Author Topic: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine  (Read 170395 times)

Offline OnWithTheShow

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Interesting, is Raptor becoming a US upgrade for F9 and FH?


http://www.losangeles.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123466879

1/13/2016 - LOS ANGELES AIR FORCE BASE, Calif.  -- Today the Space and Missile Systems Center awarded the first two Other Transaction Agreements (OTAs) for shared public-private investments in Rocket Propulsion System (RPS) prototypes to SpaceX for development testing of the Raptor upper stage engine and Orbital ATK for development of the Common Booster Segment main stage, the Graphite Epoxy Motor (GEM) 63XL strap-on booster, and an extendable nozzle for Blue Origin's BE-3U/EN upper stage engine.  The initial government contribution to the SpaceX OTA is $33.6 million.  The initial government contribution to the Orbital ATK OTA is $46.9 million.  The Air Force is still in negotiations with the remaining offerors and subsequent awards, if any, will occur over the next few months.  The OTA awards are part of a comprehensive Air Force plan to transition off the Russian- supplied RD-180 propulsion system used on the Atlas V rocket by investing in industry solutions with the ultimate goal to competitively procure launch services in a domestic launch market.

"Having two or more domestic, commercially viable launch providers that also meet national security space requirements is our end goal," said Lt. Gen. Samuel Greaves, the Air Force's Program Executive Officer for Space and SMC commander.  "These awards are essential in order to solidify U.S. assured access to space, transition the EELV program away from strategic foreign reliance, and support the U.S. launch industry's commercial viability in the global market."

The Air Force will award a portfolio of investments in industry's RPS solutions, which vary depending on what industry proposed.  The solicitation allowed companies to submit proposals for the development of a RPS prototype, which ranged from full development of a new RPS, modifications to an existing RPS to meet NSS requirements, smaller projects to address high risk items for an RPS or subcomponents, or activities required to test or qualify a new or existing RPS to meet EELV requirements.  Therefore, the value of each agreement varies depending on what was proposed. At least one third of the total cost of the RPS prototype project will be paid out of funds provided by parties to the transactions other than the federal government.

These RPS investments, which will initially occur over the course of 12-18 months, will build the foundation for future investments in industry launch system solutions and launch service commitments from invested companies.  Concurrently, the Air Force will continue to award launch services contracts to certified providers who demonstrate the capability to design, produce, qualify, and deliver launch systems and provide the mission assurance support required to deliver national security space satellites to orbit.

Air Force Space Command's Space and Missile Systems Center, located at Los Angeles Air Force Base, Calif., is the U.S. Air Force's center of acquisition excellence for acquiring and developing military space systems. Its portfolio includes the Global Positioning System, Military Satellite Communications, Defense Meteorological Satellites, Space Launch and Range Systems, Satellite Control Networks, Space Based Infrared Systems and Space Situational Awareness capabilities.

Offline ArbitraryConstant

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #1 on: 01/13/2016 10:18 pm »
Nice find!

"Raptor upper stage engine" does seem to suggest something nearer term than BFR...

Offline ScepticMatt

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #2 on: 01/13/2016 10:31 pm »
Nice find!

"Raptor upper stage engine" does seem to suggest something nearer term than BFR...
Quote
This other transaction agreement requires shared cost investment with SpaceX for the development of a prototype of the Raptor engine for the upper stage of the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles. The locations of performance are NASA Stennis Space Center, Mississippi; Hawthorne, California; and Los Angeles Air Force Base, California. The work is expected to be completed no later than Dec. 31, 2018
http://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/642983
« Last Edit: 01/13/2016 10:33 pm by ScepticMatt »

Offline yg1968

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Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #4 on: 01/13/2016 10:59 pm »
This seems pretty huge to me.  There was talk long ago about a Raptor-powered upper stage for Falcon 9/Falcon Heavy, but I think that was back when Raptor was a hydrolox engine.  Lately, we had heard that Raptor was only for BFR.

The fact that SpaceX has signed a contract and accepted millions in government money saying it's for an upper stage engine for F9/FH means they must really be serious about doing it.

And a new upper stage could mean a reusable upper stage.  Exciting!
« Last Edit: 01/13/2016 11:00 pm by ChrisWilson68 »

Offline rocx

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #5 on: 01/13/2016 11:10 pm »
To me this does not indicate that SpaceX is planning to use the Raptor as an upper stage engine for the Falcon family in the near future. It just indicates that the Air Force thinks Raptor would be suitable as an upper stage engine for their use, which makes sense with its higher ISP than kerolox engines.
Any day with a rocket landing is a fantastic day.

Offline ArbitraryConstant

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #6 on: 01/13/2016 11:14 pm »
To me this does not indicate that SpaceX is planning to use the Raptor as an upper stage engine for the Falcon family in the near future. It just indicates that the Air Force thinks Raptor would be suitable as an upper stage engine for their use, which makes sense with its higher ISP than kerolox engines.
That would be my intuition but ScepticMatt points out that the award "requires shared cost investment with SpaceX for the development of a prototype of the Raptor engine for the upper stage of the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles". So that's about as clear cut as you can get.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #7 on: 01/13/2016 11:15 pm »
To me this does not indicate that SpaceX is planning to use the Raptor as an upper stage engine for the Falcon family in the near future. It just indicates that the Air Force thinks Raptor would be suitable as an upper stage engine for their use, which makes sense with its higher ISP than kerolox engines.

The text from the Air Force is very specific.  It says, "the Raptor engine for the upper stage of the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles."  That's near-future to me.

Offline rocx

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #8 on: 01/13/2016 11:23 pm »
To me this does not indicate that SpaceX is planning to use the Raptor as an upper stage engine for the Falcon family in the near future. It just indicates that the Air Force thinks Raptor would be suitable as an upper stage engine for their use, which makes sense with its higher ISP than kerolox engines.
That would be my intuition but ScepticMatt points out that the award "requires shared cost investment with SpaceX for the development of a prototype of the Raptor engine for the upper stage of the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles". So that's about as clear cut as you can get.
Ok, I missed that and stand corrected. I remain slightly sceptical, if the contract does not require them to build a Raptor upper stage but only develop the engine there is still no hurry for SpaceX. And besides, SpaceX hasn't announced the BFR officially yet, so maybe in order to get the contract they have to refer to their existing launchers.
I'm not saying it's not going to happen, just that this one contract does not prove everything. Either way, a prototype Raptor ready by 2018 is very interesting news. That could mean a Raptor-powered upper stage/BFR/MCT/test vehicle just a few years after that.
Any day with a rocket landing is a fantastic day.

Offline yg1968

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #9 on: 01/13/2016 11:25 pm »
This engine will have to be made available to other U.S. launch providers per 1604(a)(2)(E) of the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act:

Quote
9 SEC. 1604. ROCKET PROPULSION SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT
10 PROGRAM.


11 (a) DEVELOPMENT.—
12 (1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary of Defense
13 shall develop a next-generation rocket propulsion
14 system that enables the effective, efficient, and expe-
15 dient transition from the use of non-allied space
16 launch engines to a domestic alternative for national
17 security space launches.
18 (2) REQUIREMENTS.—The system developed
19 under paragraph (1) shall—
20 (A) be made in the United States;
21 (B) meet the requirements of the national
22 security space community;
23 (C) be developed by not later than 2019;
24 (D) be developed using full and open com-
25 petition; and
1 (E) be available for purchase by all space
2 launch providers of the United States.

http://armedservices.house.gov/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=926D63B6-5E50-49FC-99EF-A59B98825265
« Last Edit: 01/14/2016 12:05 am by yg1968 »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #10 on: 01/13/2016 11:26 pm »
Checks the date. Nope, not April 1 yet. This just gets weirder and weirder. Why would SpaceX do this?

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline CuddlyRocket

Won't the Raptor be a bit over-powered for the US of an F9 or FH resulting in excessive acceleration near propellant depletion? (Though that does depend on how much it can throttle down.)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #12 on: 01/13/2016 11:43 pm »
I doubt SpaceX would develop a dramatically new upper stage (as in different engine and prop combo) that wasn't reusable. 5 (metaphorical) bucks says this Raptor-based upper stage will be designed for reuse, if it ever comes to pass.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline GalacticIntruder

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #13 on: 01/13/2016 11:43 pm »
A new U/S pops out of nowhere? No doubt Musk and team thought about it before,  and decided to bring in the AF for some cost sharing, instead of private only.  My guess is that 185 mil dollars in potential investments would be good for Engineering tools, and Raptor specific fab tools, like those 3D metal printers. Might be worth the effort for a prototype, and prototype only, that could be leveraged for the real Raptor, that has been teased for years.

The FH could benefit from a 380 isp methalox upper stage, though. Might actually get to the mythical 53mT (tonne) target.
"And now the Sun will fade, All we are is all we made." Breaking Benjamin

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #14 on: 01/13/2016 11:45 pm »
Umm.. I'm actually thinking that a new upper stage for Falcon 9 spells death for Falcon Heavy.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #15 on: 01/13/2016 11:51 pm »
Umm.. I'm actually thinking that a new upper stage for Falcon 9 spells death for Falcon Heavy.
I wouldn't be surprised by that. F9 full thrust, a few tweaks here and there to get a little more thrust from the Merlins, plus a big Raptor upper stage should beat almost every other launch vehicle.

I bet: F9 and Falcon Heavy for the next three years, then a transition to Raptor for upper stage in 2018-2018 timeframe followed by BFR debut in 2020-21, phasing out Falcon Heavy so there's just F9 w/Raptor upper and BFR with Raptor upper. Both fully reusable.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline docmordrid

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #16 on: 01/13/2016 11:53 pm »
A new U/S pops out of nowhere?

In June 2015 congressional testimony SpaceX's Jeff Thornburg said Raptor could be used in existing EELV vehicles, so it's not a total curve ball.
« Last Edit: 01/13/2016 11:53 pm by docmordrid »
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Offline rayleighscatter

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #17 on: 01/14/2016 12:01 am »
I wonder if this will force SpaceX into a patent now as well. If it's required to be made available for sale it means it would also be available for reverse engineering.

Online Coastal Ron

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #18 on: 01/14/2016 12:07 am »
I bet: F9 and Falcon Heavy for the next three years, then a transition to Raptor for upper stage in 2018-2018 timeframe followed by BFR debut in 2020-21...

Wow, that seems aggressive, since they don't even have a factory or a known launch location (assuming it's not one they already have).  But I understand how you can think that because of how fast Musk has shown he can move on things when he decides to pursue a course of action - as he did with the $5B Tesla Gigafactory.

As far as Raptor and the Falcon Heavy, I guess it depends how much the Falcon Heavy figure into the preparatory work that they want to do on Mars before committing to only using the BFR.  Otherwise it's not too likely a large demand for Falcon Heavy-only payloads requiring a Raptor upper stage will appear on the marketplace.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline RonM

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Re: Air Force Awards SpaceX OTA for Raptor Upper Stage Engine
« Reply #19 on: 01/14/2016 12:07 am »
I wonder if this will force SpaceX into a patent now as well. If it's required to be made available for sale it means it would also be available for reverse engineering.

SpaceX will have to make the engine available to all United States launch providers, but that doesn't mean the contracts can't have clauses to protect SpaceX IP. No need to file patents and show the rest of the world if they don't want to.

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