Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3  (Read 815848 times)

Offline hans_ober

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1140 on: 06/10/2016 05:30 PM »
SES-9 really hurt her bad, now she's doin pretty fine I'd say. Just gets a mild scalding from time to time.

Offline philw1776

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1141 on: 06/10/2016 06:12 PM »
But TBH sounds like the CG being a PITA. Given the numbers of wrecks pretending to be seaworthy ships around.

You can bet your life it's not the CG being a PITA but a United States Senator.

Likely so.
Assuming this rumor about the Coasties drydock requirement is true, I'm surprised that Elon didn't bring this up as an impediment in his this Wednesday's meeting with the Secretary of Defense.  Would love to see the SecDef rain down hell on the USCG post meeting.  :)
“When it looks more like an alien dreadnought, that’s when you know you’ve won.”

Offline JamesH65

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1142 on: 06/10/2016 06:17 PM »
I wonder what the crew of the Elsbeth III says when asked; "What do you do?"
..."I work on a tugboat, and we catch rockets." 😏😎

Those guys do an incredible job under difficult conditions.  Maybe NSF can come up with some way, sometime down the road, to let them know how much all of us ASDS stalkers appreciate the risks they take, and the great work they do.

I doubt they'd have a lot of use for an L2 membership (though you never know!), but maybe we can put our heads together and come up with something nice.  Like, organize an NSF get-together down in the Cape area and invite them, or something.  I dunno... just a thought.  :)

No worse than deep sea trawler fishing, working on a rig, running an icebreaker, etc. Most offshore jobs can get pretty unpleasant at times!

Offline MarsInMyLifetime

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1143 on: 06/10/2016 06:48 PM »
This particular type of gig comes with some unique bragging rights. It's not the usual deckhand experience!
Don

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1144 on: 06/10/2016 09:05 PM »
But TBH sounds like the CG being a PITA. Given the numbers of wrecks pretending to be seaworthy ships around.

You can bet your life it's not the CG being a PITA but a United States Senator.

Likely so.
Assuming this rumor about the Coasties drydock requirement is true, I'm surprised that Elon didn't bring this up as an impediment in his this Wednesday's meeting with the Secretary of Defense.  Would love to see the SecDef rain down hell on the USCG post meeting.  :)
We've confirmed that there's nothing nefarious going on, the date of the next scheduled dry dock inspection is as expected and is a matter of public record.  There may have been some scrambling, but there needn't have been.

Offline flyright

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1145 on: 06/10/2016 10:06 PM »
Passing Jetty Park at 11:40 AM EDT


Nice work grabbing those photos for us!

Glad I could put to good use some of my "Bonus Time" in FL. Came here to see the DIV Heavy Launch and was obliged to extend a couple days due to the weather delay.  :)

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1146 on: 06/11/2016 12:42 AM »
Quote
We've confirmed that there's nothing nefarious going on, the date of the next scheduled dry dock inspection is as expected and is a matter of public record.  There may have been some scrambling, but there needn't have been.

Maybe not nefarious, but a source close to the matter says this is definitely unexpected.

McDonough Marine's barge experience is mainly with tank barges, not unmanned (self-propelled?) deck barges, and the source guesses that it may have something to do with reclassification by USCG, along the lines of what cscott has suggested upthread, or a misunderstanding about the inspection requirements that would be levied on the barges after refit as ASDSes.

However, he knows that neither McDonough Marine nor SpaceX saw this coming. And McDonough leases barges for a living, so they know the normal inspection routine. But it looks like the ASDS refits tossed them a curveball they didn't anticipate.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2016 02:38 AM by Kabloona »

Offline CJ

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1147 on: 06/11/2016 02:51 AM »
Quote
We've confirmed that there's nothing nefarious going on, the date of the next scheduled dry dock inspection is as expected and is a matter of public record.  There may have been some scrambling, but there needn't have been.

Maybe not nefarious, but a source close to the matter says this is definitely unexpected.

McDonough Marine's barge experience is mainly with tank barges, not unmanned (self-propelled?) deck barges, and the source guesses that it may have something to do with reclassification by USCG, along the lines of what cscott has suggested upthread, or a misunderstanding about the inspection requirements that would be levied on the barges after refit as ASDSes.

However, he knows that neither McDonough Marine nor SpaceX saw this coming. And McDonough leases barges for a living, so they know the normal inspection routine. But it looks like the ASDS refits tossed them a curveball they didn't anticipate.

IMHO, your source sounds like they know what they are talking about. Thank you for getting this.

Now for some mindless speculation on my part; perhaps it's something to do with the USCG no longer considering the ASDSs (ASDSii?) experimental, but operational? Also, I'm wondering if the late departure could have had something to do with this, such as having to ask for, and get, a temporary waiver?

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1148 on: 06/11/2016 03:03 AM »
Quote
Also, I'm wondering if the late departure could have had something to do with this, such as having to ask for, and get, a temporary waiver?

Have asked that question and am also trying to find out how much of a time window USCG is giving them to comply.

Offline dorkmo

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1149 on: 06/11/2016 03:41 AM »
hard to figure out exactly what rules apply since we dont know what its classed as... but i did see something somewhere about annual inspections being required within the window of 3 months before and after the anniversary due date. so hypothetically it sounds like they might have 3 months left?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/91.27-1#a

here's the request for inspection form.

http://www.uscg.mil/forms/CG/CG_3752.pdf

on page nine of the barge inspection book theres some references to extensions but i guess those dont apply eh?
http://www.uscg.mil/d1/msdCapeCod/docs/Barge840.pdf

Offline speedevil

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1150 on: 06/11/2016 12:34 PM »
More details on the sea-going barge exemption: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-01-09/pdf/2012-30984.pdf

The term *self-propelled* is quite broadly defined; see https://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/tonnage/docs/nvic_11-93_CH-3.pdf ("any vessel with means of self-propulsion, including sails").

On review it seems clear to me that Elon has been correct and the vessel ceased to be exempt as a barge as soon as it was fitted with "means of self-propulsion", even if it was often towed in practice.

In principle, there could be a reason why that does not apply.
If, and only if the barges drive is configured to be able to only stationkeep - it is no more a means of propulsion than an anchor.

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1151 on: 06/11/2016 02:01 PM »
In principle, there could be a reason why that does not apply.
If, and only if the barges drive is configured to be able to only stationkeep - it is no more a means of propulsion than an anchor.

I searched through the regs and did not find any exception of this kind. (Not surprising, "drone ships" are pretty novel.  Most station-keeping vessels are manned.)

And re compliance: there is a mechanism for getting a temporary certificate of inspection, as I cited above, but otherwise no "grace period" defined in law. (Other than the "expiration at sea clauses", which I discussed above.) The "annual inspection" is different from the "drydock inspection", which is described in https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/91.40-3 (the actual section is slightly different depending on the exact classification assigned to the ASDS, but the language is much the same in each).  The "grace period" for drydocking is "two in five years but no more than three years between inspections".

And the ABS records (also cited above, but this is a better link to use; enter MARMAC 304 in the vessel name field) are very clear about the Sept 15, 2016 dry dock due date for OCISLY, which also lines up with 3 years since its initial entrance to service.  So that seems to include the "grace period" already.  The due date is certainly in the very near future but not *that* imminent; no way IMO their late departure was due to that.

(The ABS records also explain my earlier use of a slightly earlier date: the OCISLY was "launched" August 30, 2013 (as I'd discovered from the McDonough Marine page) but "delivered" Sept 16, 2013; the inspection due date is 3 years (minus a day) past the "delivered" date, not the launch date. I'd assumed the initial drydock inspection must have happened at some date earlier than the launch date, but that doesn't seem to be the way the validity period is actually measured.)
« Last Edit: 06/11/2016 02:18 PM by cscott »

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1152 on: 06/11/2016 02:21 PM »
I wonder what the crew of the Elsbeth III says when asked; "What do you do?"
..."I work on a tugboat, and we catch rockets." 😏😎

Those guys do an incredible job under difficult conditions.  Maybe NSF can come up with some way, sometime down the road, to let them know how much all of us ASDS stalkers appreciate the risks they take, and the great work they do.

I doubt they'd have a lot of use for an L2 membership (though you never know!), but maybe we can put our heads together and come up with something nice.  Like, organize an NSF get-together down in the Cape area and invite them, or something.  I dunno... just a thought.  :)

Really?  That is a little over the top.  The risks are not any different than other workers in the business.   Each spacecraft and launch vehicle group has personnel trained for hazardous operations.

Offline Scylla

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1153 on: 06/12/2016 02:23 PM »
Go twins have left port.
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1154 on: 06/12/2016 04:22 PM »
If Elsbeth III's AIS is still turned off Friday morning, can someone try to get a visual? Because if she's still in port by mid-morning, something is wrong. Should have left ~12 hours ago.

Hoping they haven't been shut down by this Coast Guard drydock inspection thing.

If I remember correctly (a very big if) we've always seen some activity with the support ships a few hours or more before a sortie. I've checked on two sites, and both Elsbeth III and Go Quest haven't sent an AIS signal since the 7th.

My guess; either there's a launch delay they haven't announced yet, or OCISLY is mired in paperwork and won't be going out this time.

Looks like your guess of a launch slip was correct. OCISLY left port one day later than expected (Friday vs. Thursday) and the next day (Saturday) a one-day slip was announced. If these were related, they had to have known about the impending slip no later than Thursday in order to make the decision to delay ASDS departure, but for some reason didn't announce it until Saturday.

Suggestions have been made elsewhere that this was due to the NROL-37 Delta IV launch conflict.
« Last Edit: 06/12/2016 04:40 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Wolfram66

latest course and position of Elsbeth III W/ OCISLY
27.7083964,-77.6969556

Offline Helodriver

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1156 on: 06/14/2016 09:01 PM »
While OCISLY enjoys floating out in the deep blue Atlantic getting ready to catch a rocket tomorrow, her sister JRTI floats wharf side in the Pacific with a black veiled friend who sports a familiar silhouette.

Offline rocx

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1157 on: 06/14/2016 10:48 PM »
Does that look more like a Dragon 1 or a Dragon 2? What do you think?
Any day with a rocket landing is a fantastic day.

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1158 on: 06/14/2016 10:50 PM »
Does that look more like a Dragon 1 or a Dragon 2? What do you think?

2.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline Saabstory88

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1159 on: 06/14/2016 11:07 PM »
Does that look more like a Dragon 1 or a Dragon 2? What do you think?

I don't know, I don't see thruster pods, but it's hard to tell. That does look much more like the Berthing adapter than the Docking adapter, so I would vote for it being a Dragon 1.

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