Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3  (Read 712780 times)

Offline ClayJar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #200 on: 03/22/2016 03:58 PM »
I tend not to believe the "bollard cutout" explanation for the gap in the right side of the ribbed yellow sidewall. The bollard cutouts are vertical, but that missing area we see meets the yellow sidewall at an angle, as if torched out.

Also, if that sidewall were not damaged, why would they extend the deck plate cutout beyond that area into the wing?

The bollard cutouts (or should we call them "cleat cuts", since they actually had mooring cleats in them originally, not cylindrical bollards) are trapezoidal when viewed from above.  I believe the angle you're seeing is an artifact of perspective.  I *think* I can discern the other end of the cutout, but there isn't enough resolved detail to say with any confidence.  (Attached is a crop of two cleats in the pre-Panama now-JRtI.)

The deck plate and perhaps original hull sidewall must have been compromised to require that extent of deck work, but I am reasonably confident that what we see in the image is at least primarily the original cutout and not new work.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #201 on: 03/22/2016 05:14 PM »
Quote
The bollard cutouts (or should we call them "cleat cuts", since they actually had mooring cleats in them originally, not cylindrical bollards) are trapezoidal when viewed from above.  I believe the angle you're seeing is an artifact of perspective.  I *think* I can discern the other end of the cutout, but there isn't enough resolved detail to say with any confidence.  (Attached is a crop of two cleats in the pre-Panama now-JRtI.)


You know what? I think you're right, and moreover, in that aerial photo I think I see a cleat right where it should be if that were a "cleat cutout."
« Last Edit: 03/22/2016 05:25 PM by Kabloona »

Offline llanitedave

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #202 on: 03/22/2016 05:19 PM »
CyndyC, there's your (new?) white bubble (VSAT antenna dome) dockside on a pallet, by the bow.

The photographer (Tim Dodd according to the photo watermark, who is presumably the reddit user termderd) commented over there that he was stopped by a policeman and told that drone flying was illegal around the port. So the days of us getting new drone footage of OCISLY may be numbered...


Well, there's always balloons...
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Offline JamesH65

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #203 on: 03/22/2016 05:29 PM »
I suppose its possible that if the wing took a big impact, the support struts may have been pushed in to the hull wall, which could have bent them or perhaps made a slight puncture leak. But the hole seems to indicate the main impact wasn't far enough out.


Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #204 on: 03/22/2016 05:44 PM »
What impressed me, seeing the extend of the work, is how quickly after getting to port actual work has begun.

There had to be damage assessment, repair planning, approval of repair plans, ordering material and equipment, etc...

Each step can be expedited, for sure, but in order to see arcs so quickly, the organization had to be really efficient.
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Offline Ohsin

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #205 on: 03/22/2016 06:32 PM »
I suppose its possible that if the wing took a big impact, the support struts may have been pushed in to the hull wall, which could have bent them or perhaps made a slight puncture leak. But the hole seems to indicate the main impact wasn't far enough out.

So far we have seen extreme localized damage on deck and equipment but never on wings. I think this was discussed previously but can't recall much. Also estimating the nature of damage they could have a prefabricated wing section in store somewhere.. just in case.
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Offline joncz

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #206 on: 03/22/2016 06:41 PM »
Quote
The bollard cutouts (or should we call them "cleat cuts", since they actually had mooring cleats in them originally, not cylindrical bollards) are trapezoidal when viewed from above.  I believe the angle you're seeing is an artifact of perspective.  I *think* I can discern the other end of the cutout, but there isn't enough resolved detail to say with any confidence.  (Attached is a crop of two cleats in the pre-Panama now-JRtI.)


You know what? I think you're right, and moreover, in that aerial photo I think I see a cleat right where it should be if that were a "cleat cutout."


Like so?


Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #207 on: 03/22/2016 06:58 PM »
What impressed me, seeing the extend of the work, is how quickly after getting to port actual work has begun.

There had to be damage assessment, repair planning, approval of repair plans, ordering material and equipment, etc...

Each step can be expedited, for sure, but in order to see arcs so quickly, the organization had to be really efficient.

Well, since SpaceX seems to be trying for an ASDS landing on CRS-8, and since that is currently scheduled for two and a half weeks from now, I'd wager OCISLY will need to leave port in about two weeks.

So, yes, very gratifying to see the speed of the repair.  Also, though, perhaps extremely necessary...
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline ClayJar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #208 on: 03/22/2016 07:22 PM »
Quote
The bollard cutouts (or should we call them "cleat cuts", since they actually had mooring cleats in them originally, not cylindrical bollards) are trapezoidal when viewed from above.  I believe the angle you're seeing is an artifact of perspective.  I *think* I can discern the other end of the cutout, but there isn't enough resolved detail to say with any confidence.  (Attached is a crop of two cleats in the pre-Panama now-JRtI.)

You know what? I think you're right, and moreover, in that aerial photo I think I see a cleat right where it should be if that were a "cleat cutout."

Like so?

The first cutout at the front (pictured above, about where the hull slopes into the water on the bow when unladen) has a pair of bollards, as does the cutout directly at the stern.  Those two are about a foot "deeper" (measured from deck level) than the intervening six cutouts, each of which has a mooring cleat.

(Source: First-hand examination of MARMAC 303 while it was near Morgan City along with 300 and 304 during one of my favorite kayak excursions ever.)

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #209 on: 03/22/2016 07:35 PM »
(Source: First-hand examination of MARMAC 303 while it was near Morgan City along with 300 and 304 during one of my favorite kayak excursions ever.)

You know you're a space geek when "favorite kayak excursion" involves barges and industrial snooping, rather than white water, tall pines and mountain views...

Thanks for all the info you gathered, it's still paying off...
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"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #210 on: 03/22/2016 10:07 PM »
What impressed me, seeing the extend of the work, is how quickly after getting to port actual work has begun.

There had to be damage assessment, repair planning, approval of repair plans, ordering material and equipment, etc...

Each step can be expedited, for sure, but in order to see arcs so quickly, the organization had to be really efficient.

Yes, they didn't mess around. Very impressive indeed!  :)

One possibility is that much of the general damage assessment (photos, phone calls) happened whilst on the way back to land and, once they realised there was structural damage this time, someone-in-charge made the call for help to MD Marine.  Given the size of this operation, it would not surprise me in the least if McD Marine flew a team of barge-builders over with all their gear and were waiting dockside, barge plans in hand, ready to get stuck in as soon as the lines were secure.  There's nothing special about the steelwork - that could have been sourced from anywhere.

Don't forget:  this barge isn't very old at all and it's quite likely the guys that built it originally are still on the tools.


EDIT:  Presuming there was no structural damage to the hull/ribs/keel (and for reasons posted uphill we have no reason to think there is) this is a pretty straightforward repair.  Seriously, it is not nearly as complex as it looks.

« Last Edit: 03/22/2016 10:12 PM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #211 on: 03/22/2016 10:11 PM »
What impressed me, seeing the extend of the work, is how quickly after getting to port actual work has begun.

There had to be damage assessment, repair planning, approval of repair plans, ordering material and equipment, etc...

Each step can be expedited, for sure, but in order to see arcs so quickly, the organization had to be really efficient.

Yes, they didn't mess around. Very impressive indeed!  :)

One possibility is that much of the general damage assessment (photos, phone calls) happened whilst on the way back to land and, once they realised there was structural damage this time, someone-in-charge made the call for help to MD Marine.  Given the size of this operation, it would not surprise me in the least if McD Marine flew a team of barge-builders over with all their gear and were waiting dockside, barge plans in hand, ready to get stuck in as soon as the lines were secure.  There's nothing special about the steelwork - that could have been sourced from anywhere.

Don't forget:  this barge isn't very old at all and it's quite likely the guys that built it originally are still on the tools.

Agreed - It's the only scenario that I can think of that matches what we see.    (Which does hike up the repair price, but as people noted, compared to the cost of a used stage, is still not a bad trade...)

And I assume that the barge builders are pretty stoked about this project...  so the will to go the extra mile was there...
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Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #212 on: 03/22/2016 10:16 PM »
Agreed - It's the only scenario that I can think of that matches what we see.    (Which does hike up the repair price, but as people noted, compared to the cost of a used stage, is still not a bad trade...)

And I assume that the barge builders are pretty stoked about this project...  so the will to go the extra mile was there...

I imagine you're right - this is a 'spare no expense' repair that needs to be completed, to the owner's and ABS's satisfaction, in time for the next launch.  You don't get work like that every day!

..and check out the dock-side picnic shelter for their meal-breaks.  Very civilised indeed!  ;D
« Last Edit: 03/22/2016 10:24 PM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #213 on: 03/22/2016 10:30 PM »
Maybe one of us can get in the yard if we offer to man the BBQ grill... :)

Offline OxCartMark

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #214 on: 03/23/2016 12:28 AM »
I think what we need is to modify one of those huge container unloading cranes in the background to have a bargestalker observation platform, bar & grille suspended on it.  Perhaps it would have a small section of grandstand seating in the floating patio area outside the main cabin or building.  We could hover over or around any part of the ASDS without bothering them a bit.  They'd probably actually encourage us to hover over them to provide shade in the Florida summer.  Win-win.  And we could run it all the way up to have a great view of launches.  This really isn't as far fetched as you might think since (as you can see in the latest overhead images) the tracks for those cranes go all the way to the front of the ASDS.

Offline dorkmo

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #215 on: 03/23/2016 01:00 AM »
lol we are spoiled rotten! drone videos and HD pictures!? back in my day you had to get your drone ship kicks from a grainy webcam video that only worked 2 days a week.

Offline Ohsin

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #216 on: 03/23/2016 04:09 AM »
But it was clockwork regular with 10 hrs of live feed from vantage point!  :-\
« Last Edit: 03/23/2016 04:11 AM by Ohsin »
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Offline MarekCyzio

I heard Police cracked down on drone flying in Port Canaveral - people were issued tickets + reported to FAA (restricted airspace).

I was there last night watching Atlas V launch - there was a lot of activity at SpaceX barge. Cranes moving, welding etc. At 11 PM - looks like they are working 24x7.

Offline OxCartMark

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #218 on: 03/23/2016 01:11 PM »
(restricted airspace)
Anyone care to delve into the truthiness of this restricted airspace?  Restricted by FAA?  Restricted by local ordinance? Restricted by port authority (is that possible on mostly non-port side of the waterway?) Restricted only in the minds of the police?

And what are the limits of its restrictedness?  For instance, if you moved another 100' off of that property would it be OK?

I wonder if it was SpaceX that pushed for this?.

Offline rettenet

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #219 on: 03/23/2016 01:15 PM »
(restricted airspace)
Anyone care to delve into the truthiness of this restricted airspace?  Restricted by FAA?  Restricted by local ordinance? Restricted by port authority (is that possible on mostly non-port side of the waterway?) Restricted only in the minds of the police?

And what are the limits of its restrictedness?  For instance, if you moved another 100' off of that property would it be OK?

I wonder if it was SpaceX that pushed for this?.

By FAA apparently. See this reddit comment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/4bgxok/asds_ocisly_aerial_video_march_21_2016_pic_in/d197l6p

Quote
There's not "legislation" exactly, which is to say, congress isn't passing laws specifically blocking off each restricted airspace. That's up to the FAA (although based on authority given by congress). R-2932 is the restricted airspace block over Port/Cape Canaveral and is continuously in effect below 5000'. Above 5000' for that same block is R-2933. Then there are a couple larger zones (R-2934 to the west and north and R-2935 that forms a "C" to the N/W/S of all the above) that are enabled as needed. These would apply to everything that flies. You have to get permission from the airspace's controlling authority, which I believe is the space wing there.
Looks like tomorrow R-2933 is active from 0222 to 0417 and again from 1400 to 1800 (times are Zulu). R-2934 is active tomorrow from 0222 to 0417. I recall hearing something about R-2935 rarely being activated (only for manned flight or something like that?).
You can checkout special use airspaces at the FAA website here: https://sua.faa.gov/sua/siteFrame.app
Edit: Oh, right, Orbital is launching at 0315 tonight, so that explains 2933 and 2934 going active from 0222 to 0417.

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