Author Topic: Alternative to Mars, an O'Neill colony  (Read 8225 times)

Offline llanitedave

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Re: Alternative to Mars, an O'Neill colony
« Reply #40 on: 02/12/2016 03:35 pm »
Liquid hydrogen could be brought from earth, while oxygen could be brought from the moon.  There is oxygen and silicone in the moon sand.  Lox is heavier but launching from the moon would be easier than bringing it from earth.  Silicone as well as aluminum and iron can be brought from the moon.  Carbon from earth could be brought in the form of methane as well as hydrogen.  Then carbon mixed with iron ore for various steels, but then limestone would have to also be brought from earth.  Smelting would probably have to be done via lasers with a lot of solar power to make various alloy's. 

Well if another billionaire like Bezos could get something going via L1 and the moon while Musk gets Mars going, maybe we will get a permanent presence off earth with colonies at the moon, Mars, and L1.


Wouldn't it be easier to bring hydrogen from Mars than from Earth?
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Offline nadreck

Re: Alternative to Mars, an O'Neill colony
« Reply #41 on: 02/12/2016 03:40 pm »
Liquid hydrogen could be brought from earth, while oxygen could be brought from the moon.  There is oxygen and silicone in the moon sand.  Lox is heavier but launching from the moon would be easier than bringing it from earth.  Silicone as well as aluminum and iron can be brought from the moon.  Carbon from earth could be brought in the form of methane as well as hydrogen.  Then carbon mixed with iron ore for various steels, but then limestone would have to also be brought from earth.  Smelting would probably have to be done via lasers with a lot of solar power to make various alloy's. 

Well if another billionaire like Bezos could get something going via L1 and the moon while Musk gets Mars going, maybe we will get a permanent presence off earth with colonies at the moon, Mars, and L1.


Wouldn't it be easier to bring hydrogen from Mars than from Earth?

Even easier from the moons polar regions
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Online guckyfan

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Re: Alternative to Mars, an O'Neill colony
« Reply #42 on: 02/13/2016 07:53 am »
There should be extensive research on radiation first. Those papers linked by QuantumG are interesting but they are based on estimates of tolerable radiation levels. Building a habitat with millions of tons of shielding mass carried to the building site through space does not sound like a good idea to me, if it is based mostly on assumptions.

Build a much smaller station first and do extensive animal tests, then decide on the amount of shielding. Or do the research on Mars where shielding only involves moving regolith.

Edit: Such huge amount of shielding mass also requires much more massive structures as all that mass needs to withstand rotation for artificial gravity.

Seems like I can't post these papers enough.

http://space.alglobus.net/papers/RadiationPaper.pdf
http://space.alglobus.net/papers/RotationPaper.pdf
« Last Edit: 02/13/2016 07:55 am by guckyfan »

Offline sdsds

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Re: Alternative to Mars, an O'Neill colony
« Reply #43 on: 02/13/2016 08:10 am »
Wait! The Globus radiation paper says, "Space settlements in equatorial LEO (Low Earth Orbit) below about 500 km are likely to meet [the recommended] standard with little or no dedicated radiation shielding." Where does the notion of huge amounts of shielding mass come from?
« Last Edit: 02/13/2016 08:10 am by sdsds »
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Online QuantumG

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Re: Alternative to Mars, an O'Neill colony
« Reply #44 on: 02/13/2016 10:02 am »
Oh, now I understand why I have to keep posting these papers. Reading is hard.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Alternative to Mars, an O'Neill colony
« Reply #45 on: 12/18/2018 01:58 pm »
Like lot others before I've been thinking of best way to construct a large habitat using steel producted on moon.
One biggest issues I had was frabrication of structural beams and plates that are welded or bolted together to make pressure vessel. The presses and molding plant to do this is huge, then there is issue of transporting it to space. Railguns or equivalent are great at sending bulk material but not large frabricated parts. 

Relativity Aerospace 3d printer technology for creating their fuel tanks, seems to be solution. Just need to scale up a bit, use dozens to hundreds of their printers. Feed stock would be steel wire.

Plant to produce wire is simpler and rolls of wire are compact enough to use mass  launchers for delivery to orbit.

High quality parts can still be printed but may need CNC milling afterwards. Still going to need moulds for common small parts like nuts and bolts.

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