In an unmanned mode, the problems of designing a launch escape system aren't required (although DCC will have one to save itself).
Quote from: a_langwich on 01/15/2016 01:38 amBut, if the land-landing Dragon requires Super Dracos and is thus a Dragon V2 Yup, and land-landing doesn't necessarily mean propulsive landing. Assuming nothing has changed since we last heard (I SAID, assuming nothing has changed since we last heard) they'll be coming down under parachute and just pop the SDs for landing deceleration ala Soyuz.
But, if the land-landing Dragon requires Super Dracos and is thus a Dragon V2
Ah yes, I forgot that. In that case, could a longer burn of plain Dracos on a Dragon V1 also suffice to soften the landing, or do they not have the fuel/positioning/oomph to do the trick?
Whatever happened to Armadillo Aerospace's GPS-steered parafoil scheme?
Quote from: vt_hokie on 01/15/2016 02:02 amso no need for the either/or battle anymore!I admire your optimism. But I don't think anything will stop most of the arguments that occur perpetually around here
so no need for the either/or battle anymore!
No vehicles provide un-pressurized downmass...
Unless Cargo Dream Chaser can separate from its back-end and de-orbit separately, that vehicle is going to have to land at the same kind of locations that Dragon will land at once it has its land-landing sorted out. They simply are not going to dispose of either the Dragon's trunk or the DC back-end over land.
http://www.orbitalatk.com/news-room/release.asp?prid=112NASA Selects Orbital ATK for New 8-Year Contract to Deliver Cargo to the International Space StationUnder the Commercial Resupply Services-2 (CRS-2) contract, the company was awarded six initial cargo missions, valued at about $1.2-$1.5 billion, to be carried out beginning in 2019. Depending on the spacecraft/launch vehicle configurations used, these initial missions will deliver approximately 22,500-26,500 kilograms (or 49,000-58,000 pounds) of supplies and equipment to the orbiting laboratory. Later in the contract, NASA may award additional missions for the 2021-2024 period based on operational requirements of the ISS.
Orbital ATK are saying the value of their contract is $1.2B to $1.5B.http://www.orbitalatk.com/news-room/release.asp?prid=112 Depending on the spacecraft/launch vehicle configurations used, these initial missions will deliver approximately 22,500-26,500 kilograms (or 49,000-58,000 pounds) of supplies and equipment to the orbiting laboratory.
Later in the contract, NASA may award additional missions for the 2021-2024 period based on operational requirements of the ISS.
For all upcoming missions under the CRS-1 and CRS-2 contracts, Orbital ATK will use the enhanced Cygnus design.
Quote from: Star One on 01/14/2016 10:30 pmQuote from: abaddon on 01/14/2016 10:27 pmTo reiterate, NASA will be able to select a propulsive Dragon return with the same upper bound of timeframe of delivery of samples (three hours) as DreamChaser. quick return of samples is not a capability unique to DreamChaser.You cannot land a Dragon in as many places as you could land a DC should the need arise.Unproven assertion, and unproven that such a need exists at all (let alone for quick return of samples). As far as we know all NASA DC flights will land at KSC.There was talk about using DC for a gentle return profile for medical emergencies, obviously that doesn't apply to a cargo craft.
Quote from: abaddon on 01/14/2016 10:27 pmTo reiterate, NASA will be able to select a propulsive Dragon return with the same upper bound of timeframe of delivery of samples (three hours) as DreamChaser. quick return of samples is not a capability unique to DreamChaser.You cannot land a Dragon in as many places as you could land a DC should the need arise.
To reiterate, NASA will be able to select a propulsive Dragon return with the same upper bound of timeframe of delivery of samples (three hours) as DreamChaser. quick return of samples is not a capability unique to DreamChaser.
I think that John Muratore and the other folks that worked the X-38 had a bit of a smile today for their lifting body efforts. Even though presently he works at SpaceX and doubly so with their win... Now that SNC has a contract to develop a cargo version, how will Mark's "manned" efforts with the international parties he play out. We still have the talk of Bigelow post ISS, orbital tourism and logistics...
Quote from: MattMason on 01/15/2016 01:43 am In an unmanned mode, the problems of designing a launch escape system aren't required (although DCC will have one to save itself).Oh, do we know that? That would require payload fairing separation, payload separation from the rocket, DC separation from trunk, wing deployment, and large quantities of DC deltaV that would not be used otherwise. Has Atlas added the capability to jettison the payload fairing upon emergency detection (and will it even jettison properly in higher dynamic pressure?), and separate the payload? Seems like it might be possible, if a customer requested.But then there's the question of the escape motors...the original DC crew proposal was already trying to decide between hybrids or switching to liquids. I thought perhaps they would ditch those entirely since there was no crew to save. That weight savings might be important to enable the folding wings.I suppose you could blow the fairing, cut loose the DC, and hope its flight software could somehow figure out a way to recover, unpowered, from whatever nasty angle of attack / stall / spin it found itself in, and land somewhere (back at KSC in the best of all possible worlds) or ditch at sea.