Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3  (Read 601871 times)

Offline MarekCyzio

OCISLY on Saturday, 11/5/2017

Offline vaporcobra

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2141 on: 11/05/2017 07:56 PM »
OCISLY on Saturday, 11/5/2017

Gorgeous! Any chance you grabbed a photo a bit further right, where the octagrabber was spotted?
I report on commercial space!

Offline StuffOfInterest

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2142 on: 11/06/2017 10:29 AM »
Great view of Roomba, cropped from a photo from Twitter user @NASANate. Intriguingly, below the roasted Roomba there appears to be something the exact dimensions of Roomba taking a similar octagonal shape.

I'm actually more intrigued by the burn pattern on the deck.  Last rocket came in at quite an angle from the looks of things.  Another photo on the Koreasat update page looks down from above and the burn appears to run right off the side of the deck.

Offline speedevil

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2143 on: 11/06/2017 11:56 AM »

I'm actually more intrigued by the burn pattern on the deck.  Last rocket came in at quite an angle from the looks of things.  Another photo on the Koreasat update page looks down from above and the burn appears to run right off the side of the deck.

There was quite a lot of fire post Koreasat.
Is unclean engine shutdown, spewing all of the remaining fuel on the deck, where some of it flashed into a messy fireball coating a side of the stage, and some ran off on fire also a possibility?

Offline MarekCyzio

There was quite a lot of fire post Koreasat.
Is unclean engine shutdown, spewing all of the remaining fuel on the deck, where some of it flashed into a messy fireball coating a side of the stage, and some ran off on fire also a possibility?

Based on burn patterns on the rocket I would disagree. Looks like a leak from GSE connectors.

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2145 on: 11/06/2017 02:10 PM »
"leak from gse connectors" might also mean "planned safing of tanks through gse connectors".  It just so happens that sometimes the safing procedure seems to result in flames, probably due to some other minor leak/fire/smoldering/etc.

We know that the OctaGrabber fire was caused by purged kerosene running across the deck and managing to find the OctaGrabber garage, so I think that should establish that you can't rely on scorch marks on deck to correlate with incoming flight path.

Offline chrisking0997

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2146 on: 11/06/2017 04:51 PM »
Great view of Roomba, cropped from a photo from Twitter user @NASANate. Intriguingly, below the roasted Roomba there appears to be something the exact dimensions of Roomba taking a similar octagonal shape.

New Roomba, maybe? ;)

that looks significantly beefier than roomba, which AFAIK there would be no need for.  I cant think of a practical structure they need to build right now of that size, so Ill throw out the insane suggestion that its a mount to practice landings on
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Offline edkyle99

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2147 on: 11/06/2017 05:05 PM »
There was quite a lot of fire post Koreasat.
Is unclean engine shutdown, spewing all of the remaining fuel on the deck, where some of it flashed into a messy fireball coating a side of the stage, and some ran off on fire also a possibility?

Based on burn patterns on the rocket I would disagree. Looks like a leak from GSE connectors.
To me, it looks like kerosene leaking from an engine, some pooling on the deck but most burning off in what was a stiff wind at the time.  Flames were blown sideways and crept up the lee (down-wind) side of the stage.  I'm not sure any propellant connections are made at the ground connection on that side.

Better handling this residual burn-off problem is going to take some creative engineering.

 - Ed Kyle 
« Last Edit: 11/06/2017 05:07 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline MarekCyzio

It may be coincidence, but location of all of these GSE connectors and burn marks seem to match:
https://flic.kr/p/2198piy

Offline edkyle99

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2149 on: 11/07/2017 04:08 PM »
It may be coincidence, but location of all of these GSE connectors and burn marks seem to match:
https://flic.kr/p/2198piy
The question we need answered is "what goes through those connectors"?  I would expect helium for sure.  Maybe some hydraulics.  Some electrical probably.  Maybe kerosene, I'm starting to believe, because I have yet to see any other umbilical connected to the first stage fuel tank in photos. 

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 11/07/2017 04:09 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline old_sellsword

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SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2150 on: 11/07/2017 04:23 PM »
It may be coincidence, but location of all of these GSE connectors and burn marks seem to match:
https://flic.kr/p/2198piy
The question we need answered is "what goes through those connectors"?  I would expect helium for sure.  Maybe some hydraulics.  Some electrical probably.  Maybe kerosene, I'm starting to believe, because I have yet to see any other umbilical connected to the first stage fuel tank in photos. 

 - Ed Kyle

There are two of those connectors placed 180° from each other. The one on the “front” transfers the LOX, and the one on the “back” transfers RP-1 (this is the one in Marek’s picture he linked). They both have other connections for at least Helium and probably other fluids and electrical.
« Last Edit: 11/07/2017 04:25 PM by old_sellsword »

Offline edkyle99

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2151 on: 11/07/2017 08:44 PM »
Here's a short video I made of the post-landing fire.  I still think I see flames coming first from an engine nozzle.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2152 on: 11/07/2017 09:36 PM »
Here's a short video I made of the post-landing fire.  I still think I see flames coming first from an engine nozzle.

 - Ed Kyle
Purging residual kerosene would be through the nozzle, no?  So the nozzle is the least surprising place I'd expect to see the flames begin.

Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2153 on: 11/07/2017 10:45 PM »
Purging residual kerosene would be through the nozzle, no?  So the nozzle is the least surprising place I'd expect to see the flames begin.

Actually, kerosene would be the one thing I would think they wouldn't purge.  Two reasons: (a) an oil slick on the ocean would be frowned upon by the ever-watchful greenies and (b) an oil slick on deck could potentially stop the Roomba 'sticking' and would also be extremely hazardous to the boarding crew.

I'd say they got a stuck valve someplace on the stage...

 
« Last Edit: 11/07/2017 10:47 PM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline envy887

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2154 on: 11/07/2017 11:10 PM »
Purging residual kerosene would be through the nozzle, no?  So the nozzle is the least surprising place I'd expect to see the flames begin.

Actually, kerosene would be the one thing I would think they wouldn't purge.  Two reasons: (a) an oil slick on the ocean would be frowned upon by the ever-watchful greenies and (b) an oil slick on deck could potentially stop the Roomba 'sticking' and would also be extremely hazardous to the boarding crew.

I'd say they got a stuck valve someplace on the stage...

Plus pouring fuel everywhere is just a really bad idea in general.

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2155 on: 11/08/2017 12:53 AM »
Could it be that residual kerosene is usually deliberately burned off in the engine... But somehow that process has gone a bit awry? (Maybe a stuck valve, maybe a leak, maybe just strong wind or unexpected pooling.)

Or do we think the ASDS brings in S1 with several hundred gallons of kerosene still onboard?

Offline MarekCyzio

There is no burning of residual kerosene. The rocket depressurizes its helium and nitrogen copd’s and opens fuel and oxygen tanks to atmosphere. LOX boils off, kerosene stays and gets unloaded when the rocket is put on the stand. The only thing that gets burned is TEA/TEB.


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Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2157 on: 11/08/2017 03:32 AM »
Could it be that residual kerosene is usually deliberately burned off in the engine... But somehow that process has gone a bit awry? (Maybe a stuck valve, maybe a leak, maybe just strong wind or unexpected pooling.)

I'd say they were mighty fortunate they didn't just happen to dump a bunch of residual O2 at the same time.  Fire + Fuel + Oxidiser = the resultant 'bounce' could have been most spectacular indeed!! "Wait, she's off again! Oops!" ;D

Making the most of it, SpX PR Department would probably call it their first "Re-launch Abort Test".
« Last Edit: 11/08/2017 08:55 PM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline MarekCyzio

I went to the port today and noticed GO Searcher has some new hardware installed. Wondering what is it for...

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #2159 on: 11/12/2017 07:23 PM »
I went to the port today and noticed GO Searcher has some new hardware installed. Wondering what is it for...
Is that actually raked toward the camera, or is the top of the rack level with the deck? Seems to be the former, but I can't quite tell.

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