NASA CRS2 Contract Award Announcement - Jan 14, 2016

[rayleighscatter]

I'll be really interested to find out what the costs of each of the providers, winners and losers, was.  I guess we'll likely only ever learn about the winning bids.

I'm also interested to learn the milestones scheduled for cargo Dream Chaser development and when it is expected to be ready.

I'm not sure we'll ever get lump sum numbers. It sounds like NASA will go through this a bit more incrementally exercising various options along the way. So instead of one large pot for a basic service I guess we may have to add up the numbers as the contract goes along.


And on another note doing a little back of envelope math there should be about 22-26 missions depending on exactly when it starts and when ISS ends and with 6 guaranteed to each that leaves 4-8 missions up for grabs.

[Rocket Science]

Cygnus has a lot of potential as a hab module so I'm glad to see them in the mix and keeping it in production.

[yg1968]

I am really happy about the awards. It's exactly what I predicted and what I was hoping for. Too bad you can't bet on CRS winners... Now If could only predict the next Super Bowl winner...   

[spacekscblog]

If not already available elsewhere, I've uploaded the video of the event to my YouTube channel at:

[Political Hack Wannabe]

3 Cargo and two Crew vehicles. We could literally begin LEO and Cis-Lunar colonization procedures.

My goodness, does this all open up a world of possibilities. Looks like Bigelow won't have to wait too much longer for the all the infrastructure he needs to be in place.

Bigelows only option is Dragon. Just look at the price tag of Cygnus. DC is launching on Atlas, it won't be cheap.

If SpaceX get reusability down & Atlas can't compete, there may be no Atlas by the time CRS2 starts flying.

Launch contracts take longer than that. USAF needs Atlas still.

Greater push then for Vulcan???

[Robotbeat]

What Atlas V variant will Dreamchaser use? How many solids, and will they use the dual-engine centaur? (I'd bet no for the last one.)

[sdsds]

my only concern is whether the cargo return redundancy and dissimilar capabilities will be worth the price

I think you have to ask the guys and gals who need that cargo home safe for, you know, everything they've invested their entire adult life in achieving.

[yg1968]

I am not convinced that DC is more expensive than it's competitors. For CCtCap, SNC had a very competitive bid. I would expect the same from SNC for CRS2. I suspect that DC is very competitive with Orbital/ATK.

I am also not conviced that adding a third provider adds much to the overall cost of CRS2. These kind of issues should be discussed in the source selection statement (except that the numbers will be redacted). 

[robertross]

I figured I'd find the announcement covered here on the main news page. Thanks for the great article & background.

My sincere congrats to SNC for their award, and a thank-you to NASA for seeing the value in dissimilar redundancy. Now we have a chance to get some unique samples back from the ISS with a gentle landing (before we lose the ISS).

It's also a great day for the Atlas team to get some added flights, which is always good (to see that venerable rocket take off).

And what else can I say but well done to SpaceX & Orbital ATK on their contracts.

Good news all around.

[Newton_V]

What Atlas V variant will Dreamchaser use? How many solids, and will they use the dual-engine centaur? (I'd bet no for the last one.)

How much?  $$

[a_langwich]

I wonder when we'll finally see DC's first flight test firmed up.

I think you're kind of downplaying the capabilities that DC brings to the table for ISS cargo, especially in the rapid return of science.

Buried in the side notes about whether the Dragon landing was on land or at sea was a comment (by Scimemi) about how Dragon turnaround could be three hours, as well, if it was the land version.

But, if the land-landing Dragon requires Super Dracos and is thus a Dragon V2 and is therefore docked and not berthed...

one of the docking slots will always be filled by a Commercial Crew vehicle being used as a lifeboat, no?  So I wonder how often NASA would be willing to forego the use of its other people-capable docking slot just for a cargo mission.  I guess it would only be between handovers, but then that creates a scheduling dependency between the missions, and the ISS already has an overabundance of those.

Scimemi extolled the virtue of not having to spend all the crew time using the robotic arm, on docking, which makes me think NASA is ready to be less conservative and support more automatic rendezvous and docking.

ATV docked...did it use the larger cargo-sized opening?  Or did it have the smaller opening?

Scimemi also talked about how the larger cargo capacity for CRS-2 would mean fewer flights, but the target is one per calendar quarter--isn't that about the same pace as is done now, or slightly faster?

[MattMason]

I am not a DreamChaser fan.

Big win for ULA Atlas. They got 1/3, and maybe even 2/3 if Orbital decides.

People may call me cynical, but I think all of the effusive affection for Dream Chaser is misplaced adoration for the shuttle. Personally, I loathed the shuttle, so I kind of loathe Dream Chaser.

The Space Shuttle Orbiter's design was a result of decades of testing. Save the fragility of the thermal protection system, the Orbiter was a very sound design--and, in my opinion, beautiful. It was the integration of the side external tank and solids, with a lack of a LES, that formed a vehicle that threatened the lives of every crew time and time again.

As the X-15 and many other winged experimental spacecraft have shown, winged spacecraft do have a place in certain circumstances. In an unmanned mode, the problems of designing a launch escape system aren't required (although DCC will have one to save itself).

Nothing wrong with wings or capsules. The only thing wrong is poor choices involved in their purpose.

This is not a poor choice. The synergy between three LVs, three cargo craft and three companies all but ensure that not only ISS will have routine cargo and a reboost outside of the Russians, but add that extra clearing of the brush and rocks to a future infrastructure for building and suppling other LEO ventures. Everyone wins with this contract.

[pathfinder_01]

Scimemi extolled the virtue of not having to spend all the crew time using the robotic arm, on docking, which makes me think NASA is ready to be less conservative and support more automatic rendezvous and docking.

ATV docked...did it use the larger cargo-sized opening?  Or did it have the smaller opening?

Scimemi also talked about how the larger cargo capacity for CRS-2 would mean fewer flights, but the target is one per calendar quarter--isn't that about the same pace as is done now, or slightly faster?

ATV  docked on the Russian side, not the US side like some of the cargo craft will.  There addition of an crew member and the loss of ATV means more supplies have to get up using commercial cargo.

[a_langwich]

I'd love to see Cygnus fly with the unpressurized logistics module, but I doubt that will happen.

I don't know, that's a totally unique capability, probably the only capability to launch large replacement items.    Sometime in the next eight years such a capability might well be needed.

I could see NASA ordering one, just to have the long lead-time items manufactured for a LON capability.

[vt_hokie]

I am not a DreamChaser fan.

Big win for ULA Atlas. They got 1/3, and maybe even 2/3 if Orbital decides.

People may call me cynical, but I think all of the effusive affection for Dream Chaser is misplaced adoration for the shuttle. Personally, I loathed the shuttle, so I kind of loathe Dream Chaser.

I wouldn't welcome a post that simply says "Boooo!"

But Boooooooo!

As a long-time lifting body spaceplane fan, needless to say I'm thrilled!  But the great thing is that we now have a situation where there's a promising future for a diverse fleet of vehicles, so no need for the either/or battle anymore!

[NovaSilisko]

so no need for the either/or battle anymore!

I admire your optimism. But I don't think anything will stop most of the arguments that occur perpetually around here 

[Robotbeat]

What Atlas V variant will Dreamchaser use? How many solids, and will they use the dual-engine centaur? (I'd bet no for the last one.)

How much?  $$

Answering my own question: looks like they'll use the heaviest Atlas V, 5 solids and 2 rl10s according to their video. The most capable but definitely the most expensive variant. About what a Falcon 9 full thrust can do expendably.

A mostly reusable Falcon 9 gives Atlas V a run for its money, though. Combined with a landing Dragon, this is a tough combination to beat.

[yg1968]

I am not a DreamChaser fan.

Big win for ULA Atlas. They got 1/3, and maybe even 2/3 if Orbital decides.

People may call me cynical, but I think all of the effusive affection for Dream Chaser is misplaced adoration for the shuttle. Personally, I loathed the shuttle, so I kind of loathe Dream Chaser.

I wouldn't welcome a post that simply says "Boooo!"

But Boooooooo!

DC Hugger!

[QuantumG]

But, if the land-landing Dragon requires Super Dracos and is thus a Dragon V2

Yup, and land-landing doesn't necessarily mean propulsive landing. Assuming nothing has changed since we last heard (I SAID, assuming nothing has changed since we last heard) they'll be coming down under parachute and just pop the SDs for landing deceleration ala Soyuz.

[yg1968]

But, if the land-landing Dragon requires Super Dracos and is thus a Dragon V2

Yup, and land-landing doesn't necessarily mean propulsive landing. Assuming nothing has changed since we last heard (I SAID, assuming nothing has changed since we last heard) they'll be coming down under parachute and just pop the SDs for landing deceleration ala Soyuz.

We will see. Testing full propulsive landing on cargo flights makes a lot of sense. It's a lot risker with crew on board and would require certification which is a cumbersome process.