...QuoteIn the one big simulation I ran in meep (aero's data, seeshell's design) I found the magnetic field had a ~3x larger energy density impingement on the small end (middle of thread 6). If we follow the same line of reasoning, then thrust should be towards the small end (based on this one simulation). The small and large end plate energy graphics are attached.
Bah. I have to re-create one of the data files to get the exact numbers. It'll take 45 minutes and I don't think I can keep my eyes open that long
Here are the graphic files - I'll post the CSV summation data in the morning...
OK - the 3x number I was doing from memory and wasn't right, but the small end energy is 1.64x the big end. Attached are the CSV files from which the graphics are made. If you open them up in a spreadsheet and add up all the values (press CTRL-A and look at the summary on the bottom right in Open Office or Excel) you can see the total (all numbers are positive). I'm not going for scale here (watts/newtons/etc), just the imbalance in energy. Also note for the big end the area in the spreadsheet corresponding to the square waveguides should be excluded - it's approximately balanced by the other face of the waveguide (I proved this to myself by looking at the data) although even including it shows an imbalance favoring the small end.
Also attached is the POVRay source. I don't expect folks to understand this entirely, but the key equation is on line 112:
#declare tmp_mag_field = abs( VCos_Angle(csv_vector[row][col], z) ) * vlength(csv_vector[row][col]);
VCos_Angle returns a number that is the cosine of the angle between the 3D vector of the H field and the Z vector <0,0,1>; meaning that if the magnetic vector is normal to the plane, you get 1.0 and if it's parallel to the plane you get 0. This is then multiplied by the vector length which is the intensity of the H field at that location.
So: I know this is the correct equation for the thermal energy going into the plane at this location.
However it's also the equation for the diamagnetic energy reflected from the copper.
Yes, that reflection is small (1e-5 for copper) but there is an imbalance and the effect we see in 'anomalous thrust' is also quite small. Note also this doesn't take into account any of the data from the sloped sides.
Diamagnetism is a quantum effect (per Feynman), and so isn't accounted for by equations from Maxwell or Faraday. I don't yet entirely understand the data I'm seeing, but given the same material on both faces (copper) and the same frequency of microwaves (~2.45Ghz) throughout the cavity could this imbalance in diamagnetic reflection produce a mechanical effect? Is the frustum 'standing' or floating on the microwave energy and being shifted in one direction (toward the small end) by the diamagnetic repulsion? If this was a motor, I'd talk about it as a rotor and a stator. In this case, people would like this to be a linear motor (what's the linear motor equivalent term of 'rotor'?) So I'm thinking about this as the EM field being the rotor and everything else (the frustum and its attached spacecraft) being the stator. The EM field generates a linear magnetic impulse and the frustum shifts to compensate.
I can't speak to the general case (yet) only this one simulation result. I don't want this to degenerate into another COE/COM VIOLATION harangue. Yes, that's probably the key issue for the device, but given this one set of data can we say something about it?
One magnetics/Rf question: Is the diamagnetic effect scaled by the frequency? That is: based on the fact that the skin depth decreases with frequency, I might expect the diamagnetic effect to be proportional to the skin depth i.e. the total volume of copper generating the magnetic reflection. I can't find that anywhere, but I don't have any real Rf textbooks - 2 hours on google turned up nothing...
(edit: fixed attachments)
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What do they do with it? The photons were generated by blowing on a ships sail...they originated within the frustum. It can't move itself. Leaves a big problem...one end of the mass has momenta information. CoM needs to balance.
How does CoM balance? Our self generating photon wind keeps the momenta information building on the large end. Momenta builds. The universe is not happy.
Extraction of momenta information from the opposite direction of the large plate to maintain CoM in the mass. It must come from the same type of source...photons...imparting momenta in an equal and opposite reaction. It becomes a sponge. Spooky action at a distance, where disconnected atomic particals change color without apparent information exchange...so with photons? Only these remote photons give up opposite momenta (if they possess it) to allow a balance on the emdrive millimeters or light years away.
So I guess what I'm unprofessionally positing is CoM is responsible for the reaction force, but we are dealing with like photon to photon interactions and not plasma, magnetic or ion effects.
OK, maybe some of you will give me a brown star for this
To conserve momentum the cavity has to move the other way towards the narrow end (note: this needs new physics, MiHsC, not standard).
Just food for thought. While working on the project and waiting for my soldering iron to heat up I admit I was daydreaming what it would be like as a photon inside of a frustum. I was thinking how the actions in a asymmetrical cavity squeezing the photons modes looked like spaghettification in dropping down into a black hole. I realized how the stretching spaghettification in a drive would look just like it.
I'm thinking what other effects would this mirror? Back to soldering and daydreaming, my 2 favorite things (well, maybe a hot tub).
Shell



Just food for thought. While working on the project and waiting for my soldering iron to heat up I admit I was daydreaming what it would be like as a photon inside of a frustum. I was thinking how the actions in a asymmetrical cavity squeezing the photons modes looked like spaghettification in dropping down into a black hole. I realized how the stretching spaghettification in a drive would look just like it.
I'm thinking what other effects would this mirror? Back to soldering and daydreaming, my 2 favorite things (well, maybe a hot tub).
ShellMcCulloch's view?
Imagine you are a string. When you enter the cavity you (the string) are vibrating (imagine the string ripple), as you travel from the injection point to the big end (at a constant speed equal to the speed of light) the frequency of vibration increases (the wavelength of vibration decreases). As the frequency of vibration of the string increases, you (the string) acquire more energy and more momentum. As you acquire more energy and more vibration you experience the very strange Unruh effect: you experience black body radiation. The closer you get to the big end, the higher the frequency (the lower the wavelength) and the more black body radiation you experience. The closer you get to the big end the warmer that everything around you feels: the warmer that th photon gas is.
All that Blackbody Radiation (all those photons at resonant Q) towards the big end result in the EM Drive moving towards the small end to conserve momentum.
Dr. Rodal, I was wondering if you could explain something to me: in the talk Sonny gave at Ames RC he stated "we were able to get about (x) Watts of power into the test article in this configuration". Two things: 1) when he states "configuration" Is he referring to the frequency that would excite the desired mode being test? and 2) "we were able to get"..... Was something preventing them from injecting more power into the frustum at any or some of the given frequencies and their concomitant modes?

Build update: I'm getting very close to being able to run some powered tests. Sorry Dr. Rodal, no self-contained batteries yet. I want to work on a way to hot-swap different frustums, and then start thinking about integrating all electronics and batteries onto the beam. It's not as simple as it sounds!
I built a laser mount for a tripod I had, where I will also mount the IR camera. The laser bounces off a first surface mirror attached to the bottom center of the pendulum beam - and hits the wall opposite approximately 30 feet away.
This system is very sensitive. I will need to wait 15 minutes or more between tests to let the pendulum go back to center (provided there is any movement at all).
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I was thinking how the actions in a asymmetrical cavity squeezing the photons modes looked like spaghettification in dropping down into a black hole. I realized how the stretching spaghettification in a drive would look just like it.
...McCulloch's view?
...
All that Blackbody Radiation (all those photons at resonant Q) towards the big end result in the EM Drive moving towards the small end to conserve momentum....
I looked at it as a black hole doesn't suck you down as much as warped spacetime pushes you into it. By squeezing and spaghettification of the mode it reacts just like it would if there was a black hole at the small end of the cavity. The photons don't know that the spaghettification they are experiencing isn't dropping into a black hole. There is no information they can share with any other part in the internal walls of the cavity because they are at light speed, but they can interact with spacetime as it permeates all space inside the frustum and outside equally.
Spacetime reacts through the closed frame of the cavity and sees it just like it was energy being stretched into a black hole. Since a black hole doesn't pull or suck you in but space pushes you. In the example I posted the Big end would be away from the direction of push.
We know photons are effected by spacetime but can photons effect spacetime and how much is the question.
Shell
Let's stretch the modes a little longer to get my point across.
Or maybe this is why this shape might do better at a frustum?
Build update: I'm getting very close to being able to run some powered tests. Sorry Dr. Rodal, no self-contained batteries yet. I want to work on a way to hot-swap different frustums, and then start thinking about integrating all electronics and batteries onto the beam. It's not as simple as it sounds!
I built a laser mount for a tripod I had, where I will also mount the IR camera. The laser bounces off a first surface mirror attached to the bottom center of the pendulum beam - and hits the wall opposite approximately 30 feet away.
This system is very sensitive. I will need to wait 15 minutes or more between tests to let the pendulum go back to center (provided there is any movement at all).

Are you going to twist the wires to the magnetron, or run it like it is and then twist them?
Shell
SeeShells, I've been running some calculations based on laser traveling inside a cavity, and ploted the electric field x time on each impact point. And apparently, the distortion of the wavelength is the opposite of what you described, the wavelenght is compressed at the small OD.
I'm finishing a paper that will be published in a few days, and according with my algorithm, the EmDrive works indeed, with no secrets, it's just a matter of geometry and equations to get the numbers done.
See the images attached
SeeShells, I've been running some calculations based on laser traveling inside a cavity, and ploted the electric field x time on each impact point. And apparently, the distortion of the wavelength is the opposite of what you described, the wavelenght is compressed at the small OD.
I'm finishing a paper that will be published in a few days, and according with my algorithm, the EmDrive works indeed, with no secrets, it's just a matter of geometry and equations to get the numbers done.
PS. I'm getting thrust towards the small OD.
See the images attached
Greetings from Brazil!
Are you going to twist the wires to the magnetron, or run it like it is and then twist them?
Shell
Twisting the wires torques the pendulum. Maybe I could braid them together with the ground.
Build update: I'm getting very close to being able to run some powered tests. Sorry Dr. Rodal, no self-contained batteries yet. I want to work on a way to hot-swap different frustums, and then start thinking about integrating all electronics and batteries onto the beam. It's not as simple as it sounds!
I built a laser mount for a tripod I had, where I will also mount the IR camera. The laser bounces off a first surface mirror attached to the bottom center of the pendulum beam - and hits the wall opposite approximately 30 feet away.
This system is very sensitive. I will need to wait 15 minutes or more between tests to let the pendulum go back to center (provided there is any movement at all).
SeeShells, I've been running some calculations based on laser traveling inside a cavity, and ploted the electric field x time on each impact point. And apparently, the distortion of the wavelength is the opposite of what you described, the wavelenght is compressed at the small OD.
I'm finishing a paper that will be published in a few days, and according with my algorithm, the EmDrive works indeed, with no secrets, it's just a matter of geometry and equations to get the numbers done.
PS. I'm getting thrust towards the small OD.
See the images attached
Greetings from Brazil!
When applied to problems of electromagnetic radiation, ray tracing often relies on approximate solutions to Maxwell's equations that are valid as long as the light waves propagate through and around objects whose dimensions are much greater than the light's wavelength. Ray theory does not describe phenomena such as interference and diffraction, which require wave theory (involving the phase of the wave).
Are you going to twist the wires to the magnetron, or run it like it is and then twist them?
Shell
Twisting the wires torques the pendulum. Maybe I could braid them together with the ground.I've taken the wires stuck them in a vice (10 ft of wire or so) and connected the other end to a electric drill and pulled tight and then wound them up very tight. After being twisted tight they don't torque but act as one wire.
