Author Topic: Idea: Bigelow hab as ISS lifeboat to increase ISS crew (Read 10603 times)

Robotbeat · « **Reply #20 on:** 04/12/2016 05:07 pm »

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 04/12/2016 04:34 pm

BA330 as a free flyer can position its self to maximize its solar arrays and radiators. How does it accomplish this when attached to ISS.?

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How did Shuttle position itself to maximize its radiators? And yet, it still was able to reject heat sufficiently to support a surge crew on ISS.

A_M_Swallow · « **Reply #21 on:** 04/12/2016 05:54 pm »

The Ba-330 has two docking ports so it could be fitted with a CBM to attach to the ISS and an IDSS for docking a visiting vehicle like a Dragon, Dream Chaser or CST-100.

Jim · « **Reply #22 on:** 04/12/2016 06:58 pm »

Quote from: Coastal Ron on 04/12/2016 03:02 pm

Quote from: Jim on 04/12/2016 12:34 pm
Because you don't understand the conop.

Dragging a heatshield around with you just in case you have to leave your main vessel is not the best use of mass. Carrying a space-only vehicle like a BA330 that can serve multiple purposes is a much better use of mass.

Quote
Orion is the crew delivery vehicle, crew return vehicle, safe haven (not a life boat) and backup command center.

In an Apollo-style single-stick mission mode, sure, the Orion could be used for many things. But that is Apollo-style thinking, and not a practical way to expand humanity out into space.

The BA330 can be thought of as a space-only vehicle like the ISS, and it's able to operate on it's own for needs beyond the ISS. So of course it could be a temporary refuge in case the crew needs to leave the ISS, just like ships at sea take on crew from vessels that are in trouble. What we do on the sea today has a lot of applicable analogies for what we should do in space...

Again, you don't understand the conop (and the comment about the single stick is proof). The Orion is the return vehicle, it needs a heat shield and some independent capability. As the MTV (with Orion) returns from Mars. The Orion with crew and samples, separates from the MTV and sets up for earth entry, leaving the MTV to fly past the earth.

Jim · « **Reply #23 on:** 04/12/2016 07:03 pm »

Quote from: Robotbeat on 04/12/2016 05:07 pm

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 04/12/2016 04:34 pm
BA330 as a free flyer can position its self to maximize its solar arrays and radiators. How does it accomplish this when attached to ISS.?

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 6030X using Tapatalk
How did Shuttle position itself to maximize its radiators? And yet, it still was able to reject heat sufficiently to support a surge crew on ISS.

It was powered down the minimum state. Fuel cell electrical production was based on LH2 boil off rate. The rest of the power came from the ISS and the station was provided ECS functions. There was little need for the shuttle radiators. And I bet they shunted off to provide minimal cooling too.

Jim · « **Reply #24 on:** 04/12/2016 07:05 pm »

Quote from: Robotbeat on 04/12/2016 02:43 pm

Just like with Shuttle, there could be experiments on board the BA-330 itself for the astronauts to work on.

They were brought over to the ISS and not worked on while in the shuttle.

Bob Shaw · « **Reply #25 on:** 04/12/2016 07:33 pm »

Quote from: A_M_Swallow on 04/12/2016 06:57 am

There is a bit of irony in this thread. One of the reasons for attaching the first BA-330 to the ISS is so that the ISS can act as a lifeboat for the BA-330. The new designs of life support in the BA-330 will need debugging.

A hull breach or breakdown in life support or release of toxic gas can cause a spacestation to be evacuated - until repaired.

In practice both spacestations become lifeboats to each other, providing the connecting docking port is kept clear.

The ISS would be the lifeboat for the untried BA-330, rather than the other way round. Think of it as a large BEAM, except with some brave people in it, probably with the doors shut 99% of the time. You could sim the trans-Mars coast, try out life-support, look at human habitation factors, and even get real-world numbers. Co-orbital with the ISS makes a lot of sense, permanent docking would be somewhat more difficult in my view. An even better idea would be a joint flight with the Chinese. Oh, and orbital inclinations are potentially the deal-breaker for both the ISS and Chinese!

nadreck · « **Reply #26 on:** 04/12/2016 09:14 pm »

Bigelow did mention the possibility of having a period with one BA-330 attached to the ISS for a period of time, then separating. Separately he mentioned docking to BA-330's together to form a station. If you combine those thought threads: prove the ECLSS system of the first module over several months, make any needed tweaks to the 2nd one, launch it, unberth the first, berth them to each other to form a station with presumably at least two docking ports in total, then use the docking ports for logistics and crew transfers.

BrightLight · « **Reply #27 on:** 04/13/2016 03:49 am »

I didn't think their was much use for the BA330 on ISS but after reading some posts, I have changed my mind. I don't think the BA330 has been proposed as a cis-lunar habitat but it could serve as a test-bed for an independent 4 or 6 man crew; i.e. ECLSSS, power systems, logistics operations etc. attached to the ISS, then as a free-flyer. It could serve also as a crew quarters for a 6 man ISS crew and allowing the ISS to remove the existing crew quarters from the nodes etc. and utilizing that space for science and engineering racks as well as having a proper crew space. All this is dependent upon NASA wanting this, a budget for it and BA willing to build a substantial portion of the module on their funds.

Hotblack Desiato · « **Reply #28 on:** 04/13/2016 07:40 am »

Quote from: nadreck on 04/12/2016 09:14 pm

Bigelow did mention the possibility of having a period with one BA-330 attached to the ISS for a period of time, then separating. Separately he mentioned docking to BA-330's together to form a station. If you combine those thought threads: prove the ECLSS system of the first module over several months, make any needed tweaks to the 2nd one, launch it, unberth the first, berth them to each other to form a station with presumably at least two docking ports in total, then use the docking ports for logistics and crew transfers.

The downside of this system is, that it leaves a brand new spacestation on that less than optimal inclined ISS-orbit. The upside is, that such an orbit is a very interesting location for touristical and earth monitoring applications.

A_M_Swallow · « **Reply #29 on:** 04/13/2016 08:45 pm »

Quote from: Hotblack Desiato on 04/13/2016 07:40 am

The downside of this system is, that it leaves a brand new spacestation on that less than optimal inclined ISS-orbit. The upside is, that such an orbit is a very interesting location for touristical and earth monitoring applications.

BA-330 are sufficiently cheap that a gateway spacestation can be built in an orbit more suitable for BLEO journeys.