SpaceX Falcon 9 - EchoStar 23 - March 16, 2017 - DISCUSSION

[VIY]

Oh I thought it was a technology for all their flights in future, do you have any info on when it will be implemented regularly?

It will be primary on all future flights, but the EchoStar booster (1030) is older than the CRS-10 booster (1031) that just flew before it.

So, can we assume that 1031 is the first of F9.v4 core?

[meberbs]

Oh I thought it was a technology for all their flights in future, do you have any info on when it will be implemented regularly?

It will be primary on all future flights, but the EchoStar booster (1030) is older than the CRS-10 booster (1031) that just flew before it.

So, can we assume that 1031 is the first of F9.v4 core?

No, AFTS has been part of Block 3, just running in shadow mode. We have no information on what the differences are for Block 3 vs Block 4, but the use of AFTS is uncorrelated to them. Any of the recent flights could have had it enabled if decision was made to do so in time for all the other support to be set up right. Small changes such as some software updates can be made between flights without it being a new Block number. Even some hardware changes, unless we hear otherwise, the fixes they made for RTF this time don't correspond to a block number change.

[IanThePineapple]

I wonder when Block 4 will be implemented, or if it already flew on CRS 10...

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Makes sense, but Delta IV is scheduled on Friday and I thought two days were needed to reconfigure the range? (At least if AFSS isn't being used on Thursday)

It is 2 "work days", since it is about 2 am Thursday and 7 pm Friday. Unless the rule is "48 hours", it shouldn't be a problem.

Just to close-off this part of the discussion, it looks like Delta IV launch has indeed moved back a day to Saturday (although not clear why).

[russianhalo117]

Makes sense, but Delta IV is scheduled on Friday and I thought two days were needed to reconfigure the range? (At least if AFSS isn't being used on Thursday)

It is 2 "work days", since it is about 2 am Thursday and 7 pm Friday. Unless the rule is "48 hours", it shouldn't be a problem.

Just to close-off this part of the discussion, it looks like Delta IV launch has indeed moved back a day to Saturday (although not clear why).

range conflict between this flight and the DIV flight so DIV was shifted to clear the conflict.

[Orbiter]

To say the weather situation is different from the previous attempt is an understatement. Assuming a successful launch early tomorrow morning, the F9 should be visible from across the entire state. Also going to be one of the colder launches, with temperatures predicted to be around 42F at the time of T-0 and dropping throughout the window.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

45th Space Wing @45thSpaceWing 2m2 minutes ago

Thank you @SpaceX for the newest addition to our dining facility. Can't wait to launch with you tomorrow dark and early!

https://twitter.com/45thSpaceWing/status/842052948020600832

[IanThePineapple]

45th Space Wing @45thSpaceWing 2m2 minutes ago

Thank you @SpaceX for the newest addition to our dining facility. Can't wait to launch with you tomorrow dark and early!

https://twitter.com/45thSpaceWing/status/842052948020600832

I need one.

[wannamoonbase]

45th Space Wing @45thSpaceWing 2m2 minutes ago

Thank you @SpaceX for the newest addition to our dining facility. Can't wait to launch with you tomorrow dark and early!

https://twitter.com/45thSpaceWing/status/842052948020600832

I need one.

Agreed, this is not a want, it is a need.

[whitelancer64]

I wonder if 9 large Estes rockets could be fitted into the base of that... 

[Flying Beaver]

Appears Falcon 9 is vertical again:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRqtj0pg8cg/

Maybe because it never went horizontal...

[cscott]

Does anyone know why they planned a 2 day attempt delay for this launch?

Likely has to do with LOX conditioning.

And IIUC they didn't actually get significantly through prop load on the first attempt, so they were able to request a 24hr turnaround using their already-conditioned LOX.  The range couldn't get all its people rescheduled at such short notice though, since SpaceX's had originally requested the standard 48hr backup window, so it didn't end up happening.

[mn]

... standard 48hr backup window, so it didn't end up happening ...

When did the standard backup window become 48 hours?

CRS 10 definitely had a 24 backup date. So we KNOW they can do 24 hr turn around on a full prop load.

[vanoord]

Does anyone know why they planned a 2 day attempt delay for this launch?

Likely has to do with LOX conditioning.

And IIUC they didn't actually get significantly through prop load on the first attempt, so they were able to request a 24hr turnaround using their already-conditioned LOX.  The range couldn't get all its people rescheduled at such short notice though, since SpaceX's had originally requested the standard 48hr backup window, so it didn't end up happening.

Does the time of day have an effect?

If a launch at 1.30am is scrubbed, the ground crew aren't going to be in a particularly good shape the following night.

[Mike_1179]

Does anyone know why they planned a 2 day attempt delay for this launch?

Likely has to do with LOX conditioning.

And IIUC they didn't actually get significantly through prop load on the first attempt, so they were able to request a 24hr turnaround using their already-conditioned LOX.  The range couldn't get all its people rescheduled at such short notice though, since SpaceX's had originally requested the standard 48hr backup window, so it didn't end up happening.

Does the time of day have an effect?

If a launch at 1.30am is scrubbed, the ground crew aren't going to be in a particularly good shape the following night.

From what we've learned here, range employees work 8 hr days / 5 days a week. If you need coverage outside of those times, it needs to be coordinated through shifting their time - same thing goes with work on weekends and holidays. Otherwise your stuck with (a) hiring more people or (b) charging more by paying overtime. Neither of which is preferred if you need to keep range costs down. Specifically option (a) above is not preferred since you don't need that surge of people more than a few times a month.

In the end, it seems like you need to plan out what you're going to do on the range. "But I have a rocket ready to go" isn't enough of a reason.

[mn]

The vast majority of F9 launches (and other's too, just haven't followed those as closely) have had 24 hrs backup dates for as long as I can remember. (Including after switching to FT).

Obviously that needs to be coordinated in advance, that is what reserving a date on the range is for.

The 48 hr wait on this launch is the unusual exception.

edit adding this little bit: I do recall reading somewhere here that the range will not give you 3 days in a row

[georgegassaway]

The vast majority of F9 launches (and other's too, just haven't followed those as closely) have had 24 hrs backup dates for as long as I can remember. (Including after switching to FT).

Obviously that needs to be coordinated in advance, that is what reserving a date on the range is for.

The 48 hr wait on this launch is the unusual exception.

Have other 24 hour turnarounds (or back-up dates) been at night?  Or more closely in sync with daytime when the workers would not need to screw up their sleep cycles so badly?   For example an attempted launch at noon, scrubbed, and rescheduled for noon the next day would not have nearly as much impact on workers as midnight launches.

But I also do recognize that for many of the workers,  "Launch day" can be a VERY long day (way past 8 hours), even if scrubbed, so a day of padding to recover for yet another very long day after that is useful.

And actually i'm sort of surprised the workers would not get "overtime" pay for working at say midnight, and on weekends (being given Friday off and ordered to come in on Sunday for the SAME PAY, not an equal deal. Same for swapping 8 AM to 5 PM for 8 PM to 5 AM. Lost family time, and/or weekend plans ruined at short notice).  I'd expect for the launching company (or entity owning the rocket being launched) to pay for any such overtime too, but it sounds like not.

[mn]

The vast majority of F9 launches (and other's too, just haven't followed those as closely) have had 24 hrs backup dates for as long as I can remember. (Including after switching to FT).

Obviously that needs to be coordinated in advance, that is what reserving a date on the range is for.

The 48 hr wait on this launch is the unusual exception.

Have other 24 hour turnarounds been at night?  Or more in sync with daytime when the workers would not need to screw up their sleep cycles so badly?   For example an attempted launch at noon, scrubbed, and rescheduled for noon the next day would not have nearly as much impact on workers as midnight launches.

And actually i'm sort of surprised the workers would not get "overtime" pay for working at say midnight, and on weekends (being given Friday off and ordered to come in on Sunday for the SAME PAY, not an equal deal. Same for swapping 8 AM to 5 PM for 8 PM to 5 AM. Lost family time, and/or weekend plans ruined at short notice).  I'd expect for the launching company (or entity owning the rocket being launched) to pay for any such overtime too, but it sounds like not.

a: I have never noticed a difference in backup dates depending on time of launch, since as I said the vast majority have had a 24 hrs backup date and that date. (If you have lots of time you can check the list here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_Heavy_launches and go review each thread to see what the backup date was, I have not checked myself but I'm confident that it will be correct if you check)

b: Who said they don't get overtime, I have no idea what they get. I just know that launches have been scheduled at all times of day or night or weekend. If it cost SpaceX extra I have never seen that stop them in the past (we are talking about $millions to launch and you think they are worrying about a little overtime, seriously?)

[Brian45]

To pick up on the "coldest temp" at launch for an F9, how does that effect the temp of the fuel? Can they hold longer because of the temp. Sometimes I imagine the temps are in the 90s down in FL. A 50 degree differential has to have some effect.

[Req]

Maybe they just need more LOX ready than on typical launches because it's such a long window, so could potentially have more recycles than normal.