Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3  (Read 807182 times)

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1060 on: 06/09/2016 01:55 PM »
Quote
Could the inspection be done by divers?

Negative, must be drydocked.

Imaginary tweet from Elon: "@USCG, WTF???"
« Last Edit: 06/09/2016 02:08 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Kaputnik

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1061 on: 06/09/2016 02:28 PM »
Would a ship lift do? e.g. one of the other Marmacs...
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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1062 on: 06/09/2016 02:28 PM »


Since JRtI is idle on the West Coast, maybe they would send her up to Oregon first, then send her around to the Cape before sending OCISLY off to drydock, thus maintaining barge ops at the Cape without interruption, but that's only speculation on my part about how SpaceX might minimize impact to Cape ops.
The problem with that though is that Vandenberg doesn't have RTLS ready or permitted yet, so without JRTI, the upcoming launches there (Formost/Sherpa, and 2 Iridium flights) would have to be seriously delayed or expended. I'm curious what kind of timeframe/deadline the CG wants for these inspections? And is there really nothing wide enough on the East coast? If worst comes to it, they could rush JRTI now (as in yesterday) up to Oregon, and as soon as OCISLY is done unloading the Eutelsat core, it would head for the Panama canal. As soon as JRTI is done in Oregon it heads back down to Panama to hopefully make it around to support CRS-9 mid July. Then as soon as OCISLY is done it goes down to support launches from Vandenberg and stays in the Pacific. Tight timeline, but may be doable..

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1063 on: 06/09/2016 02:45 PM »
Quote
I'm curious what kind of timeframe/deadline the CG wants for these inspections? And is there really nothing wide enough on the East coast?

Don't know. They're looking for a drydock big enough on the East Coast for OCISLY. Stay tuned.

Online abaddon

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1064 on: 06/09/2016 03:07 PM »
Since the wings are well above water, could they remove the wings, do the drydock inspection, add the wings back, and get those separately inspected?  Yes, would be an enormous pain in the ass, but probably better than the next best option if no EC drydock big enough can be found.

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1065 on: 06/09/2016 03:10 PM »
This generates a WTF for me... what is the value add of this requirement by the USCG? And why now?
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1066 on: 06/09/2016 03:21 PM »
Since the wings are well above water, could they remove the wings, do the drydock inspection, add the wings back, and get those separately inspected?  Yes, would be an enormous pain in the ass, but probably better than the next best option if no EC drydock big enough can be found.

Many questions, few answers yet. Doubtful your scheme would be practical, though. If no drydock big enough, maybe a ship carrier as others have suggested in past discussions of how to transport barges.

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« Last Edit: 06/09/2016 03:30 PM by Kabloona »

Offline rpapo

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1067 on: 06/09/2016 03:24 PM »
This generates a WTF for me... what is the value add of this requirement by the USCG? And why now?
Just a wild guess, but perhaps somebody put a bug in the USCG's ear regarding the hole punched in the deck earlier this year.
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Online meekGee

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1068 on: 06/09/2016 03:28 PM »
Quote
Could the inspection be done by divers?

Negative, must be drydocked.

Imaginary tweet from Elon: "@USCG, WTF???"
There was an image somewhere of a barge on a bunch of rollers.

Is that an option?
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1069 on: 06/09/2016 03:32 PM »
This generates a WTF for me... what is the value add of this requirement by the USCG? And why now?
Just a wild guess, but perhaps somebody put a bug in the USCG's ear regarding the hole punched in the deck earlier this year.

Possible, but ABS reportedly oversaw those repairs, as well as McDonough Marine, so I'd think it was all done by the book. They did move quickly, though. And word is both barges are to be inspected, not just the damaged one.
« Last Edit: 06/09/2016 03:39 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1070 on: 06/09/2016 03:36 PM »
Quote
Could the inspection be done by divers?

Negative, must be drydocked.

Imaginary tweet from Elon: "@USCG, WTF???"
There was an image somewhere of a barge on a bunch of rollers.

Is that an option?

That was one of the Marmacs under construction or being launched, on airbag (?) rollers. Wings were added later while in the water. Don't know if extra weight of wings now rules out haulout on rollers. Also, clearance/accessibility beneath may be an issue.
« Last Edit: 06/09/2016 03:39 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Doesitfloat

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1071 on: 06/09/2016 03:39 PM »
Something seems "off" with the Coast Guard requiring a dry dock for inspection. They could ask for out of water inspection, but I haven't heard of Inspectors requiring a dock.  It's a barge for gosh snakes; no machinery or tanks other than ballast water. They could pull it out of the water with lift bags an couple semi trucks.

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1072 on: 06/09/2016 03:40 PM »
Quote
Could the inspection be done by divers?

Negative, must be drydocked.

Imaginary tweet from Elon: "@USCG, WTF???"
There was an image somewhere of a barge on a bunch of rollers.

Is that an option?

That was one of the Marmacs under construction or being launched, on airbag (?) rollers. Wings were added while in the water. Don't know if extra weight of wings now rules out haulout on rollers. Also, clearance/accessibility beneath may be an issue.
I figure once on rollers and on shore, you can add jacks.

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Offline Kabloona

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1073 on: 06/09/2016 03:45 PM »
Quote
Something seems "off" with the Coast Guard requiring a dry dock for inspection. They could ask for out of water inspection, but I haven't heard of Inspectors requiring a dock.  It's a barge for gosh snakes; no machinery or tanks other than ballast water. They could pull it out of the water with lift bags an couple semi trucks.

Dunno why, but "drydock" has been specifically requested, and barge owner is reportedly searching for drydocks big enough. If they could just haul the barges out into their yard in Louisiana, they wouldn't be looking around the country for a big enough drydock on each coast.

"Ours not to reason why..."
« Last Edit: 06/09/2016 03:48 PM by Kabloona »

Offline Doesitfloat

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1074 on: 06/09/2016 03:48 PM »
Looked at CG inspection documents: 
-I see confusion-- There is a "dry dock" inspection.  Normal inspection criteria.  But these Barges are new. Something is still a miss unless they missed this inspection when they were built. 

They could still pull the barges out on lift bags; then put them on cribbing for a safe inspection. 
Still this should have been done before they left the Marina the first time.

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1075 on: 06/09/2016 04:00 PM »
I wonder if we're getting related issues confused in our game of telephone here.  What if SpaceX wanted to do a "major" refit of their fleet, that would require a dry dock for inspection *after the modifications were made*.  Then we'd hear roughly the same story: barge owners looking for a dry dock to enable coast guard inspection (...after modifications).

EDIT: on the other hand, this seems to indicate a dry dock inspection is a normal occurrence every 2.5yrs of salt water service:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/31.10-21
« Last Edit: 06/09/2016 04:10 PM by cscott »

Offline AC in NC

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1076 on: 06/09/2016 04:03 PM »
But TBH sounds like the CG being a PITA. Given the numbers of wrecks pretending to be seaworthy ships around.

You can bet your life it's not the CG being a PITA but a United States Senator.

Offline gargoyle99

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1077 on: 06/09/2016 04:21 PM »
There are plenty of East coast dry docks big enough for the ASDS.  I've worked with Ingalls at Pascagoula (many years ago).  Basically, any of the big military ship builders can easily handle the ASDS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_docks

Scheduling them on short notice is another question, and the really big dry docks are very expensive.

Offline Doesitfloat

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1078 on: 06/09/2016 04:26 PM »
I wonder if we're getting related issues confused in our game of telephone here.  What if SpaceX wanted to do a "major" refit of their fleet, that would require a dry dock for inspection *after the modifications were made*.  Then we'd hear roughly the same story: barge owners looking for a dry dock to enable coast guard inspection (...after modifications).

EDIT: on the other hand, this seems to indicate a dry dock inspection is a normal occurrence every 2.5yrs of salt water service:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/46/31.10-21

I agree with you. I had 5 years in my mind for drydock inspections but I'm wrong.
This is probably routine required service.  --But I like the conspiracy thoeries; makes it more interesting. :)

Online launchwatcher

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #1079 on: 06/09/2016 04:28 PM »
Quote
Given how busy the barges are, we might see the next big thing happening on a third vesicle, though who knows what that will be.

Well, things may have to slow down soon.

I'm told by a reliable source that USCG is requesting *drydock* inspections of both barges for permitting. Which means a drydock wide enough to accommodate both barges, with wings, must be located, which won't be easy.

One drydock big enough is rumored to be in Oregon. No word on whether a closer drydock can be found for OCISLY. If she has to go to Oregon for a drydock inspection, that's probably at least 3 months out of action.

Since JRtI is idle on the West Coast, maybe they would send her up to Oregon first, then send her around to the Cape before sending OCISLY off to drydock, thus maintaining barge ops at the Cape without interruption, but that's only speculation on my part about how SpaceX might minimize impact to Cape ops.
Another possibility might be to bring the drydock to the barge - there are a number of  large semi-submersible heavy lift ships out there which could likely do the job.

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