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Russia aims to point its ICBMs at the asteroid Apophis in 2036
by
Prober
on 14 Feb, 2016 14:31
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Russia aims to point its ICBMs at the asteroid Apophis in 2036https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-wants-target-near-earth-012123558.html"Russian scientists are planning to tweak their ICBMs (intercontinental ballistic missiles) to targe
t near-earth objects(NEOs), according to a report by news agency TASS. The news came from Sabit Saitgarayev, the leading researcher at the Makeyev Rocket Design Bureau. The projectiles could be aimed at meteorites measuring 20-50 meters in size. A meteorite is a chunk of debris that can originate from a sun-orbiting asteroid and survives the trip through the atmosphere to reach Earth’s surface.
The Makeyev Design Bureau was established on December 16, 1947. The company specialized in developing long-rockets designed by the OKB-1 (Experimental Design Bureau), which was led by pioneering rocket designer Sergei Korolov. It was under Korolov’s direction that Russia launched the first artificial Earth satellite, Sputnik 1, in 1957, and put the first man in space in 1961. In the mid-1950s, Maketev OKB began developing submarine-launched ballistic missiles. Today, its rockets are used to launch Russian satellites into space."
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#1
by
edkyle99
on 14 Feb, 2016 15:11
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#2
by
Star One
on 14 Feb, 2016 15:13
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I saw this yesterday and didn't bother posting as it just seemed a bizarre proposal. Especially as I thought hitting asteroids with nuclear missiles just resulted in lots of smaller asteroids that are probably more of a menace than the original one.
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#3
by
Eric Hedman
on 14 Feb, 2016 15:54
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I find the article a bit odd as in the line "Russian scientists are planning to tweak their ICBMs (intercontinental ballistic missiles) to target near-earth objects (NEOs), according to a report by news agency TASS." I suspect that getting an ICBM to target Apophis or other NEOs approaching from all sorts of directions, a moving target, is a bit more than a tweak.
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#4
by
RonM
on 14 Feb, 2016 17:28
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I saw this yesterday and didn't bother posting as it just seemed a bizarre proposal. Especially as I thought hitting asteroids with nuclear missiles just resulted in lots of smaller asteroids that are probably more of a menace than the original one.
It doesn't have to be a contact detonation causing destructive shockwaves within the asteroid. Exploding just above the asteroid would cause any volatile compounds to vapourize and impart a thrust. Of course, this requires precise guidance and a target with the right composition.
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#5
by
NovaSilisko
on 14 Feb, 2016 17:33
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I saw this yesterday and didn't bother posting as it just seemed a bizarre proposal. Especially as I thought hitting asteroids with nuclear missiles just resulted in lots of smaller asteroids that are probably more of a menace than the original one.
It doesn't have to be a contact detonation causing destructive shockwaves within the asteroid. Exploding just above the asteroid would cause any volatile compounds to vapourize and impart a thrust. Of course, this requires precise guidance and a target with the right composition.
Even typical regolith would vaporize though, wouldn't it?
Still, I have trouble taking this report seriously. Alarm bells start ringing when I see a phrase as vague as "Russian scientists". Gimme a citation from Roscosmos or any other Russian scientific organization... In this case, it seems like it's just that one guy?
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#6
by
redliox
on 14 Feb, 2016 17:35
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I just hope they do their math correctly. There'd be nothing more counterproductive than pushing the asteroid into a trajectory that hits Earth sooner instead of in a few centuries. Russian rockets seem to be reasonably reliable; their problems always seem to crop up after the payload's in orbit.
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#7
by
nadreck
on 14 Feb, 2016 18:31
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Either you use it as a kinetic weapon with no active warhead, or you need to precisely calculate the detonation progress to within one hundred micro seconds to be effective at all. You can't have an impact fuse the warhead will not detonate before the detonation mechanism is destroyed in the impact at somewhere around 20km/s. There needs to be a completely different guidance system that makes the ICBM an interceptor and space stage for the warhead/kinetic payload to correct its course based on radar or laser positioning relative to the target. The radar or laser positioning needs to be used to trigger an active warhead precisely if there is one.
A. This is not a tweak
B. A regular ICBM warhead would be useless
C. An accurate intercept in the ionosphere by a nuclear device would be an impressive excuse to test an EMP weapon
D. A miss leaves a projectile that will eventually hit the earth most likely (nasty if it is an inert nuke) or maybe you detonate the miss anyway (so it misses but makes a great EMP weapons test anyway)
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#8
by
Phil Stooke
on 14 Feb, 2016 19:02
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"Russian scientists are planning ..."
Russian scientists are studying the idea...
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#9
by
Rocket Science
on 14 Feb, 2016 19:03
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Putin wants to one-up Obama's ARM using the Russian "sledge hammer" approach... This will work out well...
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#10
by
JamesG123
on 14 Feb, 2016 19:27
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Cover story for preparations for repelling the coming Aliun Invasiun.
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#11
by
Prober
on 14 Feb, 2016 21:26
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"Russian scientists are planning ..."
Russian scientists are studying the idea...
we have a the name of Sabit Saitgarayev, anyone know of him?
YEKATERINBURG, February 11. /TASS/. Russian scientists have developed a project of upgrading intercontinental ballistic missiles to destroy near-Earth meteorites 20-50 meters in size, leading researcher of the Makeyev Rocket Design Bureau Sabit Saitgarayev told TASS on Thursday.[/size]More:
http://tass.ru/en/science/855968
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#12
by
Prober
on 14 Feb, 2016 21:31
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The sub article on that same page is very interesting
NeoSheild?
Russian scientists say a nuclear explosion near a hazardous asteroid is a most effective way to prevent its collision with the Earth, t
hough presently nuclear explosions in space are banned. More:
http://tass.ru/en/science/850092
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#13
by
notsorandom
on 15 Feb, 2016 18:40
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Over the last few years robotic observatories have discovered a number of rocks a few days or hours before they impact Earth. They have thankfully been quite small. So it is interesting that this is being proposed to deal with that particular scenario. Other dangerous NEOs would presumably be discovered in enough time that there would be more options available. Still though it seems like the better investment of time and money is a space based telescope to identify and track those NEOs not visible from Earth. That would greatly reduce the number of surprises discovered at the last minute and reduce the need for this proposal while allowing for more flexibility in how to deal with the threat. However I wouldn't expect a defense contractor to be pitching a telescope.
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#14
by
Alf Fass
on 15 Feb, 2016 18:53
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Wiki on Apophis "The pass in late March 2036 will be no closer than about 23 million kilometres (14×106 mi)—and will most likely miss Earth by something closer to 56 million kilometres (35×106 mi).[22]"
That's waaay beyond the delta V ICBM's can achieve.
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#15
by
whitelancer64
on 15 Feb, 2016 19:16
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I saw this yesterday and didn't bother posting as it just seemed a bizarre proposal. Especially as I thought hitting asteroids with nuclear missiles just resulted in lots of smaller asteroids that are probably more of a menace than the original one.
Actually, if it's done a good long time in advance, shattering an asteroid is fine, like a long-range shotgun blast, most of the pieces would miss the Earth. It does create the problem of tracking a whole bunch of small asteroids.
A blast that doesn't break up the asteroid is of course preferable, though might not be possible with "rubble pile" type asteroids.
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#16
by
baldusi
on 15 Feb, 2016 20:38
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Can anyone explain on simple words how does a nuclear blast behaves in vacuum? I understand that most of the destructive power on Earth is due to the overpressure wave. But you don't get such a significant explosion multiplicator on hard vacuum. Thus, I do believe that a near explosion would generate little fragmentation. On the other hand, the impulse for the total energy released would be atrociously low. But since this is my intuition, if someone with deeper understanding of the subject could enlighten us, it would be greatly appreciated.
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#17
by
whitelancer64
on 15 Feb, 2016 21:00
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Can anyone explain on simple words how does a nuclear blast behaves in vacuum? I understand that most of the destructive power on Earth is due to the overpressure wave. But you don't get such a significant explosion multiplicator on hard vacuum. Thus, I do believe that a near explosion would generate little fragmentation. On the other hand, the impulse for the total energy released would be atrociously low. But since this is my intuition, if someone with deeper understanding of the subject could enlighten us, it would be greatly appreciated.
Correct, the atmospheric blast effects of the nuclear detonation (such as are so dramatically shown in nuclear test videos) will be minimal. So the radiative effects are far more important. For an asteroid-deflecting nuclear weapon, you'd want to design it so that as much as possible of its energy is released in the high-energy (X-ray, gamma ray) portion of the spectrum. Ideally, you'd want to have the warhead shaped, so that the majority of the energy of the nuclear explosion is released in one direction, so that less of the nuclear detonation's effects are released into space.
The high-energy radiation would energize the surface of the asteroid and ablate a portion of it away, generating thrust.
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#18
by
RonM
on 15 Feb, 2016 21:19
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Can anyone explain on simple words how does a nuclear blast behaves in vacuum? I understand that most of the destructive power on Earth is due to the overpressure wave. But you don't get such a significant explosion multiplicator on hard vacuum. Thus, I do believe that a near explosion would generate little fragmentation. On the other hand, the impulse for the total energy released would be atrociously low. But since this is my intuition, if someone with deeper understanding of the subject could enlighten us, it would be greatly appreciated.
Even without an atmosphere to create an overpressure wave, a nuclear blast releases a tremendous amount of energy. If detonated close enough to the asteroid, the surface material will vapourize. It has to be in close proximity to the target or the inverse square law will reduce the effects of the energy to the point it will only warm the target.
The Atomic Rockets website has a discussion on nukes in space. It's a resource for SF writers and a good place to find basic information on many topics.
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#nuke
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#19
by
Prober
on 16 Feb, 2016 00:48
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Over the last few years robotic observatories have discovered a number of rocks a few days or hours before they impact Earth. They have thankfully been quite small. So it is interesting that this is being proposed to deal with that particular scenario. Other dangerous NEOs would presumably be discovered in enough time that there would be more options available. Still though it seems like the better investment of time and money is a space based telescope to identify and track those NEOs not visible from Earth. That would greatly reduce the number of surprises discovered at the last minute and reduce the need for this proposal while allowing for more flexibility in how to deal with the threat. However I wouldn't expect a defense contractor to be pitching a telescope.
NASA has a couple telescopes donated from Dod in storage.
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#20
by
joema
on 16 Feb, 2016 01:18
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#21
by
Donosauro
on 16 Feb, 2016 01:34
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Over the last few years robotic observatories have discovered a number of rocks a few days or hours before they impact Earth. They have thankfully been quite small. So it is interesting that this is being proposed to deal with that particular scenario. Other dangerous NEOs would presumably be discovered in enough time that there would be more options available. Still though it seems like the better investment of time and money is a space based telescope to identify and track those NEOs not visible from Earth. That would greatly reduce the number of surprises discovered at the last minute and reduce the need for this proposal while allowing for more flexibility in how to deal with the threat. However I wouldn't expect a defense contractor to be pitching a telescope.
NASA has a couple telescopes donated from Dod in storage.
NASA plans to use one of them for WFIRST, the Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope.
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#22
by
notsorandom
on 16 Feb, 2016 13:23
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Over the last few years robotic observatories have discovered a number of rocks a few days or hours before they impact Earth. They have thankfully been quite small. So it is interesting that this is being proposed to deal with that particular scenario. Other dangerous NEOs would presumably be discovered in enough time that there would be more options available. Still though it seems like the better investment of time and money is a space based telescope to identify and track those NEOs not visible from Earth. That would greatly reduce the number of surprises discovered at the last minute and reduce the need for this proposal while allowing for more flexibility in how to deal with the threat. However I wouldn't expect a defense contractor to be pitching a telescope.
NASA has a couple telescopes donated from Dod in storage.
NASA plans to use one of them for WFIRST, the Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope.
The NEOCam proposal was chosen as a finalist in the latest round of potential Discover missions. A large telescope isn't really needed for that type of telescope so there isn't the need to use the other large mirror NASA got. A NEOCam type of mission is something that the Russian aerospace industry might be able to do. Many of the same technologies they developed for the Spektr-R could be used again. The sensor itself may be tricky to make domestically but they could partner with other countries to get that.
However the proposal to modify an ICBM to nuke an asteroid came from a defense contractor, the Kakeyev Rocket Design Bureau. There is the old saying that when you have a hammer in your hand everything looks like a nail.
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#23
by
Prober
on 16 Feb, 2016 14:57
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Over the last few years robotic observatories have discovered a number of rocks a few days or hours before they impact Earth. They have thankfully been quite small. So it is interesting that this is being proposed to deal with that particular scenario. Other dangerous NEOs would presumably be discovered in enough time that there would be more options available. Still though it seems like the better investment of time and money is a space based telescope to identify and track those NEOs not visible from Earth. That would greatly reduce the number of surprises discovered at the last minute and reduce the need for this proposal while allowing for more flexibility in how to deal with the threat. However I wouldn't expect a defense contractor to be pitching a telescope.
NASA has a couple telescopes donated from Dod in storage.
NASA plans to use one of them for WFIRST, the Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope.
http://wfirst.gsfc.nasa.gov/
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#24
by
whitelancer64
on 16 Feb, 2016 15:29
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Over the last few years robotic observatories have discovered a number of rocks a few days or hours before they impact Earth. They have thankfully been quite small. So it is interesting that this is being proposed to deal with that particular scenario. Other dangerous NEOs would presumably be discovered in enough time that there would be more options available. Still though it seems like the better investment of time and money is a space based telescope to identify and track those NEOs not visible from Earth. That would greatly reduce the number of surprises discovered at the last minute and reduce the need for this proposal while allowing for more flexibility in how to deal with the threat. However I wouldn't expect a defense contractor to be pitching a telescope.
The B612 Foundation has been trying to get their Sentinel asteroid-detecting telescope funded for many years.
The frustrating thing is that most people don't think it's enough of an issue to put money into.
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#25
by
Danderman
on 16 Feb, 2016 20:55
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The general rule is that any news story from the general media that has the words "A Russian scientist said .... " and it is about future plans, well you are wasting your time reading that one.
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#26
by
Eric Hedman
on 16 Feb, 2016 21:04
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The general rule is that any news story from the general media that has the words "A Russian scientist said .... " and it is about future plans, well you are wasting your time reading that one.
This has been true more times than I care to count.
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#27
by
Prober
on 16 Feb, 2016 21:35
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The general rule is that any news story from the general media that has the words "A Russian scientist said .... " and it is about future plans, well you are wasting your time reading that one.
This has been true more times than I care to count.
true, but nukes for use in space does seem to be news worthy?
