Author Topic: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016  (Read 221205 times)

Offline QuantumG

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #260 on: 01/15/2016 02:27 am »
Yep, and they do have that lovely new landing pad.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline a_langwich

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #261 on: 01/15/2016 02:44 am »
In an unmanned mode, the problems of designing a launch escape system aren't required (although DCC will have one to save itself).

Oh, do we know that?  That would require payload fairing separation, payload separation from the rocket, DC separation from trunk, wing deployment, and large quantities of DC deltaV that would not be used otherwise.  Has Atlas added the capability to jettison the payload fairing upon emergency detection (and will it even jettison properly in higher dynamic pressure?), and separate the payload?  Seems like it might be possible, if a customer requested. 

But then there's the question of the escape motors...the original DC crew proposal was already trying to decide between hybrids or switching to liquids.  I thought perhaps they would ditch those entirely since there was no crew to save.  That weight savings might be important to enable the folding wings.

I suppose you could blow the fairing, cut loose the DC, and hope its flight software could somehow figure out a way to recover, unpowered, from whatever nasty angle of attack / stall / spin it found itself in, and land somewhere (back at KSC in the best of all possible worlds) or ditch at sea.

Offline a_langwich

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #262 on: 01/15/2016 02:58 am »
But, if the land-landing Dragon requires Super Dracos and is thus a Dragon V2

Yup, and land-landing doesn't necessarily mean propulsive landing. Assuming nothing has changed since we last heard (I SAID, assuming nothing has changed since we last heard) they'll be coming down under parachute and just pop the SDs for landing deceleration ala Soyuz.


Ah yes, I forgot that.  In that case, could a longer burn of plain Dracos on a Dragon V1 also suffice to soften the landing, or do they not have the fuel/positioning/oomph to do the trick?

Whatever happened to Armadillo Aerospace's GPS-steered parafoil scheme?  Is that heavier than SuperDracos plus fuel plus conventional parachutes?  Is Dragon V2 too heavy for that sort of scheme?  Or is it (in)capable of handling wind environments like the ones around Kennedy?

You want a winged landing vehicle?  MWUHAHA!  I wonder if someone has photoshopped an old classic finned car, say a '57 Chrysler 300C or '59 Cadillac, onto the Dream Chaser photos?
« Last Edit: 01/15/2016 03:09 am by a_langwich »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #263 on: 01/15/2016 03:12 am »
Ah yes, I forgot that.  In that case, could a longer burn of plain Dracos on a Dragon V1 also suffice to soften the landing, or do they not have the fuel/positioning/oomph to do the trick?

Much too weak.

Quote from: a_langwich
Whatever happened to Armadillo Aerospace's GPS-steered parafoil scheme?

It pre-dates them by a few decades, but it's a fine option. I've no idea why it's always a bridesmaid.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline bad_astra

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #264 on: 01/15/2016 03:14 am »
so no need for the either/or battle anymore!

I admire your optimism. But I don't think anything will stop most of the arguments that occur perpetually around here  :P

Happy announcements are often protected from overheating on reentry by a thick ablative layer of wet blankets. :D


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Online rsnellenberger

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #265 on: 01/15/2016 03:34 am »
No vehicles provide un-pressurized downmass...
A case similar to the Apollo Lunar Sample Return Container and sized to fit the Kibo airlock (0.64×0.83×0.80 m, <300 kg) could support un-pressurized downmass for any of the vehicles.  Obviously, as you move from berthing (CBM) to docking (IDSS) to Soyuz ride-along (RSP), the case size would be different.


Offline darkenfast

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #266 on: 01/15/2016 04:01 am »
Unless Cargo Dream Chaser can separate from its back-end and de-orbit separately, that vehicle is going to have to land at the same kind of locations that Dragon will land at once it has its land-landing sorted out.  They simply are not going to dispose of either the Dragon's trunk or the DC back-end over land.
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #267 on: 01/15/2016 04:37 am »
Orbital ATK are saying the value of their contract is $1.2B to $1.5B.

http://www.orbitalatk.com/news-room/release.asp?prid=112

NASA Selects Orbital ATK for New 8-Year Contract to Deliver Cargo to the International Space Station

-- CRS-2 Contract Includes Initial Order for Six Cargo Missions  to ISS Beginning in 2019 --

-- Company Offers NASA Flexible Mission Options with Cygnus Spacecraft Capable of Launching Aboard Antares and Atlas Rockets --

Dulles, Virginia 14 January 2016 – Orbital ATK, Inc. (NYSE: OA), a global leader in aerospace and defense technologies, today announced it has been selected by NASA for a second contract to provide commercial cargo delivery and disposal services to and from the International Space Station (ISS). Under the Commercial Resupply Services-2 (CRS-2) contract, the company was awarded six initial cargo missions, valued at about $1.2-$1.5 billion, to be carried out beginning in 2019.  Depending on the spacecraft/launch vehicle configurations used, these initial missions will deliver approximately 22,500-26,500 kilograms (or 49,000-58,000 pounds) of supplies and equipment to the orbiting laboratory. Later in the contract, NASA may award additional missions for the 2021-2024 period based on operational requirements of the ISS.

For the upcoming CRS-2 missions, Orbital ATK’s Cygnus™ spacecraft can be carried into orbit by either the company’s upgraded Antares™ launch vehicle or United Launch Alliance’s Atlas V rocket. This option enables NASA to better tailor future missions to meet specific ISS operational requirements, as well as demonstrating the flexibility of the Cygnus spacecraft for cargo supply to the ISS.

“We are grateful for NASA’s continued confidence in our ability to provide reliable and affordable commercial cargo transportation services to the International Space Station,” said David W. Thompson, Orbital ATK’s President and Chief Executive Officer. “With our flexible cargo delivery system now up and running, our team is well prepared to deliver essential supplies to the International Space Station for years to come.”

Orbital ATK has already delivered approximately 7,300 kilograms (or 16,000 pounds) of cargo to the ISS during four successful missions since 2013. Its next CRS mission (called “OA-6”) is scheduled for launch in March aboard an Atlas V rocket from Cape Canaveral, Florida.  The OA-6 mission will again utilize an enhanced Cygnus spacecraft capable of carrying over 40% more cargo by incorporating a larger pressurized cargo module than the previous design. For the upcoming mission, Cygnus will deliver approximately 3,500 kilograms (7,700 pounds) of cargo to the ISS.

“This second CRS contract award reinforces Orbital ATK’s role as a trusted partner to NASA with a proven cargo delivery and disposal service that continues to support the important work being performed aboard the ISS,” said Frank Culbertson, President of Orbital ATK’s Space Systems Group. “Our goal for both CRS-1 and CRS-2 remains unchanged, which is to support the needs of the crew members aboard the ISS with 100 percent mission success and schedule certainty.”

For all upcoming missions under the CRS-1 and CRS-2 contracts, Orbital ATK will use the enhanced Cygnus design. In addition to its larger pressurized cargo module that allows increased cargo capacity, the enhanced Cygnus incorporates high-performance UltraFlex™ solar arrays designed and manufactured by the company’s Space Components Division in Goleta, California.

“By utilizing the flexibility of our Cygnus spacecraft, combined with a mixed fleet of launch vehicles, Orbital ATK is providing NASA a complete portfolio of mission options to fulfill their cargo delivery needs,” said Culbertson.

CRS-2 missions to be launched aboard the company’s upgraded Antares rocket will originate from the Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport (MARS) located at NASA’s Wallops Flight Facility in eastern Virginia. With support from NASA and Orbital ATK, MARS has completed repairs and upgrades to the Pad 0A launch complex for compatibility with the new Antares configuration. The upgraded Antares will be powered by dual RD-181 main stage engines and a modified first stage core structure that provide increased lift capacity to enable greater payloads as compared to the original Antares design.

“The upgraded Antares is currently undergoing integration with the new RD-181 engines fully installed into the first stage of the rocket,” said Scott Lehr, President of Orbital ATK’s Flight Systems Group. “We remain on schedule for Antares launches to resume in the second quarter of 2016.”
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Offline jongoff

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #268 on: 01/15/2016 04:56 am »
Unless Cargo Dream Chaser can separate from its back-end and de-orbit separately, that vehicle is going to have to land at the same kind of locations that Dragon will land at once it has its land-landing sorted out.  They simply are not going to dispose of either the Dragon's trunk or the DC back-end over land.

DC has a much, much higher L/D than Dragon, and a lot more cross range. The cargo module would be reentering ballistically. They probably have a lot of flexibility in where DC lands relative to where its cargo module burns up and debris lands.

~Jon

Online yg1968

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #269 on: 01/15/2016 05:06 am »
http://www.orbitalatk.com/news-room/release.asp?prid=112

NASA Selects Orbital ATK for New 8-Year Contract to Deliver Cargo to the International Space Station

Under the Commercial Resupply Services-2 (CRS-2) contract, the company was awarded six initial cargo missions, valued at about $1.2-$1.5 billion, to be carried out beginning in 2019.  Depending on the spacecraft/launch vehicle configurations used, these initial missions will deliver approximately 22,500-26,500 kilograms (or 49,000-58,000 pounds) of supplies and equipment to the orbiting laboratory. Later in the contract, NASA may award additional missions for the 2021-2024 period based on operational requirements of the ISS.

Orbital/ATK's prices went down under CRS2. Under CRS1, the cost was $1.9B for 20mt of upmass cargo.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2016 05:08 am by yg1968 »

Offline arachnitect

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #270 on: 01/15/2016 05:42 am »
Orbital ATK are saying the value of their contract is $1.2B to $1.5B.

http://www.orbitalatk.com/news-room/release.asp?prid=112

 Depending on the spacecraft/launch vehicle configurations used, these initial missions will deliver approximately 22,500-26,500 kilograms (or 49,000-58,000 pounds) of supplies and equipment to the orbiting laboratory.

That's up to 4400 kg. per mission... crikey. How are they going to squeeze that in?

Quote
Later in the contract, NASA may award additional missions for the 2021-2024 period based on operational requirements of the ISS.

6 OA missions by 2021... Is OrbATK getting off ramped?

Quote
For all upcoming missions under the CRS-1 and CRS-2 contracts, Orbital ATK will use the enhanced Cygnus design.

No UCM or "super Cygnus" ? :(

Offline JAFO

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #271 on: 01/15/2016 05:44 am »
Thank you, St. Leibowitz, we're still Dreamin' down here. And soon, up there.



Question: how hard would it be to upgrade from an unmanned DC cargo vehicle to a crewed vehicle? Say they did a few flights, worked out the inevitable bugs and NASA said How about we.....

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Offline jacqmans

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #272 on: 01/15/2016 05:47 am »
NASA Selects Sierra Nevada Corporation’s Dream Chaser® Spacecraft
for Commercial Resupply Services 2 Contract

SPARKS, Nev. (January 14, 2016) – Today, NASA competitively selected Sierra Nevada Corporation’s (SNC) Space Systems to receive a multi-year contract to provide cargo delivery, return and disposal services for the International Space Station (ISS). SNC received a Commercial Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) contract, to fulfill a minimum of six cargo delivery service missions to and from the ISS utilizing SNC’s Dream Chaser Cargo System. NASA’s selection of SNC for the CRS2 program will enable spacecraft reusability and runway landings for United States’ cargo delivery and access to the ISS through 2024.

“SNC is honored to be selected by NASA for this critical U.S. program,” said Eren Ozmen, president of Sierra Nevada Corporation. “In such a major competition, we are truly humbled by the show of confidence in SNC and look forward to successfully demonstrating the extensive capabilities of the Dream Chaser spacecraft to the world. SNC’s receipt of this award is an American Dream come true for all of us. We thank NASA, the Administration and Congress for recognizing the importance of this vital program by supporting the CRS2 contract.” 

SNC is the owner and prime operator of the reusable Dream Chaser spacecraft, which has been in development for over 10 years, including six years as part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program and leverages over 40 years of NASA development and space shuttle heritage.

“The Dream Chaser Cargo System offers NASA a safe, reliable and affordable solution for ISS cargo delivery, return and disposal, ensuring the effective utilization and sustainability of the ISS for years to come,” said Mark N. Sirangelo, corporate vice president of SNC’s Space Systems. “Within a few short years, the world will once again see a United States winged vehicle launch and return from space to a runway landing.  We wanted to thank our more than 30 industry, university, international and NASA center partners for helping us make history and open up the next generation of spaceflight.”

SNC’s Dream Chaser Cargo System features include:
•An innovative folding-wing design which allows the Dream Chaser spacecraft to fit inside existing launch vehicle fairings, making it compatible with a diverse suite of rockets and assuring access to space
•The ability to simultaneously deliver 5,500 kg of pressurized and unpressurized cargo to the ISS, which exceeds NASA’s CRS2 RFP requirements
•High reusability that reduces costs and enables quick reflight. Responsive pressurized cargo return capability – ensuring scientific experiments are promptly returned to the researchers as intended and without contamination
•Low-g reentry and gentle runway landing – critical for the return of sensitive payloads, scientific experiments and immediate access to cargo
•All non-toxic propellants and consumables, making the Dream Chaser spacecraft the first vehicle in history to achieve this level of environmental responsibility


The Dream Chaser program will continue to be based in Louisville, Colorado. SNC expects to significantly expand operations in Colorado and throughout the United States, in conjunction with its international partners, to support contract requirements. The growing employment scope and economic impact of SNC and its partner organizations – the Dream Team – now spans over 25 states and 15 countries and will continue to grow under the CRS2 contract.

More information about SNC’s Dream Chaser program can be found at www.SNCspace.com.
 
Jacques :-)


Offline Star One

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #274 on: 01/15/2016 06:27 am »

To reiterate, NASA will be able to select a propulsive Dragon return with the same upper bound of timeframe of delivery of samples (three hours) as DreamChaser.  quick return of samples is not a capability unique to DreamChaser.

You cannot land a Dragon in as many places as you could land a DC should the need arise.
Unproven assertion, and unproven that such a need exists at all (let alone for quick return of samples).  As far as we know all NASA DC flights will land at KSC.

There was talk about using DC for a gentle return profile for medical emergencies, obviously that doesn't apply to a cargo craft.

Low G required return though does apply for the return of certain scientific payloads. Something that went away with the ending of Shuttle usage.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #275 on: 01/15/2016 06:41 am »
I think that John Muratore and the other folks that worked the X-38 had a bit of a smile today for their lifting body efforts, even though presently he works at SpaceX and doubly so with their win... Now that SNC has a contract to develop a cargo version, how will Mark's "manned" efforts with the international parties he play out. We still have the talk of Bigelow post ISS, orbital tourism and logistics...
« Last Edit: 01/15/2016 06:55 am by Rocket Science »
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Offline Star One

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #276 on: 01/15/2016 06:54 am »

I think that John Muratore and the other folks that worked the X-38 had a bit of a smile today for their lifting body efforts. Even though presently he works at SpaceX and doubly so with their win... Now that SNC has a contract to develop a cargo version, how will Mark's "manned" efforts with the international parties he play out. We still have the talk of Bigelow post ISS, orbital tourism and logistics...

I would hope so. Not for them to rest on their laurels no matter how well earned they are.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #277 on: 01/15/2016 07:45 am »
In an unmanned mode, the problems of designing a launch escape system aren't required (although DCC will have one to save itself).

Oh, do we know that?  That would require payload fairing separation, payload separation from the rocket, DC separation from trunk, wing deployment, and large quantities of DC deltaV that would not be used otherwise.  Has Atlas added the capability to jettison the payload fairing upon emergency detection (and will it even jettison properly in higher dynamic pressure?), and separate the payload?  Seems like it might be possible, if a customer requested.

But then there's the question of the escape motors...the original DC crew proposal was already trying to decide between hybrids or switching to liquids.  I thought perhaps they would ditch those entirely since there was no crew to save.  That weight savings might be important to enable the folding wings.

I suppose you could blow the fairing, cut loose the DC, and hope its flight software could somehow figure out a way to recover, unpowered, from whatever nasty angle of attack / stall / spin it found itself in, and land somewhere (back at KSC in the best of all possible worlds) or ditch at sea.

IIRC the Dreamchaser Cargo goes up in a fairing with folded wings and is a smaller version of the crewed Dreanchaser. So it doesn't seem to be worthwhile to have a launch escape capability. Which IIRC is not a NASA requirement and requires more cash & time to acquired.

Offline dkovacic

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #278 on: 01/15/2016 09:41 am »
It seems to me that the big winners of CRS-2 are SNC and ULA. DreamChaser finally got a lifeline to keep the dream alive. And SNC will have to self-fund all the remaining development.

ULA had no part in CRS-1 initially, and only due to Antares failure it got into the game. Now in CRS-2 they got at least six flights of Atlas V 552 (the most expensive variant) and 0-6 flights of Atlas V 401.

OrbitalATK reduced their pricing, they have probably bid their Cygnus/Antares at 200 million and Cygnus/AtlasV at 250 million per mission. Probably they aimed to be price competitive with SpaceX CRS-1 pricing.

SpaceX seems to be a "big loser" between the winners. They had 12 launches in original CRS-1 and now they are down to 6. We should not expect much of the additional flights either as the goal is to keep number of visiting vehicles as low as possible. I can see two possible reasons for this: bias against SpaceX having too much business with NASA (they are already near 5% of NASA budget, with primary focus on ISS) and pressurized volume constraint.

Offline Antilope7724

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Re: NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016
« Reply #279 on: 01/15/2016 11:28 am »
I think NASA's choice is great. Congrats to SNC, Orbital ATK and SpaceX. Between commercial cargo and commercial crew this seems to be a really effective diverse fleet of U.S. space vehicles to serve the ISS.

Add to this the SLS / Orion and it seems like all bases are covered for U.S. crewed flight.

To some this would be the "real" space program that was envisioned if the moon race had never happened.

Now all we need is continued funding to sustain it all.

I wonder if the Air Force will take a look at the Dream Chaser for non-ISS uses? They sure seem to find the X-37B quite useful.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2016 11:50 am by Antilope7724 »

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