobrian

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #12 on: 08/30/2006 09:04 pm »

Quote
MarkD - 30/8/2006  11:37 AM  Yeah indoors please. Proof of not is the Saturn V at JSC, now with holes in it and garbage in it.   I would think to show it in the vertical, to show how massive it is ready to launch. A good way is a building the size of the ET Michoud facility just big enough for the stack to fit and room for visitors to walk around, but not touch the vehicle. I'd let Discovery be posed in her launch position on a ET/SRB stack as she is the most flown of the fleet. Atlantis can be shown similar to Enterprise, but with scafolds all over it with the orbiter behind glass. I got that idea from seeing Apollo 8 at the Museum of Science and Industry here in Chicago and the U boat displayed now in an enclosed underground room.

Jog around it a couple times and you get a feel for its size for sure.  They have indeed let the Saturn V go, but it has undergone some restorations and a building now around it. I plan on going down next weekend to check it out.  As for the orbiters, I think they too should have thier own buildings, climate controlled as well.  I like the video tour idea, they should have that on dvd for cheap when going by the display. 


Offline gordo

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #13 on: 08/31/2006 12:41 pm »
There are 4 Orbiters and 4 Locations where my bets are:

Dulles - Discovery
KSC - Endeavour
Seattle - Atlantis
Palmdale - Enterprise


Offline mastronaut

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #14 on: 08/31/2006 12:46 pm »
I say,  KSC - Discovery
Huntsville - Atlantis
Houston - Endeavour
Smithsonian - Enterprise  ;) The heavy hitters have to get the orbiters.

Offline Jim

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #15 on: 08/31/2006 12:56 pm »
I don't see a non NASA center other than the NASM getting an orbiter.   I will rank the places in the order of most likely

NASM (since they already have one)
KSC
JSC
NASM (space flown orbiter)
MSFC (left overs)

Palmdale
WPAFB and Seattle (which really has no claim)  

It doesn't matter which of the spaceflown ones go where, since there isn't a discriminator

Offline simonbp

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #16 on: 08/31/2006 01:48 pm »
Wouldn't that be hilarious (and very unlikey) that Huntsville would get two Shuttles in addition to two Saturn Vs... :)

The USSRC would need to raise some serious money to house a flown orbiter; they're already squeezing the stone dry trying to build the new Saturn V building...

Now, if they could the dynamic test articles for Ares I and V... :)

EDIT: A Palmdale Shuttle center would be good, rather than keeping everything in the East...

Simon ;)

Offline Austin

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #17 on: 08/31/2006 07:35 pm »
Quote
Jim - 31/8/2006  5:43 AM

I don't see a non NASA center other than the NASM getting an orbiter.   I will rank the places in the order of most likely

NASM (since they already have one)
KSC
JSC
NASM (space flown orbiter)
MSFC (left overs)

Palmdale
WPAFB and Seattle (which really has no claim)  

It doesn't matter which of the spaceflown ones go where, since there isn't a discriminator

Jim, KSC and JSC I agree with, but do you really think NASM should have two?  I know that Enterprise isn't spaceflown, but aren't the dimensions the same? (as flown orbiters)

Palmdale I could see as well.

Offline Jim

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #18 on: 08/31/2006 07:44 pm »
I don't mean two, I mean that get one ( maybe exchange OV-101 for one of the others) and then MSFC gets whatever is left,  because OV-101 was at  MSFC for tests at one time

Offline Austin

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Re: Orbiter retirement
« Reply #19 on: 08/31/2006 07:55 pm »
Quote
Jim - 31/8/2006  12:31 PM

I don't mean two, I mean that get one ( maybe exchange OV-101 for one of the others) and then MSFC gets whatever is left,  because OV-101 was at  MSFC for tests at one time

Oh, gotcha.

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