Axiom Space LLC

[Athelstane]

Since this station starts out attached to the US section of ISS, and has power/cooling comparable to ISS, I have to ask, is it technically possible to take some of the labs with them?  Could they supply power, etc to those modules?  Is there any reason to, to keep those resources on orbit?

Or do they have no choice but to cast off all of it?

It is technically possible, but probably impractical to disconnect any of of the core US modules. They will also have been exposed to space for over 20 years, and the systems only have a certain lifetime. It is probably more trouble than it is worth.

The assembly video does appear to show it taking the Leonardo module with it, though I presume this is because (unlike those core modules) it's only been up there since 2010, and it's only really used for storage anyway, making it pretty dispensable if it becomes untenable. Perhaps it is not even intended to stay with the Axiom station for very long, either.

It does make me wonder what else Suffredini has in mind for extracting from ISS.

[TrevorMonty]

Axiom station will use common components where possible to reduce number of spares. ISS with its multiple suppliers had something like 140 different  fans. That is 140 fans needed for spares. Axiom are trying to avoid these spares nightmares.

Bringing old ISS modules with them would add considerable to their maintenance costs.

Where possible everything that is likely to need servicing will be within pressure hull,  Space walks will be last resort. NB ISS crew are currently up for few space walks to replace old batteries.

[Athelstane]

ISS with its multiple suppliers had something like 140 different  fans. That is 140 fans needed for spares.

Yikes.

[TrevorMonty]

ISS with its multiple suppliers had something like 140 different  fans. That is 140 fans needed for spares.

Yikes.

They all choose best fan for job, which is fine for expendable spacecraft which needs to keep its mass down. As NASA has discovered not so good for space station with life of +30yrs.

[whitelancer64]

It's not totally surprising if you think about it - Example, computers often have 3 different sized fans in them. One big one on top or back, one medium on the front, small one(s) on the graphics card and / or CPU. And that's here on Earth. In microgravity you don't have convective air flows, so you have to have fans. Both for small applications like computers / laptops, probably medium ones for experiment racks, and larger ones for air circulation. You'll have different airflow needs for different sized spaces, and most of the modules are all slightly different sizes.

Also, I'd expect the Russians have different supliers for things like fans than the USOS / ESA / JAXA does. Maybe the ESA and JAXA also have different fans... so that'd be a big multiplier.

However, it looks like the Axiom modules are going to be pretty much uniform in size, so all the modules should be able to use the same sized fans for their various airflow needs.

[Athelstane]

ISS with its multiple suppliers had something like 140 different  fans. That is 140 fans needed for spares.

Yikes.

They all choose best fan for job, which is fine for expendable spacecraft which needs to keep its mass down. As NASA has discovered not so good for space station with life of +30yrs.

Is that 140 fans for just the U.S. owned modules, or does that also embrace Kibo and Columbo? (I'm assuming the Russian Orbital segment isnot factoring in here.)

[Rik ISS-fan]

Is that 140 fans for just the U.S. owned modules, or does that also embrace Kibo and Columbo? (I'm assuming the Russian Orbital segment isnot factoring in here.)

U.S. owned modules are:
Node1 Unity, Quest Airlock, US Laboratory Destiny, Node 2 Harmony, Node 3 Tranquility and PMM (build from MPLM Leonardo). The funny thing is; most of these modules were build in Europe as barter elements for utilization of the ISS. Italy provided the three MPLM modules. And ESA Node2 and Node3.
These modules build in Europe are more likely to share parts with the ESA Columbus module.

I think it would be technically possibly to disconnect Node3 from Node1 and Node2 from US Lab Destiny. This also means taking BEAM, PMM, Columbus (& Bartolomeo), Bishop Airlock and Kibo along. These could be taken with the Axion station to continue ISS.
There is one big but. These module need power and cooling. At the ISS this is provided via the US lab, that has the main connection to the truss. AFAIK the "core" of the ISS is FGB, PMA1, Node1, US Lab Destiny and all components of the thruss. These can't be disconnected anymore.
Also there are EVA's required to disconnect and reconnect external cables.
Then there is also the question why Axiom would be allowed to reuse the modules. I think taking modules from the ISS means continuing the partnership.

I've looked at the Axiom station rendering. I think it uses leftovers from the ISS, a MPLM (Donatello or Raffaello) and the 5th ELC (Express Logistic Carrier) or a ICC (Integrated Cargo Carrier). AFAIK these are stowed in the SSPF NASA cleanroom.

If the ISS is continued as partnership, I think a radial inflating Bigelow aerospace replacement for the US Lab would be very interesting. This should have the ISS USOS module layout, but with two racks in front of each other. ISPR's at the outer ring, and RAF's at the inner ring.
I prefer CBM ports between permanently connected modules, instead of IDSS ports. In my opinion;
A removable system should be developed, that replaces the four latch and bold driving assemblies from the active CBM. This system should provide IDSS softdock capability and the latch and bolt drive function. And it should be removable and fit trough the CBM hatch. A passive CBM should get a fixed mounted IDSS softdock ring.
If Axiom doesn't use CBM's they can't take ISPR racks from the ISS. These racks are most likely the most valuable for them. 

[TrevorMonty]

ISS with its multiple suppliers had something like 140 different  fans. That is 140 fans needed for spares.

Yikes.

They all choose best fan for job, which is fine for expendable spacecraft which needs to keep its mass down. As NASA has discovered not so good for space station with life of +30yrs.

Is that 140 fans for just the U.S. owned modules, or does that also embrace Kibo and Columbo? (I'm assuming the Russian Orbital segment isnot factoring in here.)

The 140 is going off memory of something I read years ago. Not sure if I could find it again. Even if wrong numbers were up there which is why I remember it.

[Athelstane]

Is that 140 fans for just the U.S. owned modules, or does that also embrace Kibo and Columbo? (I'm assuming the Russian Orbital segment isnot factoring in here.)

U.S. owned modules are:
Node1 Unity, Quest Airlock, US Laboratory Destiny, Node 2 Harmony, Node 3 Tranquility and PMM (build from MPLM Leonardo). The funny thing is; most of these modules were build in Europe as barter elements for utilization of the ISS. Italy provided the three MPLM modules. And ESA Node2 and Node3.
These modules build in Europe are more likely to share parts with the ESA Columbus module.

I think it would be technically possibly to disconnect Node3 from Node1 and Node2 from US Lab Destiny. This also means taking BEAM, PMM, Columbus (& Bartolomeo), Bishop Airlock and Kibo along. These could be taken with the Axion station to continue ISS.
There is one big but. These module need power and cooling. At the ISS this is provided via the US lab, that has the main connection to the truss. AFAIK the "core" of the ISS is FGB, PMA1, Node1, US Lab Destiny and all components of the thruss. These can't be disconnected anymore.
Also there are EVA's required to disconnect and reconnect external cables.
Then there is also the question why Axiom would be allowed to reuse the modules. I think taking modules from the ISS means continuing the partnership.

I've looked at the Axiom station rendering. I think it uses leftovers from the ISS, a MPLM (Donatello or Raffaello) and the 5th ELC (Express Logistic Carrier) or a ICC (Integrated Cargo Carrier). AFAIK these are stowed in the SSPF NASA cleanroom.

If the ISS is continued as partnership, I think a radial inflating Bigelow aerospace replacement for the US Lab would be very interesting. This should have the ISS USOS module layout, but with two racks in front of each other. ISPR's at the outer ring, and RAF's at the inner ring.
I prefer CBM ports between permanently connected modules, instead of IDSS ports. In my opinion;
A removable system should be developed, that replaces the four latch and bold driving assemblies from the active CBM. This system should provide IDSS softdock capability and the latch and bolt drive function. And it should be removable and fit trough the CBM hatch. A passive CBM should get a fixed mounted IDSS softdock ring.
If Axiom doesn't use CBM's they can't take ISPR racks from the ISS. These racks are most likely the most valuable for them.

More detail than I was expecting!

Time will tell what NASA, JAXA, and ESA decide to salvage from the station, and in what manner.

[TrevorMonty]

Should be some reference to Axiom podcasts further up thread. I think they talked about possibility of take some of ISS modules with them when separating.

When Axiom separate and go it alone it is most likely end of ISS, with NASA leasing part of Axiom or another commercial station.  NASA wants to retire ISS and Axiom gives them means to do so while still having access to space station for lot less than $3B a year.

[russianhalo117]

Is that 140 fans for just the U.S. owned modules, or does that also embrace Kibo and Columbo? (I'm assuming the Russian Orbital segment isnot factoring in here.)

U.S. owned modules are:
Node1 Unity, Quest Airlock, US Laboratory Destiny, Node 2 Harmony, Node 3 Tranquility and PMM (build from MPLM Leonardo). The funny thing is; most of these modules were build in Europe as barter elements for utilization of the ISS. Italy provided the three MPLM modules. And ESA Node2 and Node3.
These modules build in Europe are more likely to share parts with the ESA Columbus module.

I think it would be technically possibly to disconnect Node3 from Node1 and Node2 from US Lab Destiny. This also means taking BEAM, PMM, Columbus (& Bartolomeo), Bishop Airlock and Kibo along. These could be taken with the Axion station to continue ISS.
There is one big but. These module need power and cooling. At the ISS this is provided via the US lab, that has the main connection to the truss. AFAIK the "core" of the ISS is FGB, PMA1, Node1, US Lab Destiny and all components of the thruss. These can't be disconnected anymore.
Also there are EVA's required to disconnect and reconnect external cables.
Then there is also the question why Axiom would be allowed to reuse the modules. I think taking modules from the ISS means continuing the partnership.

I've looked at the Axiom station rendering. I think it uses leftovers from the ISS, a MPLM (Donatello or Raffaello) and the 5th ELC (Express Logistic Carrier) or a ICC (Integrated Cargo Carrier). AFAIK these are stowed in the SSPF NASA cleanroom.

If the ISS is continued as partnership, I think a radial inflating Bigelow aerospace replacement for the US Lab would be very interesting. This should have the ISS USOS module layout, but with two racks in front of each other. ISPR's at the outer ring, and RAF's at the inner ring.
I prefer CBM ports between permanently connected modules, instead of IDSS ports. In my opinion;
A removable system should be developed, that replaces the four latch and bold driving assemblies from the active CBM. This system should provide IDSS softdock capability and the latch and bolt drive function. And it should be removable and fit trough the CBM hatch. A passive CBM should get a fixed mounted IDSS softdock ring.
If Axiom doesn't use CBM's they can't take ISPR racks from the ISS. These racks are most likely the most valuable for them.

More detail than I was expecting!

Time will tell what NASA, JAXA, and ESA decide to salvage from the station, and in what manner.

NASA via Boeing contracted manufacture to Khrunichev and RKK Energia and owns FGB (Zarya). It is jointly used. MLM when built as FGB-2 was under the same programme as the flight spare. Khrunichev built FGB-2 under internal funds with cooperation from Boeing so that if FGB-1 was lost during LEOPS, insurance would cover the remainder.

[eeergo]

https://twitter.com/Thales_Alenia_S/status/1275679902885457920

[gongora]

THALES ALENIA SPACE WILL PROVIDE TWO KEY PRESSURIZED ELEMENTS FOR AXIOM COMMERCIAL SPACE STATION

Turin, June 24, 2020 – Thales Alenia Space, Joint Venture between Thales (67 %) and Leonardo (33 %) announced the signature of an ATP (Authorization To Proceed) with Axiom Space of Houston, Texas to initiate the development of two key pressurized elements dedicated to the world’s first commercial space station.

In January, NASA selected Axiom’s proposal to attach its space station modules to the International Space Station (ISS) starting from the second half of 2024, ultimately creating a new ‘Axiom Segment’ which will expand the usable and habitable volume of the ISS. When the ISS reaches its retirement date, the Axiom complex will detach and operate as a free-flying commercial space station. The Axiom Segment will be attached to the ISS Node 2 built by Thales Alenia Space.

Axiom is offering professional and private astronaut flights to the ISS at a rate of up to two per year, with the first set to launch in October 2021, while it develops the new station elements.

Based on its past successful experience building modules for the International Space Station, Thales Alenia Space will be responsible for the design, development, assembly and test of the primary structure and the Micrometeoroid & Debris Protection System for the Axiom Node One (AxN1) and Habitation Module (AxH), the first two Axiom station elements to fly. Axiom will receive these elements at their facility in Houston for integration and outfitting of core systems and certification of flight prior to shipping to the launch facility.

Walter Cugno, Thales Alenia Space Vice President, Science and Exploration commented: “With its unrivaled expertise for pressurized modules, Thales Alenia Space is an essential partner for all human and deep space exploration missions. I am confident this partnership with Axiom will open new horizons by revolutionizing the human presence in low-Earth orbit.”

Massimo Comparini, Thales Alenia Space Senior Executive Vice President Observation Exploration & Navigation business line stated: ”This mission is an important step toward enabling the development of independent commercial destinations, and fostering the growth of a strong and competitive low-Earth orbit economy. The synergy with the entire space ecosystem, from Governmental institutions and international Agencies, to private companies, positions Thales Alenia Space at the very core of the industry, and together with our partner Axiom we are happy to partake in this new enterprise of building the new sustainable low-Earth Orbit market based on commercial space destinations.”
 
“The legacy of the International Space Station structure is one of safety and reliability despite huge technical complexity,” said Axiom Space CEO Michael Suffredini, formerly NASA’s ISS Program Manager from 2005 to 2015. “We are thrilled to combine Axiom’s human spaceflight expertise with Thales Alenia Space’s experience to build the next stage of human settlement in Low Earth Orbit from a foundation that is tried and tested. The first two modules of the Axiom Commercial Space Station will serve as the wellspring of a thriving commercial future in space.”

Thales Alenia Space has supplied a significant part of the pressurized elements of the International Space Station, including state-of-the-art components such as Node 2, Node 3, Columbus (pressurized part) - European Laboratory, Multi-Purpose Logistics Module (MPLM), the Permanent Logistic Module (PPM) and Cupola, as well as the ATV and Cygnus cargo modules.

[Ronsmytheiii]

New Glenn has been identified as the launch vehicle selected to fly the first two modules of the Axiom station - https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueOrigin/comments/hk72xe/interview_with_the_module_manufacturer_of_the/

[TrevorMonty]

New Glenn has been identified as the launch vehicle selected to fly the first two modules of the Axiom station - https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueOrigin/comments/hk72xe/interview_with_the_module_manufacturer_of_the/

FH is backup. Must be heavy module.

[JEF_300]

New Glenn has been identified as the launch vehicle selected to fly the first two modules of the Axiom station - https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueOrigin/comments/hk72xe/interview_with_the_module_manufacturer_of_the/

FH is backup. Must be heavy module.

If I understood the article I read correctly, this first launch isn't just a module, but a module, a node, and the big Cupola.

[brickmack]

The node is the module.

[cwr]

The node is the module.

My understanding is that there are habitation modules somewhat equivalent to ISS lab modules
like Destiny, Columbus, etc. The Axiom hab modules are a bit fancier since they have windows.

Axiom nodes are similar to ISS nodes but have more space.

Axiom nodes and axiom hab modules are distinctly different - just look at their web site.

Carl

[yg1968]

We're excited to launch episode 3 of our Deep Space Podcast’s first series, Entrepreneurs in Space! Join us for a conversation with @Axiom_Space CEO Mike Suffredini, who discusses the economic development of low Earth orbit as we #ExploreFurtherTogether:

https://deepspace.buzzsprout.com/833200/3797729
 
https://twitter.com/XploreDeepSpace/status/1285572910518865921

[ddspaceman]

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1306633490633494530