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#920 by Monomorphic on 05 Apr, 2016 00:58
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Surprisingly, I did not see the stretching I predicted with the wedge/pizza-slice geometry.
Here is the wedge/pizza-slice sweep.
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#921 by Rodal on 05 Apr, 2016 01:11
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Surprisingly, I did not see the stretching I predicted with the wedge/pizza-slice geometry.
Because it appears that the fields in that (thickness of the pizza slice) direction are almost constant?
(thickness probably has to be > minimum wavelength for the thickness to matter
Would need to see a view of what they look like...
What are the dimensions of the wedged-thickness pizza slice ? -
#922 by Monomorphic on 05 Apr, 2016 01:23
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What are the dimensions of the wedged-thickness pizza slice ?
Dimensions are in cm. Big-end curve radius is 50cm.
EDIT/NOTE: The pizza-slice geometry dimensions are identical except the 6.25 cm small end width is 12.375cm, just like the big end.
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#923 by Emmett Brown on 05 Apr, 2016 03:54
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TheTraveller
After skimming the forum again, I've seen a lot of talk of complicated test setups - vacuum chambers, air bearings... but with the forces you are talking about, that complexity isn't necessary.
Please, I implore you to whip up a simple hanging rotational test platform like the one I did and show the world the 8mN of force in action!
I've posted a couple videos showing my torsion pendulum's reaction to 10mN and 2mN of force. If you have achieved 8mN of usable thrust, then it will be clearly visible.
10mN
2mN
Test platform -
#924 by Eusa on 05 Apr, 2016 04:10
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Quote from: Rodal
<< the gravitational self-energy of a body contributed differently to its gravitational mass than to its inertial mass. If observed, the Nordtvedt effect would violate the strong equivalence principle, which indicates that an object's movement in a gravitational field does not depend on its mass or composition.>>
Taking vacuum quanta for space-support the matter cause both inertia and gravity. Nordtvedt effect doesn't make sense. -
#925 by watermod on 05 Apr, 2016 04:10
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If tolerances are so fine a microwave frequencies....
Maybe go up a 1000x or more an put the frustum and all on a silicone chip?
With enough powers more just do optics with nano sized arrays of frustums
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#926 by Tellmeagain on 05 Apr, 2016 04:26
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http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDk1Njk0MTI4.html
See this video, which I posted 3 years ago. The title read: "propellant-less microwave thruster advocates must make self propel boat like this to convince us". I used 2mN to pull 1.2Kg in the video. So a 120kg boat powered by Yang's hundreds mN thruster should be able to reach similar acceleration. Three years passed... -
#927 by Tellmeagain on 05 Apr, 2016 04:36
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...
Test platform
I gave you a suggestion when you first posted your experiment, if followed, you could have gotten thrust like Tajmar in no time but you did not want to listen. I am not blaming you. Just to remind you in case your forgot... -
#928 by ThinkerX on 05 Apr, 2016 05:47
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Given the sensitivity of Emmett Browns rig (and looking at the tangle of wires in the pictures) might not Lorentz forces be an issue?
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#929 by zen-in on 05 Apr, 2016 06:24
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Given the sensitivity of Emmett Browns rig (and looking at the tangle of wires in the pictures) might not Lorentz forces be an issue?
I don't think so. It looks to me like he is powering it with AC. -
#930 by X_RaY on 05 Apr, 2016 06:32
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Please ask me for details tomorrow. Bad time... Zzzzz
I was able to get TE012 with the wedge geometry without curved end-plates. Notice the same "stretching."
Just for completeness
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#931 by Rodal on 05 Apr, 2016 12:00
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The Nordtvedt effect is an example of (sometimes unintended) effects predicted by several theories that observations have shown (if it exists) to be exceedingly weak. Thus, what would be useful, for further discussion, would be to see:Quote from: Rodal<< the gravitational self-energy of a body contributed differently to its gravitational mass than to its inertial mass. If observed, the Nordtvedt effect would violate the strong equivalence principle, which indicates that an object's movement in a gravitational field does not depend on its mass or composition.>>
Taking vacuum quanta for space-support the matter cause both inertia and gravity. Nordtvedt effect doesn't make sense.
1) what are the mathematical equations governing your theory. Is it compatible with present observations, or has unintended effects.
2) what is the EM Drive force (as a function of what variables?) that your theory predicts. There are several theories that predict an EM Drive force as a function of experimental variables:
a) Shawyer's
b) McCulloch's
c) Notsosureofit's
that we have used to compare vs. experimental results.
3) how does your theory address the conservation of energy problem. As shown by NSF user Frobnicat and others, the EM Drive might be utilized as a source of unlimited energy, and unlimited delta-V (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v), given the hypothesis of constant "propellantless thrust" at constant power. This would of course constitute a violation of Conservation of Energy.
Assuming that the required overunity speed is achieved, given enough time at constant acceleration, two rotating EM Drives could be used to generate the energy to power the EM Drive itself
Thus, if the claims by Shawyer about the EM Drive's constant acceleration at constant power input are correct, the EM Drive may find faster, more financially rewarding and better application here on Earth to solve our world's energy crisis. -
#932 by Tellmeagain on 05 Apr, 2016 12:19
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Given the sensitivity of Emmett Browns rig (and looking at the tangle of wires in the pictures) might not Lorentz forces be an issue?
We do not know the orientation of his test platform. Furthermore, even if the orientation is not favorable, his Lorentz force is mostly in the vertical direction. -
#933 by Tellmeagain on 05 Apr, 2016 12:21
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Given the sensitivity of Emmett Browns rig (and looking at the tangle of wires in the pictures) might not Lorentz forces be an issue?
I don't think so. It looks to me like he is powering it with AC.
His magnetron is powered with rectified AC so has DC component. But if there is Lorentz force it is mostly in the vertical direction, this is because his magnetron power supply wires are confined in the horizontal plane. -
#934 by Eusa on 05 Apr, 2016 12:58
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I answered on addressing the conservation of energy:
"The energy and momentum are conserved via gravity field by accelerating other bodies. The changes in the gravity field propagates at speed of light."
G-drive warps spacetime so that the vacuum energy quanta stream got thicken in front of the cavity but also sparser at torus-shape rounding it. The balancing of the space means causally that space decrease as warped torus-shape is filled by the cavity-space including standing wave. The G-drive accelerates and the space in respect to other gravitating body is decreasing in front and is increasing behind...
I think that non-absorbing inert medium in cavity (maybe liquid?) could thrust a cavity more effectively. If the cavity is a vacuum, the accelerating matter is mostly the cone-shell. But the vacuum works fine also, hm, maybe even better if the load isn't heavy. The most essential thing is of course the energy that was loaded in the standing wave field.
The math follows the Einstein's version of General Relativity tensor theory. Normally gravity field thickens spherically on way to the center of mass. The ordinary gravity field is formed by space for needs of matter. This man-made field is formed by matter for needs of space. A free body accelerates into the same direction: where the density of vacuum energy quanta ie gravity field is stronger.
My theory gives only the mass-inertia-gravity mechanism for Einstein's theory.
The G-drive simply make the matter of the apparatus think that there is gravitating body near. The amount of space does not conserve. The G-drive generates "temporary mass condensation" in front of the cavity and accelerates towards it.
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#935 by Rodal on 05 Apr, 2016 13:08
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I answered on addressing the conservation of energy:
"The energy and momentum are conserved via gravity field by accelerating other bodies. The changes in the gravity field propagates at speed of light."
G-drive warps spacetime so that the vacuum energy quanta stream got thicken in front of the cavity but also sparser at torus-shape rounding it. The balancing of the space means causally that space decrease as warped torus-shape is filled by the cavity-space including standing wave. The G-drive accelerates and the space in respect to other gravitating body is decreasing in front and is increasing behind...
I think that non-absorbing inert medium in cavity (maybe liquid?) could thrust a cavity more effectively. If the cavity is a vacuum, the accelerating matter is mostly the cone-shell. But the vacuum works fine also, hm, maybe even better if the load isn't heavy. The most essential thing is of course the energy that was loaded in the standing wave field.
The math follows the Einstein's version of General Relativity tensor theory. Normally gravity field thickens spherically on way to the center of mass. The ordinary gravity field is formed by space for needs of matter. This man-made field is formed by matter for needs of space. A free body accelerates into the same direction: where the density of vacuum energy quanta ie gravity field is stronger.
My theory gives only the mass-inertia-gravity mechanism for Einstein's theory.
1) what is the EM Drive force (as a function of what variables?) that your theory predicts ? does your theory predict the constant force for constant power input predicted by other theories (i.e., Shawyer, McCulloch)?
2) If so, given enough time at constant acceleration for the mechanical power to exceed the input electrical power, can two rotating EM Drives be used according to your theory to generate the energy to power the EM Drive itself for space propulsion (no need for nuclear or other sources of power to reach the stars)? Can the EM drive be used here on Earth according to your theory to solve our world's energy crisis? (for example just like we use gravity here on Earth to produce power: i.e. hydroelectric powerplants, without violating energy conservation)
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#936 by Eusa on 05 Apr, 2016 13:31
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I answered on addressing the conservation of energy:
"The energy and momentum are conserved via gravity field by accelerating other bodies. The changes in the gravity field propagates at speed of light."
G-drive warps spacetime so that the vacuum energy quanta stream got thicken in front of the cavity but also sparser at torus-shape rounding it. The balancing of the space means causally that space decrease as warped torus-shape is filled by the cavity-space including standing wave. The G-drive accelerates and the space in respect to other gravitating body is decreasing in front and is increasing behind...
I think that non-absorbing inert medium in cavity (maybe liquid?) could thrust a cavity more effectively. If the cavity is a vacuum, the accelerating matter is mostly the cone-shell. But the vacuum works fine also, hm, maybe even better if the load isn't heavy. The most essential thing is of course the energy that was loaded in the standing wave field.
The math follows the Einstein's version of General Relativity tensor theory. Normally gravity field thickens spherically on way to the center of mass. The ordinary gravity field is formed by space for needs of matter. This man-made field is formed by matter for needs of space. A free body accelerates into the same direction: where the density of vacuum energy quanta ie gravity field is stronger.
My theory gives only the mass-inertia-gravity mechanism for Einstein's theory.
The G-drive simply make the matter of the apparatus think that there is gravitating body near. The amount of space does not conserve. The G-drive generates "temporary mass condensation" in front of the cavity and accelerates towards it.
1) what is the EM Drive force (as a function of what variables?) that your theory predicts ? does your theory predict the constant force for constant power input predicted by other theories?
2) If so, given enough time at constant acceleration, can two rotating EM Drives be used according to your theory to generate the energy to power the EM Drive itself ? Can the EM drive be used here on Earth according to your theory to solve our world's energy crisis?
1) The G-drive force is function of the energy loaded into its standing wave. If there is no loss, one recharging is enough. The temporary artificial "mass" is no inertial mass but a "spacy condensation" (is word 'spacy' any english?
)
2) Two rotating G-drives result the other universe accelerating towards it because of its extra need for vacuum energy quanta. But for conventional needs the effect is very negligible. Yes, if G-drive works, it can be used to solve all energy needs - the orbit of the Earth changes little by little indeed, but we can handle it...
Of course there are many speculative effects as far as it's ensured by tests what effects are real and what is the way the nature do the things when manipulating gravity. -
#937 by OttO on 05 Apr, 2016 13:37
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The following paper could give DIYer some ideas to build their cavity:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1603.07423
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#938 by Rodal on 05 Apr, 2016 13:48
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... Yes, if G-drive works, it can be used to solve all energy needs - the orbit of the Earth changes little by little indeed, but we can handle it...
Thanks for your honest answer that << if G-drive works, it can be used to solve all energy needs >>
It is very puzzling that other people that claim that the EM Drive can provide constant force for constant electric power input discuss projects like interstellar probes and mundane transportation instead of using it to solve the energy crisis, which by any financial consideration should be a much more immediately rewarding financial use, and for which there is a much larger pool of venture capital for funding R&D.
Also, why do people discussing the EM Drive even consider LENR, conventional nuclear power and other power sources when rotating EM Drives themselves could be used to generate the needed power for transportation and propulsion purposes? (if the EM Drive does provide constant force for constant power input, as claimed by Shawyer, McCulloch, etc.) -
#939 by Eusa on 05 Apr, 2016 13:53
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"Why?" is the good question. Maybe it's due to human reaction that people unconsciously know it's all hoax and overestimated hopes...... Yes, if G-drive works, it can be used to solve all energy needs - the orbit of the Earth changes little by little indeed, but we can handle it...
Thanks for your honest answer that << if G-drive works, it can be used to solve all energy needs >>
It is very puzzling that other people that claim that the EM Drive can provide constant force for constant electric power input discuss projects like interstellar probes and mundane transportation instead of using it to solve the energy crisis, which by any financial consideration should be a much more immediately rewarding financial use, and for which there is a much larger pool of venture capital for funding R&D.
Also, why do people discussing the EM Drive even consider LENR, conventional nuclear power and other power sources when rotating EM Drives themselves could be used to generate the needed power for transportation and propulsion purposes? (if the EM Drive does provide constant force for constant power input, as claimed by Shawyer, McCulloch, etc.)
)