Author Topic: New Frontiers 4  (Read 91325 times)

Offline Star One

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #60 on: 12/09/2016 09:15 PM »
Officially announced.

Press release  https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-solicits-proposals-for-future-robotic-solar-system-exploration-mission/

AO site https://newfrontiers.larc.nasa.gov/

With Titan I wouldn't mind seeing something developed off of Titan Mare Explorer. Especially as it seems a better fit for New Frontiers.
« Last Edit: 12/09/2016 09:16 PM by Star One »

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #61 on: 12/09/2016 09:45 PM »
NF-4 technology TRL presentations drop: https://newfrontiers.larc.nasa.gov/technology_workshop_agenda.html

Some presentations are currently not available so if anyone has contacts with LaRC please let them know that some links are broken or missing (FOIA request might be required).
« Last Edit: 12/10/2016 05:09 PM by russianhalo117 »

Online redliox

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #62 on: 12/10/2016 12:08 AM »
Officially announced.

Press release  https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-solicits-proposals-for-future-robotic-solar-system-exploration-mission/

Quoting from the press release:
Quote
Investigations are limited to six mission themes based on the National Research Council’s planetary decadal survey, Visions and Voyages for Planetary Science in the Decade 2013-2022:

Comet Surface Sample Return
Lunar South Pole Aitken Basin Sample Return
Ocean Worlds (Titan and/or Enceladus)
Saturn Probe
Trojan Asteroid Tour and Rendezvous
Venus In Situ Explorer

So they're still focusing on that selection category we heard before (not that it isn't a bad list).

Hard to say which of these I'd favor.  If Lucy isn't picked for Discovery naturally I'd like to see a Trojan mission come out of this, but barring my interest in finding out what Trojans really are I think I'm equally split between the Lunar South Pole and Venus.  Reason: both are nearby but difficult targets, offer direct merit to Earth's evolution, and neither body has been studied from the surface in quite some time (by an American spacecraft).
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #63 on: 12/10/2016 05:47 AM »
NF-4 presentations drop:


To be precise, these are presentations on technology development. They are not presentations to NF-4.

Offline JH

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #64 on: 12/10/2016 07:35 AM »
NF-4 presentations drop: https://newfrontiers.larc.nasa.gov/technology_workshop_agenda.html

That thermoacoustic power converter (TAPC) is downright sexy. (presentation 13)

Online redliox

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #65 on: 01/05/2017 02:40 PM »
NASA apparently responded to commentary about the upcoming NF draf: https://newfrontiers.larc.nasa.gov/PDF_FILES/NASA-response-to-comments.pdf

Most it is dry material, but things like foreign instrument contribution and sample return requirements are brought up with a direct NASA retort given.
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
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Online redliox

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #66 on: 01/05/2017 03:22 PM »
Well now that the Discovery selection is done the focus may slowly turn toward New Frontiers especially since two targets may be revised in the roster: Trojans and Venus.  The former was selected over the later.

So, in one form or another, we'll presumably be seeing missions targeting:

Luna (South Pole)
Venus
Comets
Saturn
Titan
Enceladus

So in science circles it will soon be the Loonies versus the Venusians versus Deep Impact versus "the Titans" soon in the form of the VEXAG, OPAG, ect in a grand cerebral parody of the Cute King's army...

"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
-Tigatron

Offline yg1968

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #67 on: 05/06/2017 03:06 PM »
Quote from: NASA Press Release
NASA has received and is reviewing 12 proposals for future unmanned solar system exploration. The proposed missions of discovery – submitted under NASA’s New Frontiers program – will undergo scientific and technical review over the next seven months. The goal is to select a mission for flight in about two years, with launch in the mid-2020s.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-receives-proposals-for-future-solar-system-mission

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #68 on: 05/06/2017 03:23 PM »
redliox: "So, in one form or another, we'll presumably be seeing missions targeting:

Luna (South Pole)"

Just to clarify, it's the South Pole-Aitken basin, not the south pole.  The SPA basin extends from the south pole to the large crater Aitken at about 20 degrees south and takes its informal name from those features.  The actual sampling site is in the middle of the basin at about 60 degrees south. 

Online redliox

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #69 on: 05/06/2017 09:28 PM »
Just to clarify, it's the South Pole-Aitken basin, not the south pole.  The SPA basin extends from the south pole to the large crater Aitken at about 20 degrees south and takes its informal name from those features.  The actual sampling site is in the middle of the basin at about 60 degrees south.

What's known about the mission and the site?  The big significance regarding the SPAB I'm aware of is it being deep enough to nearly touch the lunar mantle and, in select spots of course, ice.  I'd like to see what's in mind.
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #70 on: 05/07/2017 12:53 AM »
What's known about the mission and the site?  The big significance regarding the SPAB I'm aware of is it being deep enough to nearly touch the lunar mantle and, in select spots of course, ice.  I'd like to see what's in mind.

MoonRise. My guess is that somebody has proposed a mission this time very similar to the one proposed last time.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #71 on: 05/07/2017 12:58 AM »
Well now that the Discovery selection is done the focus may slowly turn toward New Frontiers especially since two targets may be revised in the roster: Trojans and Venus.  The former was selected over the later.

So, in one form or another, we'll presumably be seeing missions targeting:

Luna (South Pole)
Venus
Comets
Saturn
Titan
Enceladus

I don't know why you assume "especially since two targets may be revised in the roster: Trojans and Venus.  The former was selected over the later." The Lucy mission will not accomplish the science outlined in the New Frontiers requirement.

I know of the existence of the following:

1 Venus mission proposal
1 SPAB proposal
1 Saturn Probe proposal
1 Comet sample return proposal
1 Titan helicopter proposal
1 Enceladus proposal (ELF)
at least two other Titan/Enceladus proposals

Of course, there are several more, but I don't know about them.

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #72 on: 05/07/2017 01:14 AM »
"What's known about the mission and the site? "

This was from LPSC in March:

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2017/pdf/1326.pdf

It hasn't changed much in 5 years of planning.  The goal is to sample the impact melt sheet from the SPA impact.  The most important single science goal is to date the impact.  I think it is considered less likely these days  that mantle material will be found.

Offline Archibald

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #73 on: 05/07/2017 09:01 AM »
What's known about the mission and the site?  The big significance regarding the SPAB I'm aware of is it being deep enough to nearly touch the lunar mantle and, in select spots of course, ice.  I'd like to see what's in mind.

MoonRise. My guess is that somebody has proposed a mission this time very similar to the one proposed last time.

One of the most unfortunate lunar mission proposal in recent history: while technically sound and interesting, over the last 15 years it has lost competition again and again. 
« Last Edit: 05/07/2017 09:01 AM by Archibald »
...you have been found guilty by the elders of the forum of a (imaginary) vendetta against Saint Elon - BLAAASPHEMER !

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #74 on: 05/07/2017 12:06 PM »
One of the most unfortunate lunar mission proposal in recent history: while technically sound and interesting, over the last 15 years it has lost competition again and again. 

I don't think it has been the same proposal and same team.

I have an article about it that I need to update and publish. When I talked to the PI a couple of years ago he explained that one of the major changes is that LRO data has removed a lot of uncertainty about the landing site. The early proposals included a lot of landing site uncertainty. They didn't know much about where they wanted to land or how safe it would be. LRO has produced really good photographic and other measurement data on sites, so now they can land with a lot of certainty. The abstract that Phil linked to above is all about site selection. Their lander and sampler mechanism have been developed and the sampler mechanism has been tested.

Although there are a lot of interesting NF mission options, I am partial to MoonRise and the South Pole Aitken Basin sample return mission. It would really answer a fundamental question in Earth-Moon science. If NASA doesn't do it, then I hope the Chinese do.
« Last Edit: 05/07/2017 12:07 PM by Blackstar »

Offline vjkane

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #75 on: 05/08/2017 07:32 PM »
I did a tally on possible New Frontiers proposals based on comments here and what I've seen elsewhere.

   Mission   Source
1   Enceladus Life Finder   OPAG 2017
2   Titan Orbiter   OPAG 2017
3   Enceladus/Titan   Blackstar
4   Enceladus/Titan   Blackstar
5   SPRITE   OPAG 2017
6   Trojan Tour and Rendezvous   AGU 2015
7   Comet Sample Return   A'Hearn
8   Comet Sample Return   A'Hearn
9   Comet Sample Return   A'Hearn
10   SPAB sample return   LPSC 2017
11   Venus   Homesteader
12      

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #76 on: 05/08/2017 07:49 PM »
I did a tally on possible New Frontiers proposals based on comments here and what I've seen elsewhere.

   Mission   Source
1   Enceladus Life Finder   OPAG 2017
2   Titan Orbiter   OPAG 2017
3   Enceladus/Titan   Blackstar
4   Enceladus/Titan   Blackstar
5   SPRITE   OPAG 2017
6   Trojan Tour and Rendezvous   AGU 2015
7   Comet Sample Return   A'Hearn
8   Comet Sample Return   A'Hearn
9   Comet Sample Return   A'Hearn
10   SPAB sample return   LPSC 2017
11   Venus   Homesteader
12      


Can you remind me what SPRITE is?

Mike A'Hearn would not be on three mission proposals. I know the PI for one of the comet sample return mission proposals and it is not A'Hearn. So maybe he is running another one?


Offline vjkane

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #77 on: 05/08/2017 07:54 PM »

Can you remind me what SPRITE is?

Mike A'Hearn would not be on three mission proposals. I know the PI for one of the comet sample return mission proposals and it is not A'Hearn. So maybe he is running another one?

SPRITE - Saturn Probe Interior and aTmosphere Explorer

A'Hearn wrote a piece about the bright future for small body exploration.  He said in the article that at least three groups are proposing comet sample return missions. So he's the source of information, not a PI

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #78 on: 05/08/2017 10:56 PM »

Can you remind me what SPRITE is?

Mike A'Hearn would not be on three mission proposals. I know the PI for one of the comet sample return mission proposals and it is not A'Hearn. So maybe he is running another one?

SPRITE - Saturn Probe Interior and aTmosphere Explorer

A'Hearn wrote a piece about the bright future for small body exploration.  He said in the article that at least three groups are proposing comet sample return missions. So he's the source of information, not a PI

Gotcha. I suspect I know some of the people involved in two of the groups.

Offline Star One

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Re: New Frontiers 4
« Reply #79 on: 06/01/2017 03:07 PM »
In light of the Venus proposal this seems applicable here.

Mystery of rare volcanoes on Venus

https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/news/archive/2017/title,1332305,en.php

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