Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3  (Read 724011 times)

Offline MarsInMyLifetime

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #300 on: 03/28/2016 04:16 AM »
I believe the barge structure and the octoweb can be considered as a single entity now...

Which can only remind us of these lines from Hudsucker Proxy, "Say, buddy, who's the most liquid businessman on the street? Waring Hudsucker! Say buddy, when is a sidewalk fully dressed? When it's Waring Hudsucker!" "Waring Hudsucker is abstract art on Madison Avenue."
Don

Online Lar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #301 on: 03/28/2016 04:31 AM »
All this wreckage identification stuff is fascinating[1]. But isn't tracking the barge readiness more important? How IS the barge coming along? Any new spy shots of that? How much time do they have left now and what tasks?

1 - I said that with a straight face, honest.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline cambrianera

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #302 on: 03/28/2016 09:27 AM »

IIRC the Octoweb is made of titanium.  Musk discussed the thrust structure of the Falcon 1 as being made of titanium and being sufficiently expensive that its recovery would have by itself justified attempting to recover the first stage.


Still available on SpaceX site, first of updates.
http://www.spacex.com/news/2004/june-2004-july-2004
Thrust Frame The engine thrust frame weight has come in significantly better than our initial baseline for Falcon I. This is due in part to switching from steel to high strength titanium and in part to a better design. Although we are spending more than planned on this piece of equipment, we expect to be able to reuse it essentially forever (i.e. thousands of flights), so long as the stage itself is recovered.

The corner fittings are precision machined and then welded under argon to the gun drilled tubes. The whole frame only weighs 74.8 lbs and is shown below going through structural qualification. We loaded it to 150,000 lbs (almost twice maximum flight load) in the axial direction and applied max gimbal and TVC loads. Nine limit and ultimate load cycles were applied with no indications of yield (strains all returned to zero).


Attached picture saved offline some time ago.

IMHO no relationship with octaweb.
Oh to be young again. . .

Offline OxCartMark

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #303 on: 03/28/2016 12:54 PM »
Interesting, that thrust structure was tested to 150,000 lbf back in 2004 which was then 2x Merlin thrust.  Now Merlins make more than that so it would have been redesigned a bit by now but the basic shape seems the same.  Its upside down to installed direction, the four feet would attach to the vehicle and in my opinion that connection is to the octaweb.  What else is there to connect to?  The geometry of this part is probably one of the things that was commonized when they went from tic tac toe to octaweb layout.  I figger that 8 of the engines use one design of this and the two center engines use another design.

Safe harbor statement (for Lar): The structure described does have an impact on the ASDS.
« Last Edit: 03/28/2016 01:02 PM by OxCartMark »

Online Lar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #304 on: 03/28/2016 02:55 PM »
Safe harbor statement (for Lar): The structure described does have an impact on the ASDS.

"Safe Harbor"??
"an impact" ??

I see what you did there. :)
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online CameronD

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #305 on: 03/28/2016 10:19 PM »
Golly we're wandering from ASDSing and I think I started it.  Whether the thrust is generated here or there in the engine the engine mounts are toward the top of the chamber and their connection to the octaweb is above that level.  The interface with the throat area is only a flexible blanket material.  But what you are calling containment structure may or may not be one and the same as the octaweb and could carry load (and be containment) even if its far below the engine attachment point and far below the tank.  Or not.

I believe the barge structure and the octoweb can be considered as a single entity now...

So.. if they recover a Grid Fin and re-use it on a new stage - does that count??  Maybe SpX should focus on collecting and re-using parts recovered from barge-RUD and work up to recovering a whole stage from there?!?   ::) ;D

Slow days indeed over Easter...  Hopefully someone will post some current photos showing progress sometime soon.

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline thor1872

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #306 on: 03/29/2016 12:59 AM »
Hopefully someone will post some current photos showing progress sometime soon.
new satellite antenna
« Last Edit: 03/29/2016 01:00 AM by thor1872 »

Offline OxCartMark

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Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #308 on: 03/29/2016 01:34 AM »

Hopefully someone will post some current photos showing progress sometime soon.
new satellite antenna
Ah, a certain CyndyC will be delighted...
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Offline CyndyC


Hopefully someone will post some current photos showing progress sometime soon.
new satellite antenna
Ah, a certain CyndyC will be delighted...

Haha, yes, I am THRILLED :)! And they have one on each end now, just as I guessed they might benefit from having. I can easily give up being able to ID the bow for more reliable landing coverage.
"Either lead, follow, or get out of the way." -- quote of debatable origin tweeted by Ted Turner and previously seen on his desk

Offline CJ

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #310 on: 03/29/2016 03:59 AM »
Looks to me like they're doing some upgrades along with the repairs - two sat domes instead of one. I wonder if this will allow two video feeds?

I wonder if there will be a shakedown sortie after these repairs? My guess is they'll want one.


Hopefully someone will post some current photos showing progress sometime soon.
new satellite antenna
Ah, a certain CyndyC will be delighted...

Haha, yes, I am THRILLED :)! And they have one on each end now, just as I guessed they might benefit from having. I can easily give up being able to ID the bow for more reliable landing coverage.

A few easy ways to ID the bow are, if see from above, the name is on the port (left) side. Also, the aft blast wall is where the four leaf clover is. If seen side-on, the bow has the bow wall, which is vertical and all the way forward. And, there are two strakes (?) which look almost like large rudders under the stern. :)


Offline thor1872

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #311 on: 03/29/2016 07:30 AM »
Looks to me like they're doing some upgrades along with the repairs - two sat domes instead of one. I wonder if this will allow two video feeds?
He always had two antennas. ;)

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #312 on: 03/29/2016 10:31 AM »

So.. if they recover a Grid Fin and re-use it on a new stage - does that count??  Maybe SpX should focus on collecting and re-using parts recovered from barge-RUD and work up to recovering a whole stage from there?!?   ::) ;D


Just a point.  RUD is only a term used for an engine coming apart and not a generic term for an accident or vehicle crash.  And it is a Spacex only term
« Last Edit: 03/29/2016 10:31 AM by Jim »

Offline CyndyC

He always had two antennas. ;)

So the bow VSAT is in the center and the stern VSAT is off to starboard, the latter just above the thruster lines that were damaged, and showing damage of its own in Marek's panorama. The bow VSAT appeared undamaged yet was replaced at the same time, probably meaning even though there have been two VSATs all along, there will be improved odds for unbroken reception.
« Last Edit: 03/30/2016 02:47 AM by CyndyC »
"Either lead, follow, or get out of the way." -- quote of debatable origin tweeted by Ted Turner and previously seen on his desk

Online matthewkantar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #314 on: 03/29/2016 03:05 PM »
I can't site a source, but I remember engineers using R.U.D. in the eighties. Musk himself has used the term in a tweet to describe the fate of the returning stage that ran out of hydraulic fluid.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #315 on: 03/29/2016 04:15 PM »
 One antenna can have it's signal interrupted by the returning rocket. Two antenna systems can be completely independent and actually go to different suppliers, be automatically switched if one is obstructed or has other issues, or have simultaneous links on the same sat. They can also be S and Ku since KU is usually better bandwidth and S is better in bad weather. Or, they just might want redundancy. Intellian wouldn't have been my first choice for reliable gear.
« Last Edit: 03/29/2016 04:19 PM by Nomadd »

Online LouScheffer

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #316 on: 03/29/2016 06:07 PM »

Just a point.  RUD is only a term used for an engine coming apart and not a generic term for an accident or vehicle crash.  And it is a Spacex only term
Here is a quote from a government manual, using the same acronym, with the same meaning, for a gun accident in 1970.  (They used "unintentional" rather than "unscheduled", but the meaning is identical.) So RUD has been around for a while, and used for other than engine accidents.
« Last Edit: 03/29/2016 06:17 PM by LouScheffer »

Offline woods170

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #317 on: 03/29/2016 06:07 PM »
Just a point.  RUD is only a term used for an engine coming apart and not a generic term for an accident or vehicle crash.  And it is a Spacex only term

Just a point. RUD is used by multiple folks at SpaceX to describe more than just an engine coming apart (as so aptly demonstrated by a tweet from Elon describing a landing rocket stage coming apart - not just the engine).
Also, it's a pre-existing term, adopted by SpaceX, being used in a thread where the subject is (surprise, surprise!) SpaceX.

Jim, my two cents on this: accept the fact that SpaceX sometimes does things differently (including the use of terms). You constantly pointing out that SpaceX does not (always) adhere to industry standards is symptomatic for the state of denial found in a substantial part of the OldSpace community. Like it or not: SpaceX is disrupting the old state of affairs and that disruption is highly likely to be permanent. Along come several new views and ways of doing things and even new (or, in this case, dusted-off) terminology. Only those folks clinging to the old ways too much will continue to bleat over unavoidable changes.
« Last Edit: 03/29/2016 06:19 PM by woods170 »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #318 on: 03/29/2016 06:35 PM »

So.. if they recover a Grid Fin and re-use it on a new stage - does that count??  Maybe SpX should focus on collecting and re-using parts recovered from barge-RUD and work up to recovering a whole stage from there?!?   ::) ;D


Just a point.  RUD is only a term used for an engine coming apart and not a generic term for an accident or vehicle crash.  And it is a Spacex only term
The U can stand for several things, but the term has been used since the 70s at least.

Online Lar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #319 on: 03/29/2016 06:47 PM »
Arguing over who said RUD first or whether it's standard or whether using it is a sign that you're not OldSpace etc etc....

Is boring.

So let's not. Thanks.

(I was wearing my mod hat when I said that and posts below this line get trimmed)
« Last Edit: 03/29/2016 07:32 PM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

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