Author Topic: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3  (Read 201969 times)

Offline Scylla

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #420 on: 08/22/2018 10:06 PM »
What it's like to fly the Boeing Starliner CST-100 Spaceship

Everyday Astronaut
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Online Chris Bergin

ARTICLE: NAC provides Starliner, Dragon 2 update – Commercial Crew preps entering final leg to launch -

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/08/nac-starliner-dragon-2-preps-final-leg-launch/

- By Michael Baylor

(Includes renders by Nathan Koga for NSF/L2)

Online jacqmans

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #422 on: 08/30/2018 12:34 PM »
Inside Boeing's Commercial Crew and Cargo Processing Facility at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida, NASA astronaut Eric Boe participates in the first full-up acceptance test of Boeing's CST-100 Starliner, on Aug. 22, 2018. The Starliner will be the first to fly astronauts on the company's Crew Flight Test (CFT), following environmental testing in El Segundo, California. Acceptance testing is a critical part of the spacecraft build progression. Generally, it gives the crew module a clean bill of health that it is built correctly, performs to expectations and is ready to fly.

Photo credit: Boeing

Offline HarryM

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #423 on: 08/30/2018 08:52 PM »
I thought it was more related to aerodynamic stability during an abort, but I could certainly be very wrong.
That's what I thought. They added a long skirt to the adapter section to protect the top of the 2nd stage from the shock. Maybe the perforated skirt on the SM would help with that also though.

Offline Scylla

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #424 on: 08/30/2018 09:18 PM »
I thought it was more related to aerodynamic stability during an abort, but I could certainly be very wrong.
That's what I thought. They added a long skirt to the adapter section to protect the top of the 2nd stage from the shock. Maybe the perforated skirt on the SM would help with that also though.
I'm sure it's been talked about on this forum someplace but can't find at the moment...so from Spaceflight Now in 2016.
https://spaceflightnow.com/2016/08/02/boeing-nears-fix-for-cst-100-starliner-design-hitch/

...Ferguson said Boeing has a model of the Atlas 5 rocket and CST-100 Starliner in a wind tunnel to verify a change to capsule’s outer shape devised to overcome higher-than-expected aerodynamic launch loads discovered in testing.

“They had one issue, a non-linear aerodynamic loads issue, where they were getting some high acoustic loads right behind the spacecraft,” said Phil McAlister, head of NASA’s commercial spaceflight development office in Washington.

Atlas 5 rockets carrying the Boeing crew ship will encounter different aerodynamic and acoustic environments than on normal satellite launches. The CST-100 Starliner will not fly inside a nose shroud on top of the Atlas 5, as other payloads do...
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline HarryM

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #425 on: 08/30/2018 10:04 PM »
Yes, that article specifically mentions the aft skirt as the fix for the aerodynamic loads on the booster:

“They think they’ve got a good solution by putting on an extended skirt behind the capsule. We think that’s a pretty good solution, too, but we really want to see some of that final wind tunnel test data come through.”

Here is another article that talks about it in some more detail:
http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/ula/aeroskirt-added-to-atlas-v-configuration-for-cst-100-starliner/

Last few posts on this page seem to nod toward abort stability for the perforated ring (but no links to a source).
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39244.0
« Last Edit: 08/30/2018 10:04 PM by HarryM »

Online russianhalo117

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #426 on: 08/30/2018 11:12 PM »
Yes, that article specifically mentions the aft skirt as the fix for the aerodynamic loads on the booster:

“They think they’ve got a good solution by putting on an extended skirt behind the capsule. We think that’s a pretty good solution, too, but we really want to see some of that final wind tunnel test data come through.”

Here is another article that talks about it in some more detail:
http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/ula/aeroskirt-added-to-atlas-v-configuration-for-cst-100-starliner/

Last few posts on this page seem to nod toward abort stability for the perforated ring (but no links to a source).
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39244.0
Reminds me of the aerodynamic solution developed for a payload that needed a larger fairing thus creating the Atlas SLV-3B Agena D.
« Last Edit: 08/30/2018 11:14 PM by russianhalo117 »

Offline woods170

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #427 on: 08/31/2018 07:52 AM »
Last few posts on this page seem to nod toward abort stability for the perforated ring (but no links to a source).
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39244.0

The perforated ring is primarily there for abort stability. Its function is more-or-less similar in nature to that of the grid fins used on the Soyuz fairing.
But additional testing last year and early this year has shown that in some extreme scenarios this might not be enough to prevent Starliner from tumbling during an atmospheric abort (as reported via ASAP).

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #428 on: 08/31/2018 10:09 AM »
I hope they put a “REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT” tag on that C clamp...
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline jbenton

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #429 on: 09/03/2018 09:45 PM »
Last few posts on this page seem to nod toward abort stability for the perforated ring (but no links to a source).
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39244.0

The perforated ring is primarily there for abort stability. Its function is more-or-less similar in nature to that of the grid fins used on the Soyuz fairing.
But additional testing last year and early this year has shown that in some extreme scenarios this might not be enough to prevent Starliner from tumbling during an atmospheric abort (as reported via ASAP).

How difficult/expensive would it be to have a proper in-flight abort test for Starliner (I know it was an optional requirement, but it still makes me uncomfortable)

My understanding is that part of it has to do with LV cost, but Orion is just using a Peacemaker 1st Stage. That's essentially free as government-furnished-equipment.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/04/nasas-jsc-getting-orion-simulator-key-test/

The configuration seems to me to be something easily configurable for Starliner: The Peacemaker is only 2.3m in diameter so they have an aft skirt extending from the bottom of Orion all the way down to Peacemaker's nozzle (and some kind of payload adapter) . Starliner being narrower would just use an aft-skirt similar to the one it's already using to protect Centaur during the launch of Atlas V.

They're also using a boilerplate/mass-simulator capsule that is as stripped-down from the real-deal as possible to save cost.

So I'm wondering:

1) How much of Starliner would they need just to test the LAS?
2) How much would it cost for Boeing/NASA? $100 million?
3) Can it be done in such a way as to not interfere with DM-1? (That's the uncrewed one, right?)
4) If they were to decide that this was necessary tomorrow and somehow acquired the necessary funds, when's the earliest that it could happen.

EDIT: 5) How much would this push back DM-2? (assuming nothing goes wrong with the in-flight abort test)
« Last Edit: 09/03/2018 09:50 PM by jbenton »

Offline woods170

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #430 on: 09/06/2018 01:09 PM »
From the recent HEO NAC meeting, progress on Starliner.

Offline Scylla

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #431 on: 09/06/2018 04:19 PM »
WATCH THIS SPACE  S1 • E3
NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine talks to Commercial Crew Astronauts
NASA

Published on Sep 6, 2018
During a recent visit to Johnson Space Center, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine sat down with astronauts Chris Ferguson and Sunita “Suni” Williams for an informal Q&A session about the Commercial Crew Program.

NASA's Commercial Crew Program has worked with several American aerospace industry companies to facilitate the development of U.S. human spaceflight systems since 2010. Both Ferguson and Williams were selected to fly on the Boeing CST-100 Starliner for the Commercial Crew Program – marking the first time that American astronauts will launch to the International Space Station from American soil on American-made spacecraft since the Space Shuttle Program ended in 2011.

To watch specific portions of the Q&A about the future of human space exploration, click a timestamp:
2:30 – Astronaut Chris Ferguson talks about what he has been doing since it was announced that he is a member of the Commercial Crew Program 
3:30 – Astronaut Chris Ferguson explains why his flight suit says Boeing and not NASA
4:27 – Astronaut Suni Williams talks about what a day in the life of an astronaut is like and what she has been up to since she was selected for the Commercial Crew program
6:30 – Astronaut Chris Ferguson talks about how the Starliner is different from the Space Shuttle
7:30 – Astronaut Suni Williams talks about how is the Starliner is similar to and different from the Soyuz
8:32 – Astronaut Chris Ferguson talks about how many people the Starliner will be able to carry to the International Space Station 
9:20 – Administrator Jim Bridenstine talks about the future of space exploration for NASA
10:58 – Astronaut Suni Williams talks about her previous spaceflights and how her Commercial Crew flight will be different
12:20 – Astronaut Suni Williams talks about their experience landing in space vehicles
15:20 – Administrator Jim Bridenstine and astronaut Chris Ferguson discuss thermal protection to keep astronauts safe
17:30 – Administrator Jim Bridenstine talks about the components of the Space Launch System and how it compares to technology for avionics
18:55 – Astronaut Chris Ferguson discusses how flying tests in the U.S. Navy prepared them for their upcoming missions
20:28 – Astronaut Chris Ferguson discusses what it’s like to dock the Starliner
21:30 – Astronaut Suni Williams talks about training, automation and providing input to Boeing about the Starliner
22:30 – Astronauts Chris Ferguson and Suni Williams talk about the team of individuals who make human spaceflight possible 
24:45 – Administrator Jim Bridenstine talks about the preparations that go into space exploration missions
25:46 – Administrator Jim Bridenstine talks about NASA’s launch capabilities
26:52 – Astronauts Chris Ferguson and Suni Williams provide guidance to Administrator Jim Bridenstine as he docks the Boeing Starliner simulator
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline woods170

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #432 on: 09/19/2018 10:03 AM »
Update on Starliner reuse and commercial opportunities:

https://spacenews.com/commercial-crew-providers-believe-they-now-meet-nasa-safety-requirements/

Quote from: Jeff Foust
Boeing plans to reuse its Starliner crew capsules from the beginning. Mulholland said the company has defined what inspections, tests and vehicle refurbishments will be needed for the capsule between flights, a process he said should take about four months.

That desire to reuse the capsule drove Boeing’s decision to land the spacecraft on land, at one of five selected locations in the western United States, rather than splashing down at sea. “For us, in our baseline, we need to land on land to support capsule reuse,” he said. Starliner does have the ability to splash down in an emergency, but “if we end up aborting and ditching into the ocean, then we wouldn’t reuse that capsule.”

Mulholland said a Boeing marketing team has been “actively engaged” with other countries and entities about potential commercial Starliner flights. However, he said the company is holding off on deals until the Starliners are flying for NASA. “I’ve been hesitant to sign anything, or for the company to sign up, until we actually go fly,” he said.

Offline TrevorMonty

This is good news for ULA, a few extra commercial Starliner flights a year would make all difference to ULA.

Offline Ike17055

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #434 on: 09/19/2018 08:24 PM »
John Mullholland stated a few weeks back that Starliner would be exploring different launch vehicles, presumably as part of the phase out of Atlas V.  in fact, Atlas V was announced from the start as the "test" vehicle launcher, and some speculation at the time had Starliner moving to Delta IV (no longer valid) or Falcon 9, with accompnaying rendreings appearing on this and other websites. 

Do we have any indication of what this exploration by Boeing might now look like, other than the obvious inference of Vulcan as a possible successor? Do we know if other specific launchers are on the table for consideration? Could Space X or Blue Origin make a compelling case to provide one of their existing systems to carry Boeing's space taxi? Since X-37B already has launched on Falcon 9, it would seem that Boeing has no issue with NASA utilizing a nominal competitor's booster any more than Apple does in utilizing Samsung screens for iPhone. What's the most logical outcome, with what we currently know?

Offline Star One

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #435 on: 09/19/2018 09:53 PM »
John Mullholland stated a few weeks back that Starliner would be exploring different launch vehicles, presumably as part of the phase out of Atlas V.  in fact, Atlas V was announced from the start as the "test" vehicle launcher, and some speculation at the time had Starliner moving to Delta IV (no longer valid) or Falcon 9, with accompnaying rendreings appearing on this and other websites. 

Do we have any indication of what this exploration by Boeing might now look like, other than the obvious inference of Vulcan as a possible successor? Do we know if other specific launchers are on the table for consideration? Could Space X or Blue Origin make a compelling case to provide one of their existing systems to carry Boeing's space taxi? Since X-37B already has launched on Falcon 9, it would seem that Boeing has no issue with NASA utilizing a nominal competitor's booster any more than Apple does in utilizing Samsung screens for iPhone. What's the most logical outcome, with what we currently know?

As it’s a Boeing built vehicle why would it be anything other than Vulcan, they are hardly going to give work to their biggest rivals.

Also what the X-37B launches on is not their choice but the Air Force.

Offline Ike17055

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #436 on: 09/20/2018 12:18 AM »
Uhhh...because Vulcan might never be built, is a pretty good reason. Otherwise, why would Mullholland even introduce the possibility of looking at other launchers?

Offline Ike17055

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #437 on: 09/20/2018 12:22 AM »
Boeing will also be engaged in a competitive environment for space tourism or related flight-for-hire efforts...meaning the ability to compete on launch costs with lower cost providers would be paramount over whether they fly on their own booster or not.

Offline yg1968

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #438 on: 09/20/2018 12:50 AM »
See below for an update:

2018 AIAA Space Forum: Commercial crew: The newest ride to LEO:
https://livestream.com/AIAAvideo/Space2018/videos/180468218

Offline Star One

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Re: Boeing's CST-100 - Master Updates and Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #439 on: 09/20/2018 08:23 AM »
Uhhh...because Vulcan might never be built, is a pretty good reason. Otherwise, why would Mullholland even introduce the possibility of looking at other launchers?

Other than the fact ULA are already fabricating parts of Vulcan.

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