Author Topic: Queqiao (Chang‘e-4 coms relay sat) - CZ-4C - XSLC - May 20, 2018 (21:28 UTC)  (Read 34017 times)

Offline beidou

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The Chang'e 4 relay spacecraft is planned for launch in June 2018. It will travel to the Earth-Moon L2 point to enable communications with a farside lander to be launched later the same year.

It will be launched by a CZ-4C rocket.
« Last Edit: 05/21/2018 09:18 am by input~2 »

Offline plutogno

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from Chinaspaceflight on Twitter

Offline Phil Stooke

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https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/HIT/DSLWP-A1-A2.html

Looks like the relay satellite will be accompanied by two small satellites, doing a combination of radio astronomy and amateur radio outreach work - enthusiasts can download telemetry and images.  The relay satellite is at L2  but these are apparently in an elliptical lunar orbit.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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I think the whole article is worth repeating here.

"DSLWP-A1/A2 Updated: 15 Nov 2016 

Supporting Organisation Harbin Institute of Technology 

Headline Details:

DSLWP is a lunar formation flying mission for low frequency radio astronomy, amateur radio and education, consists of 2 microsatellites. The amateur radio station onboard DSLWP-A1 will provide telecommand uplink and telemetry / digital image downlink. An open telecommand is also designed to allow amateurs to send commands to take and download an image.

They have a volume of about 50x50x40 cm3 and a mass of about 45 kg.

2 linear polarization antennas are mounted along and normal to the flight direction. The satellites are 3-axis stabilized. Proposing A1 downlinks on 435.425 MHz and 436.425 MHz and A2 downlinks on 435.400 MHz and 436.400 MHz using 10K0F1DCN or 10K0F1DEN with 250 bps GMSK with concatenated codes or JT65B.

Planning a launch into a 200 x 9000km lunar orbit in June 2018.

Further info at http://lilacsat.hit.edu.cn/ "
« Last Edit: 12/06/2016 03:00 am by Steven Pietrobon »
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Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Interesting:

Quote
CGWIC‏ @CGWIC

China and Saudi Arabia to cooperate on lunar explore. MOU for Chang E-4 lunar mission was signed between CNSA and KACST on 16 Mar.

https://twitter.com/CGWIC/status/842704588327342085

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Meanwhile according to this source CZ-4C s/n Y27 will become the first CZ-4 series to fly from Xichang (*) and early co-ordination works are already underway ahead of shipping. This is probably the one rocket that will launch the orbiter.

Also some old news from two weeks ago: the Chang'e 4 orbiter is launching in May 2018: http://cnews.chinadaily.com.cn/2018-01/08/content_35456298.htm

(*) Of course, the origin of the Long March 4 series was the "conventional option" of China's first geosynchronous orbit launcher, only to be beaten out by the Long March 3 because the Chinese wanted to experiment with liquid hydrogen powered rockets!
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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When is the monthly lunar launch window for this mission?
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Offline satwatcher

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Scientists working on one of the scientific instruments flying with the satellite report launch on May 21st.

Offline Phil Stooke

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Suggest a name for the relay satellite:

http://www.nssc.cas.cn/tzgg2015/tzgg_tzgg/201803/t20180329_4987980.html

(Google translation)

Concerning the notification of the recruitment of the No. 4 relay star name
Article Source:  Release Time:2018-03-29
All relevant units:

  The fourth relay satellite will be launched in May 2018. Considering that the No. 4 mission will be the biggest bright spot in

China's aerospace field in 2018, to further establish a good image of the lunar exploration project and expand the influence of

the project, the Lunar Exploration and Space Engineering Center plans to use the project implementation unit as the main target

for solicitation of No. 4 Relay star name.

  The No. 4 relay star name collection activity will take place from March 27 to April 15, 2018. The names so collected should

reflect the theme of lunar exploration, have innovative and significant technological and cultural characteristics, be positive,

and conform to the socialist core values.

  Specially invited your organization to participate in this solicitation. Please refer to the attachment for specific

requirements.

  Attachment: Program for Selection of Relay No. 4 Relay Stars

  Moon Exploration and Aerospace Engineering Center

  March 27, 2018

Offline Liss

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Throughout the text, "the fourth relay satellite" and similar expressions should be "Chang'e 4 relay satellite".
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Phil Stooke

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http://news.cnstock.com/news,bwkx-201804-4214240.htm

China Securities News reported on April 24 from the National Bureau of Science, Technology, and Technology that during the opening ceremony of the "China Aerospace Day" home event in 2018, Wu Yanhua said that the Chang'e 4 is one of the major tasks for China's space industry this year...

Wu Yanhua announced at the opening ceremony that the No. 4 relay star was named "Bianqiao" and the two small satellites were named "Longjiang No. 1" and "Longjiang No. 2".

Offline eeergo


http://news.cnstock.com/news,bwkx-201804-4214240.htm

China Securities News reported on April 24 from the National Bureau of Science, Technology, and Technology that during the opening ceremony of the "China Aerospace Day" home event in 2018, Wu Yanhua said that the Chang'e 4 is one of the major tasks for China's space industry this year...

Wu Yanhua announced at the opening ceremony that the No. 4 relay star was named "Bianqiao" and the two small satellites were named "Longjiang No. 1" and "Longjiang No. 2".

Interestingly, copying the original characters into the translator gives you the translation of "Quèqiáo", which is the name of the mythological "magpie bridge" referenced here https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/988648810925576193

I don't know why, when translating the whole article, "Bianqiao" comes up...
-DaviD-

Online Kosmos2001

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I haven't found a CZ-4C (or CZ-4 in general) mission sending anything so far away. It will be interesting to see the launcher performance.

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Online Phillip Clark

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I haven't found a CZ-4C (or CZ-4 in general) mission sending anything so far away. It will be interesting to see the launcher performance.

Remember that the original CZ-4A design was for launching satellites to GEO (the CZ-3 won in that design contest), so reducing the payload mass would give a trans-lunar capability.   Also remember that on Chang'E 1 the satellite was originally put into an eccentric Earth orbit and then the satellite used its own propulsion system for additional burns to enter a trans-lunar trajectory.
« Last Edit: 04/24/2018 06:36 pm by Phillip Clark »
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Offline Phil Stooke

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That's what I get for relying on Google to translate that article!  Curious that it behaves differently for the name itself, as eeergo says.  Anyway, we now have the names.  I expect we will get a name for the rover later in the year.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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http://news.cnstock.com/news,bwkx-201804-4214240.htm

<snip>

Wu Yanhua announced at the opening ceremony that the No. 4 relay star was named "Bianqiao" and the two small satellites were named "Longjiang No. 1" and "Longjiang No. 2".

Could someone translate the names, please?
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Online Satori

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http://news.cnstock.com/news,bwkx-201804-4214240.htm

<snip>

Wu Yanhua announced at the opening ceremony that the No. 4 relay star was named "Bianqiao" and the two small satellites were named "Longjiang No. 1" and "Longjiang No. 2".

Could someone translate the names, please?

Queqiao or 'magpie bridge' comes from Chinese mythologie.

Longjiang, means Dragon River.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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http://news.cnstock.com/news,bwkx-201804-4214240.htm

<snip>

Wu Yanhua announced at the opening ceremony that the No. 4 relay star was named "Bianqiao" and the two small satellites were named "Longjiang No. 1" and "Longjiang No. 2".

Could someone translate the names, please?

Queqiao or 'magpie bridge' comes from Chinese mythologie.

Longjiang, means Dragon River.

Oh yes, the bridge formed by all the magpies of the world over the Heavenly River (Milky Way).  They allow the Cowherd (Altair) and the Weaver Girl (Vega) to be together once a year, on the seventh day of the seventh lunar month!

Thank you!
« Last Edit: 04/24/2018 08:23 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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APStar-6C is successfully launched, and Queqiao is the next launch from Xichang.

4 questions (I realize that some or all of them may not be answerable at this moment):

What tracking ship or ships will support this mission?

Will the launch be video/web-cast live?

What is the launch window time and length?

How many days will the window remain open?
« Last Edit: 05/03/2018 11:27 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Avengers

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APStar-6C is successfully launched, and Queqiao is the next launch from Xichang.

4 questions (I realize that some or all of them may not be answerable at this moment):

What tracking ship or ships will support this mission?

Will the launch be video/web-cast live?

What is the launch window time and length?

How many days will the window remain open?

yuawang-6 tracking ship

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Will the launch be video/web-cast live?

What is the launch window time and length?

How many days will the window remain open?

That information has not been publicly released. Its anyone's guess if China will have a live web cast. The recent string of successful launches may prompt a live web cast. The last web cast in July last year was a bit of an embarrassment for China, with CZ-5 failing before everyone's eyes.

You could use orbital dynamics and previous launches to work out a launch window. Depending on the performance of the launcher, the window could range from seconds to hours. Probably closer to seconds since a CZ-4C is being used.

Since lighting conditions on the Moon are probably not a restriction, there should be an opportunity every few days, twice a month.
« Last Edit: 05/04/2018 07:27 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Here's a good image that shows the launch restriction. Imagine your launch site is at 28.5 degrees or less. Then twice every day, the launch site will pass within the Lunar orbit plane. After getting into LEO, you have to fire your engine at the point opposite the Moon from the centre of the Moon through the centre of the Earth. This point moves from 28.5 degrees South (as shown in the picture), through 0 to 28.5 degrees North, as the Moon orbits the Earth every 29.5 days (the synodic period).

For inclinations above 28.5 degrees, there is a line through the Earth where the Earth equatorial plane crosses the Lunar orbit plane. We need to do an inclination change along this line. The orbit plane we launch into also has to cross this line. For a minimum energy launch, we can launch into this plane once a day. However, the Moon has to be on the either end of the line, which means the opportunity only occurs twice a month. With some margin, we can extend the window per day and the days around these opportunities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon#/media/File:Lunar_Orbit_and_Orientation_with_respect_to_the_Ecliptic.tif
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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Will the launch be video/web-cast live?

That information has not been publicly released. Its anyone's guess if China will have a live web cast. The recent string of successful launches may prompt a live web cast. The last web cast in July last year was a bit of an embarrassment for China, with CZ-5 failing before everyone's eyes.
<snip>

Yes, I'm hoping recent launch successes and this payload being part of the Chang'e program will outweigh other concerns.  Chang'e-3 had live coverage.
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Online Phillip Clark

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The "live" launches tend to be lunar and man-related missions, plus the CZ-5 tests (which could be described as being "man-related", of course).

So on that basis I am hopeful for live coverage of the Queqiao launch.
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Offline Galactic Penguin SST

APStar-6C is successfully launched, and Queqiao is the next launch from Xichang.

4 questions (I realize that some or all of them may not be answerable at this moment):

What tracking ship or ships will support this mission?

Will the launch be video/web-cast live?

What is the launch window time and length?

How many days will the window remain open?

yuawang-6 tracking ship

It actually just left its base on the Yangtze river earlier today.
Yuan Wang 7, which tracked the APStar-6C launch on May 3 over the central Pacific, will also move around for this launch.
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Avengers

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APStar-6C is successfully launched, and Queqiao is the next launch from Xichang.

4 questions (I realize that some or all of them may not be answerable at this moment):

What tracking ship or ships will support this mission?

Will the launch be video/web-cast live?

What is the launch window time and length?

How many days will the window remain open?

yuawang-6 tracking ship

It actually just left its base on the Yangtze river earlier today.
Yuan Wang 7, which tracked the APStar-6C launch on May 3 over the central Pacific, will also move around for this launch.

Yes,Today’s news coverage。
https://weibo.com/3279752321/GfnxVkAOI?from=page_1005053279752321_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime&type=comment

Offline zandr

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What tracking ship or ships will support this mission?
http://russian.news.cn/2018-05/06/c_137159182.htm
Translation
Quote
The Chinese ship "Wanwan-6" began the mission of tracking of the satellite repeater", Zhuazao" lunar probe "Chang'e-4"
Nanjing, may 6 /Xinhua/ - the Ship monitoring of space flights "Wanwan-6" on Saturday left the port of Jiangsu province in Eastern China and went to the specified area of the Pacific ocean, to follow the flight of "Cacao" - data-relay spacecraft for the lunar probe "Chang'e-4".
Lunar probe "changye-4" will be launched at the end of this year, it will have to make the first landing in the history of mankind on the reverse side of the moon. Satellite-repeater ", Zhuazao" will be responsible for signal transfer between the Earth and the back side of the moon.
Tracking and control ", Zhuazao" from the sea will be implemented by the courts "Wanwan-6" and "Yuanyuan-7". The ship "Wanwan-7" just completed the mission to monitor the communications satellite APSTAR-6C and has traveled in a given area to perform the new job.

Offline satwatcher

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Under the assumption that CE-4 follows the same parking orbit as CE-2 and CE-5T1, and that a 4 day coast to lunar orbit is used, with translunar insertion about 19 minutes after launch, the launch time would have to be around 22:15UT if launched on May 21st.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Under the assumption that CE-4 follows the same parking orbit as CE-2 and CE-5T1, and that a 4 day coast to lunar orbit is used, with translunar insertion about 19 minutes after launch, the launch time would have to be around 22:15UT if launched on May 21st.

Does that still holds for a launch towards the EM-L2 point, which this is heading to?
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Offline satwatcher

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Does that still holds for a launch towards the EM-L2 point, which this is heading to?
That is a good point, and it is not clear to me what the trajectory options are to reach EM-L2. Add this as an other assumption.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

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Offline Star One

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China preparing to launch Chang’e-4 relay satellite May 21

Quote
HELSINKI, Finland – China is set to launch a relay satellite to the second Earth-moon Lagrange point May 21, in a necessary precursor to the planned Chang’e-4 soft-landing on the lunar far side late in the year.

Chang’e-4 is the backup to the Chang’e-3 mission which put a lander and rover on Mare Imbrium in late 2013. Following that success, the lunar craft have been repurposed for a pioneering landing on the moon’s far side.

The lunar far side does not face the Earth as the moon’s orbital period matches its rotational period, thus requiring a relay satellite to facilitate communications.

Quote
Ian Crawford, professor of planetary science and astrobiology at Birkbeck, University of London, told SpaceNews the mission would be a “tremendous undertaking, as it would be the first time any spacecraft has successfully landed on the far side of the moon.”

The landing is currently expected to target the Von Kármán crater within the South Pole-Aitken Basin, though a decision on the final site has not been announced by Chinese scientists.

The South Pole-Aitken Basin is, Crawford notes, a high priority scientific objective for exploration, potentially offering unique insights into the formation of the moon and history of the solar system.

http://spacenews.com/china-preparing-to-launch-change-4-relay-satellite-may-21/

I like the lyrical name that it’s been given. But then again the Chinese always give their Lunar program components such lyrical names.
« Last Edit: 05/15/2018 07:19 pm by Star One »

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Offline zubenelgenubi

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What is the launch window time and length?
<snip>
You could use orbital dynamics and previous launches to work out a launch window. Depending on the performance of the launcher, the window could range from seconds to hours. Probably closer to seconds since a CZ-4C is being used.

Since lighting conditions on the Moon are probably not a restriction, there should be an opportunity every few days, twice a month.
And:
Here's a good image that shows the launch restriction. Imagine your launch site is at 28.5 degrees or less. Then twice every day, the launch site will pass within the Lunar orbit plane. After getting into LEO, you have to fire your engine at the point opposite the Moon from the centre of the Moon through the centre of the Earth. This point moves from 28.5 degrees South (as shown in the picture), through 0 to 28.5 degrees North, as the Moon orbits the Earth every 29.5 days (the synodic period).

For inclinations above 28.5 degrees, there is a line through the Earth where the Earth equatorial plane crosses the Lunar orbit plane. We need to do an inclination change along this line. The orbit plane we launch into also has to cross this line. For a minimum energy launch, we can launch into this plane once a day. However, the Moon has to be on the either end of the line, which means the opportunity only occurs twice a month. With some margin, we can extend the window per day and the days around these opportunities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon#/media/File:Lunar_Orbit_and_Orientation_with_respect_to_the_Ecliptic.tif
Thanks, Steven!

And a partial answer to my question from SpaceNews, dated May 14: China preparing to launch Chang’e-4 relay satellite May 21
Quote
...the three-day launch window opening on May 21 [CST/May 20 UTC, italics mine].
« Last Edit: 05/16/2018 03:39 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Online Phillip Clark

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Not sure if it's significant but a very rough calculation suggests that the Moon is close to perigee at 20:00 on May 20th.   
« Last Edit: 05/16/2018 04:38 pm by Phillip Clark »
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Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Still no NOTAMs yet but drop zone notices are starting to come out and confirms the launch time at just after 21:00 UTC on May 20.

The 1st stage drop zone is near Zunyi, Guizhou and the fairing drop zone is near Ninghua county in Fujian.

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Offline Liss

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Are these NOTAMs relevant?

Quote
J4031/18 - ALTN RTE FOR A582/R595/Y579/Y27/Y533/Y531/Y59/ ARE ESTABLISHED DUE TO SPACEFLIGHT ACTIVITIES. 1.FLT PLANNED RTE IS REQ TO BE FILED AS FLW (1)A582:(BTN MAMIK AND NIMOX) ALTN RTE:NHC V91 MJC-ALBAX-NIMOX (2)R595:(BTN MJC AND TUNTO) ALTN RTE:MJC-ALBAX-NIMOX-TUNTO (3)Y579:(BTN AZAMA AND SAKON) ALTN RTE:AZAMA Y74 NHC V91 MJC-ALBAX-NIMOX (4)Y27:(BTN AMMEK AND SAKON) ALTN RTE:YURIX Y62 IKEMA-ALBAX-NIMOX (5)Y533:(BTN ALBAX AND AZAMA) ALTN RTE:ALBAX-IKEMA Y57 AZAMA (6)Y531:(BTN ALBAX AND YURIX) ALTN RTE:ALBAX-IKEMA Y62 YURIX (7)Y59:(BTN KAZIK AND AZAMA) ALTN RTE:AZAMA Y74 NHC V91 MJC B462 KAZIK 2.SEE NOTAM RJAAYNYX J4030/18. SFC - UNL, 2125/2140 2255/2310, 20 MAY 21:25 2018 UNTIL 20 MAY 23:10 2018. CREATED: 18 MAY 09:51 2018

J4030/18 - DUE TO SPACEFLIGHT ACTIVITIES,THE FLIGHT SAFETY OF THE AIRCRAFT IN FOLLOWING AREAS MAY BE AFFECTED ON MAY 20, 2018 DETAILS ARE AS FOLLOWS: ON MAY 20,2018 FROM 21:31-21:40 UTC AND 23:01-23:10 UTC AREA: 242432N1271117E 234250N1265819E 240231N1254146E 244420N1255418E,FOUR-POINT CONNECTION RANGE. VERTICAL ALTITUDE:SFC-UNL RMK/ATC WILL NOT CLEAR IFR FLT THRU THIS AREA FOR THE FLIGHT SAFETY. SFC - UNL, 2131/2140 2301/2310, 20 MAY 21:31 2018 UNTIL 20 MAY 23:10 2018. CREATED: 18 MAY 09:49 2018

Seems to be the case; and Stage 2 will overfly Taipei at some 05:30 local time. Heads up!

« Last Edit: 05/18/2018 12:05 pm by Liss »
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Various notices for falling rocket parts are up and one quotes a launch time of 21:28 UTC. All quotes the launch code as 07-87.

I'm not sure there will be any kind of coverage at launch - it has been dead silence since before the spacecraft reached Xichang!  ::)
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Offline Star One

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Various notices for falling rocket parts are up and one quotes a launch time of 21:28 UTC. All quotes the launch code as 07-87.

I'm not sure there will be any kind of coverage at launch - it has been dead silence since before the spacecraft reached Xichang!  ::)

That’s really strange isn’t it as normally they publicise anything related to their Lunar program.

Offline GELORD

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China to launch relay satellite for Chang'e-4 lunar probe

BEIJING, May 18 (Xinhua) -- China plans to launch a relay satellite into space next Monday, May 21, for the Chang'e-4 lunar probe scheduled later this year.

The Chang'e-4 lunar probe will undertake the first ever soft landing on the far side of the Moon. However, direct communication with the far side of the Moon is not possible, which is one of the many challenges of the Chang'e-4 lunar probe mission.

The relay satellite, named Queqiao, will be responsible for transmitting signals between the Earth station and the Chang'e-4 lander and rover.

Relay satellites are communication satellites that can provide data relay and monitoring services for spacecraft, improving the efficiency and emergency capability of various satellites. They also enable data from earth resource and environmental satellites to be transmitted in real time.

The Chang'e-4 probe will also carry scientific payloads for four countries, including the Netherlands and Germany.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-05/18/c_137188922.htm
与战士站岗、炊事员做饭一样,航天员是一种职业,工作就是飞行。

Offline input~2

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also a navigation warning:

[NAVTEX Navigational Warnings]
NANSEI SHOTO. SE OF MIYAKO SHIMA. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS DUE TO SPACEFLIGHT 

NO.18-0887        Date:2018/05/18 17 UTC
NANSEI SHOTO. SE OF MIYAKO SHIMA.
HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS DUE TO SPACEFLIGHT
ACTIVITIES. 202131Z TO 202140Z AND
202301Z TO 202310 MAY.
AREA BOUNDED BY
24-24-32N 127-11-17E
23-42-50N 126-58-19E
24-02-31N 125-41-46E
24-44-20N 125-54-18E.

Offline input~2

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Quote
ACTIVITIES. 202131Z TO 202140Z AND 202301Z TO 202310 MAY.
So apparently 2 potential windows for falling debris South of Okinawa
21:31-21:40 UTC or 23:01-23:10

Offline bjornl

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The Dutch payload is kind of a big thing around here. It is intended to receive radio waves from the 'embryonic stage' of the universe, just after the Big Bang. An article from a local newspaper is pretty well readable in Google translated English:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.omroepgelderland.nl%2Fnieuws%2F2315799%2FNijmeegse-apparatuur-met-Chinese-raket-de-ruimte-in-Spannendste-radio-uitzending-ooit&edit-text=

With a small jab at Elon Musk:
"The radio receiver was developed by Falcke and his team. He compares it with a car radio. Falcke: 'Elon Musk sent a whole car into space with a car radio. Unfortunately it is not on, it does not receive anything. So we just have to send the car radio up there independently to be able to receive something there. '"

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Phoenix TV, probably the biggest non-state TV station of China, might be carrying the launch live! Treat this as an unconfirmed info though, as I understand that CCTV isn't going to cover it.

I'll be up early at around 21:00 UTC for covering this launch (have to wake up early for work anyway).
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Skyrocket

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Any info, which pad is being used for this launch?

Offline input~2

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Any info, which pad is being used for this launch?
LC-3 according to 9ifly

Offline Skylab

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Quote
Update: rocket launch is schedule for 23:28 p.m. (Amsterdam Time). #NCLE @ASTRON_NL @isis_space @Radboud_Uni @RUastro
Source: https://twitter.com/RadRadioLab/status/998304855608446976

Online Chris Bergin

So that's 30 minutes from the time of this post!

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Andrew Jones has posted this picture of the vehicle on the pad. Not sure where he got it from.

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/998310123155189760
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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https://twitter.com/RadRadioLab/status/998310404781674498

Radboud Radio Lab
‏ @RadRadioLab
3 minutes ago

T-15 #AllSystemsGo
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/998311630135013377

Edit to add:

Quote
Someone is streaming from their phone at a viewing area in Xichang satellite launch centre.

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/998311982133665793
« Last Edit: 05/20/2018 09:19 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Phoenix TV, probably the biggest non-state TV station of China, might be carrying the launch live! Treat this as an unconfirmed info though, as I understand that CCTV isn't going to cover it.

I'll be up early at around 21:00 UTC for covering this launch (have to wake up early for work anyway).

Further to this, same source: Phoenix TV crew is on-site, but will only report on launch circa 2 hours after launch.
***

T-0 ?!
« Last Edit: 05/20/2018 09:29 pm by zubenelgenubi »
Support your local planetarium!

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Offline Svetoslav

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Yes, it just launched :) Saw it on the stream :P

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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« Last Edit: 05/20/2018 09:32 pm by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Captures from the stream:

Quote
Liftoff of Queqiao Chang'e-4 lunar relay satellite!

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/998314911112589313

Online Chris Bergin

AUNCH! Clever as the person went from the TV screen to outside with one swift action!

Queqiao relay satellite launched ahead of Chang’e-4 lunar mission:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/05/queqiao-relay-satellite-launched-change-4-lunar-mission/ … - by Rui C. Barbosa

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Link to that stream: https://www.yizhibo.com/l/gFg-lYQyXLtpJFYS.html

I hope this person or persons don't get in too much trouble for providing this service to the world...thank you.
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Radboud Radio Lab
‏ @RadRadioLab
3 minutes ago

All systems green, rocket on track #NCLE

https://twitter.com/RadRadioLab/status/998316327197728768
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Radboud Radio Lab
‏ @RadRadioLab
40s ago

Stage separation confirmed @isis_space @ASTRON_NL #NCLELaunch

https://twitter.com/RadRadioLab/status/998317079915909125
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Andrew Jones
‏ @AJ_FI
25 seconds ago

Andrew Jones Retweeted BG2BHC

Longjiang 1 & 2 microsatellites successfully separated from launch vehicle #queqiao

Andrew Jones added,
BG2BHC
 @bg2bhc
DSLWP-A/B successfully seprated from vehicle @AMSAT @AmsatUK

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/998322802498441216
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Andrew Jones
‏ @AJ_FI
25 seconds ago

Andrew Jones Retweeted BG2BHC

Longjiang 1 & 2 microsatellites successfully separated from launch vehicle #queqiao

Andrew Jones added,
BG2BHC
 @bg2bhc
DSLWP-A/B successfully seprated from vehicle @AMSAT @AmsatUK

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/998322802498441216

That more or less should mean the launch is successful. Confirmation pending....
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline JimO

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Do we know where the TLI burn should occur and if its in dark or daylight? That is, should we start looking for serendipitous ground observations of the plume?

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Heino Falcke
‏ @hfalcke

Looks like satellite is released and solar panels deployed - now we have to wait until #Queqiao with #NCLE reaches the moon #NCLELaunch #Change4

https://twitter.com/hfalcke/status/998329415921782787
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Andrew Jones
‏ @AJ_FI
2 minutes ago

Chang'e-4: Main space programme contractor CASC confirms successful launch and insertion in lunar transfer orbit for the #Queqiao relay satellite

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/998330680810573825
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/DgstuyN4_txO_W1SeZtoow

May 21 5:28, in China's Xichang Satellite Launch Center, by China Aerospace Technology Group Co., Ltd. to grasp the total development of the Chang ' e fourth relay star "Bridge" aboard the Long March fourth C launch vehicle. Satellite from the rocket into the perigee of about 200 km, apogee about 400,000 kilometers of the Earth-moon transfer orbit.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Article by Andrew Jones.

https://gbtimes.com/china-launches-queqiao-relay-satellite-to-support-change-4-lunar-far-side-landing-mission

"China has successfully launched a lunar communications relay satellite designed to support an unprecedented mission to put a lander and rover on the far side of the Moon in late 2018, as well as carry out pioneering astronomy."
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Andrew Jones
‏ @AJ_FI
4 minutes ago

Some pics of the launch of #queqiao Chang'e-4 lunar relay satellite from Xichang (Liu Xu). https://goo.gl/riRLbF

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/998338858965184513
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Andrew Jones
‏ @AJ_FI
4 minutes ago

And the 448 kg Queqiao Chang'e-4 relay sat before launch

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/998339540715823104
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline whiztech

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You can watch the stream of the launch using the following link. With VLC Media Player, select

Media -> Open Network Stream... -> Please enter a network URL: (link below) -> Play.

http://wscdn.alhls.xiaoka.tv/2018521/468/462/gFg-lYQyXLtpJFYS/index.m3u8

Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline frensel

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The lastest Baidu doodle is about Queqiao. One can see this logo later in http://logo.baidu.com/.

Offline SciNews

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Long March-4C launches Queqiao

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21:28:49:970 UTC

Offline jcm

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Zooming in on the above you can pretty much make out the stage timings
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline Liss

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First elset for Queqiao published -- 43470 / 2018-045A.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline input~2

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First elset for Queqiao published -- 43470 / 2018-045A.

... and the orbit is:
383,110  x 395 km x 27.5° at epoch May 20, 23:17 UTC

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
What goes up...China has successfully launched the exciting #Queqiao Chang'e-4 lunar relay satellite, but here's the downside: a spent yet toxic Long March 4C stage falling downrange in Jiangkou County, Guzizhou province. No casualties, no property damage.

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/998489166135644161

Offline input~2

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Flightpath showing Jiangkou, Guizhou province
« Last Edit: 05/21/2018 10:02 am by input~2 »

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First elset for Queqiao published -- 43470 / 2018-045A.
... and the orbit is:
383,110  x 395 km x 27.5° at epoch May 20, 23:17 UTC

Have the Chinese given the inclination of the coast orbit of the CZ-4C third stage and its attached payloads?   Yes, I am probably being optimistic!
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

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Quote
A few more images of debris from the Long March 4C rocket used to send the #queqiao Chang'e-4 relay satellite to the Moon.

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/998903337172029440

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Which part of the launcher appears to be in the first photo?

Edit: It looks like a parallel booster of a CZ-3 or CZ-2F family. It is weird.  :-\
« Last Edit: 05/22/2018 01:04 pm by Kosmos2001 »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Which part of the launcher appears to be in the first photo?

Edit: It looks like a parallel booster of a CZ-3 or CZ-2F family. It is weird.  :-\

Funnily enough:

Quote
First image looks more like a CZ-3 booster...

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/998910882456403968

Offline Hotblack Desiato

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Very interesting launch.

May I ask something, would it be possible to add the pinyin markers for the correct pronounciation in the article, and similar articles to chinese missions?

Essentially, that's just some accents, Cháng'é, Quèqiáo.

(You may even add the chinese symbols, they are part of unicode and should be easily available).

Offline Star One

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Very interesting launch.

May I ask something, would it be possible to add the pinyin markers for the correct pronounciation in the article, and similar articles to chinese missions?

Essentially, that's just some accents, Cháng'é, Quèqiáo.

(You may even add the chinese symbols, they are part of unicode and should be easily available).

Many mobile keyboards do not possess them as you should not assume everyone accesses this site the same way.

Offline Hotblack Desiato

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Very interesting launch.

May I ask something, would it be possible to add the pinyin markers for the correct pronounciation in the article, and similar articles to chinese missions?

Essentially, that's just some accents, Cháng'é, Quèqiáo.

(You may even add the chinese symbols, they are part of unicode and should be easily available).

Many mobile keyboards do not possess them as you should not assume everyone accesses this site the same way.

Usually yes

But I doubt that the article itself was written on a smartphone ;-)

Offline Star One

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Very interesting launch.

May I ask something, would it be possible to add the pinyin markers for the correct pronounciation in the article, and similar articles to chinese missions?

Essentially, that's just some accents, Cháng'é, Quèqiáo.

(You may even add the chinese symbols, they are part of unicode and should be easily available).

Many mobile keyboards do not possess them as you should not assume everyone accesses this site the same way.

Usually yes

But I doubt that the article itself was written on a smartphone ;-)

Who knows these days!

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
#queqiao Chang'e-4 satellite is right now (13:41 UTC/ 09:41 EDT/ 21:41 BJT) expected to flyby the Moon at ~110 km above the surface & head to E-M Lagrange point 2, after a braking manoeuvre. Hopefully we'll get actual updates from China before too long.

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1000008862659948545

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Quote
#queqiao Chang'e-4 satellite is right now (13:41 UTC/ 09:41 EDT/ 21:41 BJT) expected to flyby the Moon at ~110 km above the surface & head to E-M Lagrange point 2, after a braking manoeuvre. Hopefully we'll get actual updates from China before too long.

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1000008862659948545

The burn has been successfully completed at 13:32 UTC.
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline kfsorensen

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Queqiao Chang'e-4 satellite performs Moon flyby, makes successful braking manoeuvre

Quote
The Beijing Aerospace Control Centre (BACC) issued the command at 21:32 Beijing time (13:32 UTC), and by 21:46 confirmed through telemetry that Queqiao had performed the burn and entered a transfer orbit towards the second Earth-Moon Lagrange point, People's Liberation Army Daily reported. The spacecraft passed the Moon at 100 km above the surface at closest approach. Failure to perform the braking manoeuvre would have seen the spacecraft head back towards the Earth.
« Last Edit: 05/26/2018 03:04 pm by kfsorensen »

Offline Phil Stooke

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Jonathan McDowell   @planet4589     2 hours ago

So it looks like Longjiang-2 (DSLWP-B) is in a 350 x 13800 km x 21 deg lunar orbit. Longjiang-1 seems to have failed on May 21 and presumably remains in distant Earth orbit following its lunar flyby


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Offline Svetoslav

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Korolev strategy was efficient : send two identical probes, just in case one of them fails ;)

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Meanwhile: it appears that Longjiang-2 is the first smallsat that successfully breaks into lunar orbit with its own propulsion system. Congrats! I was about to say it's the first true smallsat in lunar orbit, but it seems that the first ones were Okina and Ouna by Kaguya mission (Japan) - 53kg satellites. However, they were released in lunar orbit only after the mother craft went there first.


Offline gwiz

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How about the Apollo sub-satellites from 1971?

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How about the Apollo sub-satellites from 1971?


Forgot about these :) But they didn't have their own propulsion to maneuver too, right?

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Right - they were released while the Apollo CSM was already in orbit.

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Thanks, Phil. Before Longjiang-2, what was the smallest satellite to maneuver into Lunar orbit? My bet is for Hiten (early 90s Japanese probe).

Offline Dalhousie

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Quote
#queqiao Chang'e-4 satellite is right now (13:41 UTC/ 09:41 EDT/ 21:41 BJT) expected to flyby the Moon at ~110 km above the surface & head to E-M Lagrange point 2, after a braking manoeuvre. Hopefully we'll get actual updates from China before too long.

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1000008862659948545

The burn has been successfully completed at 13:32 UTC.

Do we know when it will arrive at L2?
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Phil Stooke

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"Before Longjiang-2, what was the smallest satellite to maneuver into Lunar orbit? My bet is for Hiten (early 90s Japanese probe)."

Interesting question!  Hiten was small, but it had an even smaller companion called Hagoromo.  Hiten was not intended to become an orbiter, but it would release Hagoromo during a lunar flyby and the mini-satellite would make a small burn to enter orbit.  But communication was lost when Hagoromo was released.  Did it burn and enter orbit?  Apparently there was optical confirmation of the burn from Earth.  So if that is correct Hagoromo entered orbit.  Mass - not sure if I have that, but quite small.

Only after that, and thinking Hagoromo did not go into orbit, was Hiten repurposed for lunar orbit.  Ed Belbruno and James Miller of JPL designed the low energy trajectory.

Offline gwiz

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Mass - not sure if I have that, but quite small.
8 kg including the solid motor.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Quote
#queqiao Chang'e-4 satellite is right now (13:41 UTC/ 09:41 EDT/ 21:41 BJT) expected to flyby the Moon at ~110 km above the surface & head to E-M Lagrange point 2, after a braking manoeuvre. Hopefully we'll get actual updates from China before too long.

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1000008862659948545

The burn has been successfully completed at 13:32 UTC.

Do we know when it will arrive at L2?

News reports during the perilune burn gives the transfer to EML2 time as "around 4 days" so it should arrive around today.
Nothing at all was reported from tjhe Chinese since then. 
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Phil Stooke

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Sorry, I know this is off topic but just to follow up on the posts above about Hiten:

Canalias, E., Gomez, G., Marcote, M., & Masdemont, J. J. (2004). Assessment of mission design including utilization of libration points and weak stability boundaries. ESA Advanced Concept Team.


http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.194.2043&rep=rep1&type=pdf


"At 19:37 UT on 18 March 1990 (04:37 19 March JST) as Hiten approached its first lunar flyby, the small Hagoromo spacecraft was released into lunar orbit, making Japan the third nation to orbit the Moon.  Although the S-bamd transmitter aboard Hagoromo had failed on 21 February 1990, the ignition of the Hagoromo deceleration rocket was confirmed by ground observation at 20:04:03 UT, the estimated orbit was 7400 by 20000 km with a period of 2.01 days. Six seconds later, at 20:04:09 UT (05:04:09 19 March JST) Hiten reached its closest flyby distance to the Moon of 16472.4 km."

The same source also give the mass of Hagoromo as 12 kg, with context suggesting that should include the motor and/or fuel.

Offline gwiz

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The same source also give the mass of Hagoromo as 12 kg, with context suggesting that should include the motor and/or fuel.
That's right, should have said 8 kg not including rocket in my post above.

I have 9.8 deg as the lunar orbit inclination for it.
« Last Edit: 05/31/2018 08:56 am by gwiz »

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Quote
#queqiao Chang'e-4 satellite is right now (13:41 UTC/ 09:41 EDT/ 21:41 BJT) expected to flyby the Moon at ~110 km above the surface & head to E-M Lagrange point 2, after a braking manoeuvre. Hopefully we'll get actual updates from China before too long.

https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1000008862659948545

The burn has been successfully completed at 13:32 UTC.

Do we know when it will arrive at L2?

News reports during the perilune burn gives the transfer to EML2 time as "around 4 days" so it should arrive around today.
Nothing at all was reported from tjhe Chinese since then.

It seems that the report above was incorrect and CE-4 Relay will not reach the halo orbit until around 20 days after launch, so probably not for another 10 days.
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Svetoslav

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Thanks for clarifying. I wondered what's wrong with that lack of information.

Online Olaf

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https://gbtimes.com/queqiao-update-change-4-lunar-relay-satellite-establishing-halo-orbit-after-approaching-lagrange-point
Queqiao update: Chang'e-4 lunar relay satellite establishing halo orbit after approaching Lagrange point

Online Olaf

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https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1002929442854002688
Quote
Report that DSLWP-A1 may not be dead after all. (anyone want to translate the Chinese?). What orbit it's in is another matter...
@LiuyiYiliu
message from Harbin Institute of Technology ,
confirmed already already received the signal from Longjiang1 (DSLWP-A1).
08:06 - 2. Juni 2018

Offline russianhalo117

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https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1002929442854002688
Quote
Report that DSLWP-A1 may not be dead after all. (anyone want to translate the Chinese?). What orbit it's in is another matter...
@LiuyiYiliu
message from Harbin Institute of Technology ,
confirmed already already received the signal from Longjiang1 (DSLWP-A1).
08:06 - 2. Juni 2018
last issued TLE on CelesTrak:
LONGJIANG 1
1 43471U 18045B   18140.97000001 -.00010094  00000-0  00000-0 0  9993
2 43471  27.5020 209.5210 9658153 171.2240   2.0960  0.09844104    18

LONGJIANG 2
1 43472U 18045C   18140.97000001 -.00010094  00000-0  00000-0 0  9994
2 43472  27.5020 209.5210 9658153 171.2240   2.0960  0.09844104    19

Offline Liss

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This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline Dalhousie

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Any news of safe arrival?
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Any news of safe arrival?

Apparently the arrival date is still around 2-4 days away.
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Star One

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Any news of safe arrival?

Apparently the arrival date is still around 2-4 days away.

Taking its time. Due to limitations of the launcher?

Offline Phil Stooke

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The faster you go, the more you have to slow down when you get there.  Much better to go slowly and ease into the complex path around L2, with more chance for small corrections to the trajectory along the way.  I get the impression there was some nervousness about this mission, because a lot depends on it, and somewhere I saw that they only had fuel for one attempt so it had to be done right.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Any news of safe arrival?

Apparently the arrival date is still around 2-4 days away.

...and that burn has just been completed successfully at 03:00 UTC.

Source
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline Svetoslav

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Offline Svetoslav

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Offline SciNews

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Queqiao entered the planned halo orbit around the second Lagrangian (L2) point of the Earth-Moon system on 14 June 2018, at 03:06 UTC (11:06 Beijing time).
« Last Edit: 06/14/2018 05:53 pm by SciNews »

Offline Sizzy

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Earth Image , taken by Longjiang small satellite near the backside of moon
June 8th 2018 13:29 UTC+8
« Last Edit: 06/15/2018 02:16 am by Sizzy »

Offline SciNews

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images taken by Longjiang-2 with an optical camera developed by the King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology of Saudi Arabia

Offline wahaha

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https://gbtimes.com/radio-enthusiasts-receive-new-earth-and-moon-images-from-chinese-microsatellite-in-lunar-orbit

Radio enthusiasts managed to connect with and download images captured by a tiny satellite in lunar orbit over the weekend and were rewarded with images of the Moon and Earth.

Offline eeergo

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2018/10/chinas-moon-missions-could-threaten-us-satellites-pentagon/152084/

Sad reminder of what some people are paid and encouraged to think (=be paranoid) about - or why we can't have nice things.
-DaviD-

Offline zubenelgenubi

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https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2018/10/chinas-moon-missions-could-threaten-us-satellites-pentagon/152084/

Sad reminder of what some people are paid and encouraged to think (=be paranoid) about - or why we can't have nice things.

Jim Oberg's Omni article from 1984 was the first I'd heard of this attack scenario:
PEARL HARBOR IN SPACE, James Oberg, OMNI Magazine, July 1984, Page 42-44ff
Support your local planetarium!

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Delta-V from LEO to to EML-2 is 3.43 km/s and EML-2 to GEO is 1.47 km/s, for a total of 4.9 km/s. Or, I could park my stealthy machine gun equipped death satellite in orbit above GEO for a delta-V of 4.3 km/s. When I want to attack, I lower the death satellite to below perigee and start blasting away! That's a lot faster than travelling from EML-2. The guy is obviously not paranoid enough. :-)
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline tehwkd

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Custodian of NextLaunch & LaunchStuff |   Utilizer of Google

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

https://www.weibo.com/1851755225/Han6Y89L8

Note that the Earth and Moon photos were taken a while back (14 July 2018).
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill


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