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#40 by Nicolas PILLET on 03 Jan, 2016 11:15
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Why does it matter to you whether you can find a link to it on Rossiya 24? Surely you don't think Fortune would just make it up, do you?
I'm skeptical about the translation and interpretation Fortune made of the interview. That's why I'm searching for the source. It would not be the first case where the Russian claim and the Western translation and/or interpretation are slightly different.
To be clear : I don't "charge" Fortune not to be honnest. I just want to check it by myself. -
#41 by Star One on 03 Jan, 2016 14:42
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Sorry guys, but I don't understand this thread.
It's simple. Rogozin made a statement about SpaceX presenting a challenge to Russian space. How Russia will react is interesting to some people. Hence this thread. It is to discuss how Russia is reacting to SpaceX, in particular with respect to Rogozin's latest comments.1. I've searched for almost an hour, but I've not found any Rogozin interview on Rossiya 24 where he says this.
The very first post on this thread had a link to an article discussing the Rogozin quote on Fortune magazine's web site. I've seen it discussed on other news outlets. Why does it matter to you whether you can find a link to it on Rossiya 24? Surely you don't think Fortune would just make it up, do you? Why would they make up something and claim it was on Rossiya 24 when it would be so easy for Rossiya 24 to refute if it weren't true? And if it weren't true, surely Russia would have refuted it by now, no?2. Even if he said this, what is the problem ? He says that Musk is challenging Russia, which should go further in developping rocket technologies. Where is the arrogance, and where is the problem ?
What exactly are you replying to here? If you think someone on this thread said something specific that you disagree with, you should reply to that specific comment.
Other than the fact that the article in the OP is not the complete statement and therefore should in my view not be relied upon. Instead a later poster supplied the full quote which produced a different context than that in the OP. -
#42 by Danderman on 03 Jan, 2016 16:03
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The real question is when Russia will provide an alternative to Falcon.
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#43 by gospacex on 03 Jan, 2016 16:18
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I've noted many times that US news sources are inherently dismissive in their attitudes towards most all Russian political motives
You probably can't read native Russian press. Russian attitude towards US is several magnitudes worse.QuoteThe Russians have proven themselves a leader in space for decades. That leadership is not just the technical accomplishments, but the vision and dreams of it's people, and technology leadership.
What leadership?
They never reached Mercury or anything beyond Mars. Their Mars missions all weren't full successes - all landers failed, only two (IIRC) orbiters succeeded, last one in 1971. They can't even reach Mars now - last nine (!) attempts all failed.
Comsat market is owned by Western companies, not Russians. The reason is quite simple - Western sats routinely last for 15+ years, Russian sats often die before 5.
Russia did not ever launch sizable space telescopes. Its contribution to astrophysics via scientific spacecraft is minuscule. Compare with spacecraft from the West covering entire EM spectrum: HST, Chandra, Hipparcos, Gaia, Fermi, Hershel, WMAP, Planck, SOHO, Swift, Spitzer, XMM-Newton, COROT, Gravity Probe B...
What Russians do have are Soyuz (LV and capsule), Proton, and engine tech. That's not leadership in space in general. That's leadership in LVs and manned spaceflight. -
#44 by Svetoslav on 03 Jan, 2016 16:37
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Their last Mars orbiter was in 80s - Phobos program. It was 20 years ago.
A few years ago they launched a space telescope - Radioastron. Currently it's the largest space telescope. -
#45 by gospacex on 03 Jan, 2016 16:42
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Sorry guys, but I don't understand this thread.
1. I've searched for almost an hour, but I've not found any Rogozin interview on Rossiya 24 where he says this.
So far I found this:
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5683ba3c9a7947320104ea9b -
#46 by Rocket Science on 03 Jan, 2016 16:55
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While Mr. Rogozin is fixated on his toes, his head is about to get stomped on… Therein lies the crux of the problem… He just doesn’t get it…
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#47 by Stan-1967 on 03 Jan, 2016 17:05
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Sorry guys, but I don't understand this thread.
1. I've searched for almost an hour, but I've not found any Rogozin interview on Rossiya 24 where he says this.
2. Even if he said this, what is the problem ? He says that Musk is challenging Russia, which should go further in developping rocket technologies. Where is the arrogance, and where is the problem ?
Are you searching for controversy the most recent fortune article, which is not controversial as most here have agreed, as opposed to Rozogin's mockery earlier in the year ( April) that is the well deserved source of much disdain against him? His twitter account statements are the source of why he is not liked.
https://twitter.com/Rogozin/status/461137034292527104
He is unliked for his stabbs against the US relying on Russia for rides to the ISS and suggesting we build a trampoline to get there. ( Russian humor....meh)
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#48 by Nicolas PILLET on 03 Jan, 2016 17:22
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Is it so shocking for you that I want to check a source
Sorry, I will never do that again. Now I will believe avery thing I read on the Internet, without asking any question. -
#49 by Stan-1967 on 03 Jan, 2016 17:43
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I've noted many times that US news sources are inherently dismissive in their attitudes towards most all Russian political motives
You probably can't read native Russian press. Russian attitude towards US is several magnitudes worse.QuoteThe Russians have proven themselves a leader in space for decades. That leadership is not just the technical accomplishments, but the vision and dreams of it's people, and technology leadership.
What leadership?
They never reached Mercury or anything beyond Mars. Their Mars missions all weren't full successes - all landers failed, only two (IIRC) orbiters succeeded, last one in 1971. They can't even reach Mars now - last nine (!) attempts all failed.
Comsat market is owned by Western companies, not Russians. The reason is quite simple - Western sats routinely last for 15+ years, Russian sats often die before 5.
Russia did not ever launch sizable space telescopes. Its contribution to astrophysics via scientific spacecraft is minuscule. Compare with spacecraft from the West covering entire EM spectrum: HST, Chandra, Hipparcos, Gaia, Fermi, Hershel, WMAP, Planck, SOHO, Swift, Spitzer, XMM-Newton, COROT, Gravity Probe B...
What Russians do have are Soyuz (LV and capsule), Proton, and engine tech. That's not leadership in space in general. That's leadership in LVs and manned spaceflight.
I think you made my point for Russian leadership quite well. They absolutely are leaders in LV's and manned spaceflight. It's good to know we agree. I would also point out that whole "space race" thing. Who were we competing against, if not a potential equal at that time? Would the United States have accomplished what it has without the sharp edge of competition from the Soviet Union?
Does pointing out and showing admiration for the aspirations and accomplishments on non-US state actors give you some kind of insecurity or irritation over the accomplishments of NASA and the USA? Your post seemed insecure.
It does work like that for me. I have no problem weighing that NASA & the USA, if ranked in t's place as "most accomplished & special space powers", is the undisputed #1. GO USA YAY USA!
As a US citizen, I am proud to be a part of the culture that produce all of the observatories you listed. The planetary exploration programs enable by US mastery of high energy upper stage technology, as well as the development of EDL for exploration of planetary surfaces are some of the crown jewels that the USA, and all the other countries that contributed people or instruments for those missions can be proud of.
Bringing the topic back to Rozogin & Russia, I am hopeful the Russian's ambitions for space travel and accomplishments will continue in spite of political actors like him, or the tensions it brings between countries.
That is a concern I have for the USA's space program as well. The USA will not always have the ability to outspend the rest of the world combined on space activity. We will then have to rest our accomplishments on more than our financial dominance.
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#50 by Prober on 03 Jan, 2016 19:15
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The real question is when Russia will provide an alternative to Falcon.
well the Zenit could but that's an old wound
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#51 by Chris Bergin on 03 Jan, 2016 19:51
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Oh great. Just noticed this thread.
Goes without saying, you can take Mr, Rogozin's comments to task, but I don't want to see any anti-Russia comments anywhere on this site. We have a lot of Russian members here - very good people - and they don't deserve it. You don't see Russians on here posting "Those Americans are crazy with their "World Champions" for 'domestic league' Superbowl titles", in the middle of a post about what NASA is doing, do you.
Remember this is a globally used site. -
#52 by Pipcard on 04 Jan, 2016 02:27
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The real question is when Russia will provide an alternative to Falcon.
In the late 2000s, there was a plan to have a VTVL boost-back first stage as part of a launch vehicle called Rossiyanka. But they didn't go through with that. They also haven't seemed to go with the Baikal flyback booster either. -
#53 by russianhalo117 on 04 Jan, 2016 03:02
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Baikal is almost fully designed but internal funding had since to be diverted to cover cost of fixes on ISS RS Module MLM and repeated Proton and occasional Rockot failures. There are additional reasons but Ill leave that to someone else.The real question is when Russia will provide an alternative to Falcon.
In the late 2000s, there was a plan to have a VTVL boost-back first stage as part of a launch vehicle called Rossiyanka. But they didn't go through with that. They also haven't seemed to go with the Baikal flyback booster either.
