Author Topic: Vector Space Systems  (Read 206253 times)

Offline meberbs

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1762
  • Liked: 1572
  • Likes Given: 382
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #740 on: 01/25/2018 04:42 PM »
I don't think that's actually a valid use of the term "horizontal integration".

Alright well if you'd like to pick some more nits with me, you can say that the term applies to the organization that builds the vehicle, or the program that develops it.  Either way the fact remains that relying on suppliers to provide you flight-ready hardware they've developed on their own dime rather than designing, building, and integrating it all yourself will eventually come back to haunt anyone looking to drive launch costs to the floor.  Especially small launch providers.
That is not so much a nitpick as a clarification to help communication. "Horizontal integration" already has 2 relevant well known meanings (spacecraft to launch vehicle mating method, and "the process of a company increasing production of goods or services at the same part of the supply chain."). Adding a third will only confuse people.  For the future, it will save a lot of confusion if you just say something like "purchasing all major subsystems from various different vendors with little to nothing built in-house" I don't think there is a term for this or a need for one.

Also, I don't think anyone here doubts that this is a bad idea, but it looks like this isn't Vector's long term plan. I do doubt the value of doing a test launch with almost none of your parts being what you intend to actually use though, which seems like what they may be doing.

Offline ringsider

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
  • Liked: 207
  • Likes Given: 52
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #741 on: 01/25/2018 05:38 PM »
I do doubt the value of doing a test launch with almost none of your parts being what you intend to actually use though, which seems like what they may be doing.

It's their standard operating procedure so far. Just add hyperbole.
« Last Edit: 01/25/2018 05:39 PM by ringsider »

Offline ringsider

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 464
  • Liked: 207
  • Likes Given: 52
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #742 on: 01/25/2018 05:45 PM »
Because nothing screams cost-effectiveness more than racing towards a 2018 orbital launch date with horizontal integration, a non-representative baseline vehicle, and architectural concept drawings of an empty factory.

Your lack of faith is troubling.
« Last Edit: 01/25/2018 05:45 PM by ringsider »

Offline Toast

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #743 on: 01/25/2018 06:20 PM »
For the future, it will save a lot of confusion if you just say something like "purchasing all major subsystems from various different vendors with little to nothing built in-house" I don't think there is a term for this or a need for one.

The term is "outsourcing".

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8643
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3562
  • Likes Given: 840
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #744 on: 01/25/2018 11:04 PM »
The term is "outsourcing".

It has to be in-house first before it can be out-sourced. If it never was, then it's just... sourcing.

"Build or buy" is a step in any engineering process. You can screw it up by doing either too much.

I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline Toast

Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #745 on: 01/26/2018 12:10 AM »
The term is "outsourcing".
It has to be in-house first before it can be out-sourced. If it never was, then it's just... sourcing.

"Build or buy" is a step in any engineering process. You can screw it up by doing either too much.

Outsourcing is still a perfectly applicable term for something that was never done in house. Either way, that's just semantics, which is a very boring thing to argue about. Call it subcontracting if you'd like. My underlying point was just that it's not an unknown or foreign concept. Otherwise, I agree with you. Everybody has to decide what to do themselves and what to get from others. Maybe Vector is relying too much on external suppliers, but that's not really an unusual situation for a startup of their size.

Offline JH

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 282
  • Liked: 142
  • Likes Given: 60
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #746 on: 01/26/2018 06:00 AM »
For the future, it will save a lot of confusion if you just say something like "purchasing all major subsystems from various different vendors with little to nothing built in-house" I don't think there is a term for this or a need for one.

I've seen this referred to as an organization being a systems integrator rather than a manufacturer.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6442
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 6094
  • Likes Given: 1792
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #747 on: 02/03/2018 07:12 PM »
Quote
Our @vectorspacesys B0.003 vehicle being readied in our new factory in #Tucson for flight later in March testing multiple subsystems including fairings, avionics, and thrust vector control systems on a suborbital flight.  Stay tuned !

https://twitter.com/jamesncantrell/status/959879747084800000

Offline Craftyatom

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Software!
  • Arizona, USA
  • Liked: 337
  • Likes Given: 1825
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #748 on: 02/04/2018 05:46 PM »
Quote
Our @vectorspacesys B0.003 vehicle being readied in our new factory in #Tucson for flight later in March testing multiple subsystems including fairings, avionics, and thrust vector control systems on a suborbital flight.  Stay tuned !
Finally, the TVC we've been waiting for.  No more slanting off the rail!
All aboard the HSF hype train!  Choo Choo!

Offline Space Ghost 1962

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2783
  • Whatcha gonna do when the Ghost zaps you?
  • Liked: 2903
  • Likes Given: 2249
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #749 on: 02/05/2018 05:06 PM »
Apparently with RL's success, Vector can't "go slow" anymore. They have to field something that resembles an orbital LV. Good.

Oh, and BTW, before SX had Dragon and Merlin's turbopump in house, they contracted out for things. (Prototype of Dragon built entirely by another firm.)

Musk thinks you just get it done somehow first, and then you make decisions as to how you'll do it later. FWIW.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6442
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 6094
  • Likes Given: 1792
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #750 on: 02/14/2018 03:16 PM »
Quote
Vector Announces Five Orbital Launch Reservation with Open Cosmos
Nanosatellite launch company and space mission provider announce launch agreement

TUCSON, Ariz., Feb. 14, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Vector, a nanosatellite launch company comprised of new-space and enterprise software industry veterans from SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, McDonnell Douglas, Boeing, Sea Launch and VMware and Open Cosmos, a space mission provider, today announced an agreement to reserve five orbital launches between 2019 and 2023 on the Vector-R launch vehicle. The announcement comes in advance of Vector's first orbital launch in July.

"This agreement with Open Cosmos continues our ongoing efforts to partner with a broad network of customers, and signals the start of a new frontier for Vector as we prepare for our first orbital mission this summer," said Jim Cantrell, CEO and co-founder of Vector. "Open Cosmos' mission to provide simple and affordable access to space is one that very closely aligns with Vector's, and we look forward to having them along our journey as we continue breaking down the barriers to access space faced by many."

Based in the United Kingdom, Open Cosmos provides end-to-end mission services enabling its clients to focus on in-orbit data. This one-stop-shop to orbit allows companies to have dedicated nanosatellite missions for remote sensing payloads, IoT/telecommunication services, scientific research, or space technology in-orbit demonstrations. Open Cosmos manufactures its satellites in-house, procures launch services from partners like Vector, and operates qbee fleets using its own satellite operations system while leveraging existing ground segment infrastructure.

"This agreement secures our ability to provide dedicated, affordable launch options to our customers," said Rafel Jorda-Siquier, CEO and founder of Open Cosmos. "Following the qbee nanosatellite deployment in LEO early April 2017, we've been building a strong commercial pipeline of customers looking to get their payload to orbit and start generating revenues fast and under budget. Vector's launch cadence and aggressive prices allows us to provide increased affordable schedule certainty to our time-to-market sensitive customers."

Vector will begin construction on its state-of-the-art rocket factory in Pima County, Ariz. later this year, designed to produce up to 100 launch vehicles per year to start. Throughout 2018, Vector will be testing major elements of its Vector-R launch vehicle leading up to the July orbital launch.

To learn more about the Vector-R launch vehicle, visit https://vector-launch.com/vector-r/

About Vector

Founded by the original founding team of SpaceX, Vector is a disruptive company that connects space startups and innovators with dedicated, affordable and reliable launch services, enabling platforms and vehicles to access space efficiently and in a more optimized way than ever before possible. For more information, visit http://www.vectorspacesystems.com/

About Open Cosmos

Driven by the vision of making space accessible to anyone, Open Cosmos provides affordable, fast, and simple space missions. We went from design to delivery of QB01, our first nanosatellite, in only four months, followed by a launch and deployment in LEO early April 2017. Open Cosmos is currently developing the next generation of satellites and end-to-end services for commercial and institutional customers to be launched in 2018. For more information visit https://open-cosmos.com/

SOURCE Vector

Related Links

http://www.vectorspacesystems.com

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vector-announces-five-orbital-launch-reservation-with-open-cosmos-300598391.html
« Last Edit: 02/14/2018 03:18 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6442
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 6094
  • Likes Given: 1792
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #751 on: 02/15/2018 02:01 PM »
Quote
Cantrell: more people interested in our Vector-H (170 kg to orbit) vs Vector-R (65 kg), so trying to accelerate work on that. #CDSmallSat18
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/964140504303718400

Quote
Cantrell: we set up in Tucson so I can hire people from Raytheon, which builds missiles there; they know how to build items in large numbers. #CDSmallSat18
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/964141676989206528

Quote
Cantrell: first flight in third quarter, officially July. Still working on FAA approvals. #CDSmallSat18
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/964143060916539394

Quote
Cantrell: first launch will be from Kodiak, Alaska. Will have a small test payload on it. #CDSmallSat18
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/964144017909911553

Quote
Cantrell: breaking ground on new factory in Tucson in July. #CDSmallSat18
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/964144230443646976

Quote
Cantrell: maybe five percent of the small launch vehicle startups will survive, but there should be plenty of market for them. #CDSmallSat18
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/964144783622049798

Quote
Cantrell: would be interested in launching from Canada, if there’s access to a launch range and licensing authority. #CDSmallSat18
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/964145620146704384

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6442
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 6094
  • Likes Given: 1792
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #752 on: 02/23/2018 02:03 PM »
Quote
Tucson Tech: Vector inks deal for five orbital launches

David Wichner Arizona Daily Star Feb 21, 2018 Updated 13 hrs ago

Tucson-based small-satellite launch startup Vector has inked an agreement with a United Kingdom-based company for five orbital launches on its Vector-R rocket between 2019 and 2023.

Vector co-founder and CEO Jim Cantrell said the agreement with Open Cosmos, a space-launch services company, aligns with his company’s aim of providing simple, low-cost launch solutions for small-satellite customers.

http://tucson.com/business/tucson-tech-vector-inks-deal-for-five-orbital-launches/article_37bda926-58d2-573a-85e9-6cb77040b93c.html

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6442
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 6094
  • Likes Given: 1792
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #753 on: 03/08/2018 03:17 PM »
Quote
Vector to Conduct Dedicated Launch of Alba Orbital PocketQube Satellites on First Orbital Attempt
In advance of orbital launch, nanosatellite launch company and PocketQube spacecraft manufacturer unite to democratize access to space

News provided by
Vector
11:01 ET

TUCSON, Ariz., March 8, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Vector, a nanosatellite launch company comprised of new-space and enterprise software industry veterans from SpaceX, Virgin Galactic, McDonnell Douglas, Boeing, Sea Launch and VMware, today announced it will conduct a dedicated launch of two PocketQube satellites using an Alba Orbital deployer (AlbaPOD) on the Vector-R launch vehicle later this year from the Pacific Spaceport Complex – Alaska (PSCA) in Kodiak. Alba Orbital, a manufacturer of PocketQube satellites, will launch the Unicorn-2a satellite platform and a satellite developed by Delft University of Technology, Delfi-PQ1. The launch itself marks a historic moment for both Vector and Alba Orbital as its first orbital launch attempt and the world's first PocketQube dedicated launch.

"Launch continues to be one of the biggest challenges for our customers, and Vector's dedicated launch services provide them the ability to lower both risk and the cost associated with it," said Jim Cantrell, CEO and co-founder of Vector. "The PocketQube movement in the satellite industry is a perfect example of how entrepreneurs are coming together to remove as many barriers as possible for those looking to get to space, which aligns perfectly with Vector's mission. We are excited to have Alba Orbital onboard as our first orbital customer and excited to be launching the world's first PocketQube exclusive launch."

Glasgow, Scotland-based Alba Orbital offers low-cost, turnkey access to space through the development of PocketQube satellites. The advanced 3p PocketQube satellite platform, Unicorn-2, will allow payloads with more demanding requirements to fly on a PocketQube for the very first time, helping to save satellite operators more than 50% on hardware and launch. Delfi-PQ1, developed by Delft University of Technology is focused on further proving the capabilities of space technology miniaturization through a standardized core platform and will be deployed by Alba Orbital in their 6p AlbaPod. By providing enabling platforms, parts and technical expertise to global companies, universities and space agencies, Alba Orbital helps to break down barriers faced by space entrepreneurs.

"At Alba Orbital, we aim to provide our customers with the lowest possible turnkey access to space, and offering dedicated, affordable PocketQube satellites is a significant step in the right direction," said Tom Walkinshaw, CEO of Alba Orbital. "Working alongside Vector is a natural fit, providing both organizations the ability to deliver on our customers' needs, and move closer to ubiquitous access to space."

Vector recently submitted its first launch application to the Federal Aviation Administration to enable orbital launching from the Pacific Spaceport Complex – Alaska in Kodiak, marking a key milestone toward Vector's goal of establishing multiple launch facilities throughout the United States and beyond. Throughout this year, Vector plans to test major elements of its Vector-R launch vehicle in advance of its orbital launch.

To learn more about the Vector-R launch vehicle, visit https://vector-launch.com/vector-r/
To find out more about Alba Orbital's platforms and services, visit http://www.albaorbital.com/

About Vector
Founded by the original founding team of SpaceX, Vector is a disruptive company that connects space startups and innovators with dedicated, affordable and reliable launch services, enabling platforms and vehicles to access space efficiently and in a more optimized way than ever before possible. For more information, visit http://www.vectorspacesystems.com/

About Alba Orbital
Based in Glasgow, Scotland, Alba Orbital wants to get more people building and launching their own satellites. We provide a hub of support for the fledgling class of PocketQube satellites by not only building our own platforms but providing parts and technical expertise to companies, universities and space agencies around the world. PocketQubes are 5cm cubed spacecraft, proposed by Prof Bob Twiggs of Morehead State University (formerly Stanford). The first 4 PocketQubes made orbit on the 21st of November 2013. For more information visit http://www.albaorbital.com/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vector-to-conduct-dedicated-launch-of-alba-orbital-pocketqube-satellites-on-first-orbital-attempt-300610673.html

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6442
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 6094
  • Likes Given: 1792
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #754 on: 03/08/2018 06:24 PM »
Hostage to fortune anyone?  :)

Quote
Vector founder: “100 percent” confident in first orbital launch this year
"Not to pick on them, but we don't work on SpaceX schedules."

by Eric Berger - Mar 8, 2018 4:32pm GMT

The cofounder of the Vector rocket company, James Cantrell, said this week that he is 100 percent confident that his Vector-R vehicle will launch this year. This launch will occur from the Kodiak Launch Complex in Alaska, carrying a payload of two PocketQube satellites and an Alba Orbital deployer.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/03/vector-founder-100-percent-confident-in-first-orbital-launch-this-year/

Edit to add: next suborbital test launch planned to be

Quote
... to about 10,000 feet in late March or April in Mojave, California. That will serve to test the vehicle's thrust vector control, the payload fairing, and a new version of the flight computer software among other things, Cantrell said. After that, he believes Vector will be ready to attempt an orbital flight.
« Last Edit: 03/08/2018 06:31 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Davidthefat

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 189
  • Rockets are life.
  • Los Angeles, California
  • Liked: 68
  • Likes Given: 21
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #755 on: 03/08/2018 07:20 PM »
Confident that it will "launch". Doesn't even mean it will get close to space; getting 10 feet off the pad will be considered a "launch".

Offline john smith 19

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7548
  • Everyplaceelse
  • Liked: 1155
  • Likes Given: 7717
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #756 on: 03/08/2018 07:33 PM »
I've seen this referred to as an organization being a systems integrator rather than a manufacturer.
Also the less kind "Hollowing out" as a business looses any independent ability to do stuff on its own.  :(
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C apply. Believe no one. Run your own numbers. So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8643
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3562
  • Likes Given: 840
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #757 on: 03/08/2018 09:28 PM »
Quote
But first, you have to launch the first one successfully. Doing so this year would send a strong signal to the industry.

Well, that's true.
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline john smith 19

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7548
  • Everyplaceelse
  • Liked: 1155
  • Likes Given: 7717
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #758 on: 03/09/2018 06:43 AM »
Confident that it will "launch". Doesn't even mean it will get close to space; getting 10 feet off the pad will be considered a "launch".
True, and it will supply them with a bunch of data they didn't have before.

It will also be a lot further than some of their competitors will manage.

I've always quite liked the line that "Every failure is a dress rehearsal for success."

The downside is of course if it falls back to the pad and they have to rebuild that as well.  :( Let's see what happens. 
BFS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of flying in Earth and Mars atmospheres. BFR. The worlds biggest Methane fueled FFORSC engined CFRP structured booster for BFS. First flight to Mars by end of 2022. Forward looking statements. T&C apply. Believe no one. Run your own numbers. So, you are going to Mars to start a better life? Picture it in your mind. Now say what it is out loud.

Offline Bananas_on_Mars

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 142
  • Liked: 83
  • Likes Given: 14
Re: Vector Space Systems
« Reply #759 on: 03/09/2018 06:58 AM »
Confident that it will "launch". Doesn't even mean it will get close to space; getting 10 feet off the pad will be considered a "launch".
True, and it will supply them with a bunch of data they didn't have before.

It will also be a lot further than some of their competitors will manage.

I've always quite liked the line that "Every failure is a dress rehearsal for success."

The downside is of course if it falls back to the pad and they have to rebuild that as well.  :( Let's see what happens.
There's not a lot of downside to it falling back on the pad. They are launching from a trailer, and the pad itself is not more than a flat piece of concrete. They already have their second generation for the trailer under construction.
If something fiery happens on the pad, you need a bulldozer to push the burnt junk of the way and you should be good to go with a new trailer. That's an mobile ICBM kind of approach.

Tags: